chances at some of the T20's Forum

[enigmabk]

graduated june 2011 with a b.s. in finance from a UG ranked in the 70's (US)


3.3 GPA (finance)
173 LSAT

Softs: By the time i matriculate I will have 2 years of full time work experience in the city attorneys office in the victim assistance department

Note: at my school, my major is curved to a 2.85 and I am in the top 25% of the graduating class, will the admissions people consider all this or even know about it? or am i at a huge disadvantage from my gpa?

the main schools i'm aiming for are NYU, U Chig, Columbia, UVA, NU , Michigan Penn, Duke, Cornell, Berkeley, UCLA, USC,

i figured im pretty much out at HYSC

[Br3v]

graduated june 2011 with a b.s. in finance from a UG ranked in the 70's (US)


3.3 GPA (finance)
173 LSAT

Softs: By the time i matriculate I will have 2 years of full time work experience in the city attorneys office in the victim assistance department

Note: at my school, my major is curved to a 2.85 and I am in the top 25% of the graduating class, will the admissions people consider all this or even know about it? or am i at a huge disadvantage from my gpa?

the main schools i'm aiming for are NYU, U Chig, Columbia, UVA, NU , Michigan Penn, Duke, Cornell, Berkeley, UCLA, USC,

i figured im pretty much out at HYSC

wait your gpa is curved down?

[minnbills]

First off, other than UCLA and USC, these schools are referred to as the "T14" here.

Check out this site: lawschoolnumbers.com it's the best source for gauging your chances, IMO.

Here would be my prediction:

NYU-out
UChig-out
Columbia-out
UVA- in w/ ED
NU in w/ ED
Michigan wl
Penn out
Duke out
Cornell wl/in
Berkeley probably out
UCLA wl/in
USC wl/in

California schools tend to emphasize a high GPA. Your T6 schools like NYU, COL, and UCHI will be out of reach with your GPA as well. The rest of the T14 are possibilities, though your best shot may well be an ED to NU or UVA.

EDIT: Saw the GPA thing, it might help a bit.

[enigmabk]

yes, the gpas are always curved to a fixed 2.85

[enigmabk]

First off, other than UCLA and USC, these schools are referred to as the "T14" here.

Check out this site: lawschoolnumbers.com it's the best source for gauging your chances, IMO.

Here would be my prediction:

NYU-out
UChig-out
Columbia-out
UVA- in w/ ED
NU in w/ ED
Michigan wl
Penn out
Duke out
Cornell wl/in
Berkeley probably out
UCLA wl/in
USC wl/in

California schools tend to emphasize a high GPA. Your T6 schools like NYU, COL, and UCHI will be out of reach with your GPA as well. The rest of the T14 are possibilities, though your best shot may well be an ED to NU or UVA.

EDIT: Saw the GPA thing, it might help a bit.

ouch, okay, thanks for the feedback

[minnbills]

ouch, okay, thanks for the feedback

Well, I would say you have very strong shot at NU or UVA if you ED.

[CanadianWolf]

With 2 years of full-time work experience & a 173 LSAT, anything is possible in what should be a year of decreased applications.

P.S. Northwestern loves splitters with work experience. If you apply and are accepted ED to Northwestern, there may be a substantial scholarship offered.

[enigmabk]

With 2 years of full-time work experience & a 173 LSAT, anything is possible in what should be a year of decreased applications.

P.S. Northwestern loves splitters with work experience. If you apply and are accepted ED to Northwestern, there may be a substantial scholarship offered.

how do you know that it should be a year of decreased applications?

thanks for the info about northwestern, i was hoping my work experience would help me out somewhat in the admissions process.

[freestallion]

With 2 years of full-time work experience & a 173 LSAT, anything is possible in what should be a year of decreased applications.

P.S. Northwestern loves splitters with work experience. If you apply and are accepted ED to Northwestern, there may be a substantial scholarship offered.

how do you know that it should be a year of decreased applications?

thanks for the info about northwestern, i was hoping my work experience would help me out somewhat in the admissions process.

Keep in mind that Northwestern's new ED policy means all those accepted get a FULL SCHOLARSHIP. So ED is actually more competitive. You could still apply and try but you may not get the scholarship. I think you will get in to Northwestern RD though.

[Hopefully2012]

ouch, okay, thanks for the feedback

Well, I would say you have very strong shot at NU or UVA if you ED.

No shot (maybe a tiny one) at NU ED because of the new full scholly policy... you may be accepted off of hold. You have a good shot at UVA ED.

[hdsoc]

I have nearly identical statistics with a little more work experience, and after way too many hours on this board/LSN/LSP, I've come to the conclusion that our stats put us on the fence for most of the T14 (minus HYS). Applying ED and generally applying super early (I have all my applications in w/ the exception of a safety school) are your best bets for getting off that fence.

My expectation for my cycle:

CCN- Out (maybe in off the waitlist at the very last minute). I'm EDing to one of them, so hopefully that will be helpful, but I'm not optimistic
MVP- 50/50 shot, w/ a better chance at michigan/UVA then Penn. EDing seems to make the difference here, as does being willing to ride out waitlists.
Duke/Berkeley - Out
Georgetown/NW/Cornell- Better than 50/50
I can't speak to cali schools since I'm not looking there, but conventional wisdom here is that they love their high GPAs

[enigmabk]

I have nearly identical statistics with a little more work experience, and after way too many hours on this board/LSN/LSP, I've come to the conclusion that our stats put us on the fence for most of the T14 (minus HYS). Applying ED and generally applying super early (I have all my applications in w/ the exception of a safety school) are your best bets for getting off that fence.

My expectation for my cycle:

CCN- Out (maybe in off the waitlist at the very last minute). I'm EDing to one of them, so hopefully that will be helpful, but I'm not optimistic
MVP- 50/50 shot, w/ a better chance at michigan/UVA then Penn. EDing seems to make the difference here, as does being willing to ride out waitlists.
Duke/Berkeley - Out
Georgetown/NW/Cornell- Better than 50/50
I can't speak to cali schools since I'm not looking there, but conventional wisdom here is that they love their high GPAs

im getting the impression that duke and Berkeley seem a lot harder to get into than their ranking suggests, is this because they are not splitter friendly/ gpa whores?

[CanadianWolf]

@Hopefully2012: On what do you base your statement that OP has "no shot at Northwestern ED" ? Thanks !

[hdsoc]

im getting the impression that duke and Berkeley seem a lot harder to get into than their ranking suggests, is this because they are not splitter friendly/ gpa whores?

That's my impression. Berkeley (along w/ UPenn) also seems to be more holistic in their approach, so maybe that's a place where softs might make a difference, I'm not sure.

If your feelings are T-14 or bust, your best bet would be EDing to NU or MVP. I have some locations concerns so I didn't go that route, but it seems like the safest option.

EDIT: Forgot about NU's new ED policy, definitely wouldn't ED there.

[enigmabk]

im getting the impression that duke and Berkeley seem a lot harder to get into than their ranking suggests, is this because they are not splitter friendly/ gpa whores?

That's my impression. Berkeley (along w/ UPenn) also seems to be more holistic in their approach, so maybe that's a place where softs might make a difference, I'm not sure.

If your feelings are T-14 or bust, your best bet would be EDing to NU or MVP. I have some locations concerns so I didn't go that route, but it seems like the safest option.

EDIT: Forgot about NU's new ED policy, definitely wouldn't ED there.

ah i see. im guessing that i don't really have a SURE shot anywhere with my stats, i do plan on raising that score because i'm only in 3 weeks of studying @ a 173. i do not think i have plateaued yet and am confident of boosting my LSAT to a 175-176.

but i guess my GPA Is pretty much a autoding at Berkeley or duke. its frustrating because i know a lot of schools curve their finance/bus departments to a 3.3 whereas my schools curve is set a lot lower =/

[Hopefully2012]

@Hopefully2012: On what do you base your statement that OP has "no shot at Northwestern ED" ? Thanks !

The general consensus in the NU thread is that to have a shot at ED to NU this year, you should have competitive numbers for CCN because of the guaranteed $150k scholarship. While a 3.3/173 splitter has a small chance at those schools, you're paddling against the tide imo.

Further, the dean of admissions at NU has said that he plans on using the same criteria in admissions this year vs last year. I took that to mean that if you want to be accepted ED this year, it means you have to possess the potential to have gotten a full ride at NU last year and I just don't see how a 3.3/173 could be competitive enough to warrant an ED admit under the new system.

LSN shows that the kind of people who got 150k at NU last year were ~75% on both GPA and LSAT (i.e. 172/3.82, 171/3.86, 172/3.88, 179/3.81, 174/3.86).

Edit: Added examples of the kinds of numbers that were awarded 150k last year.

[Richie Tenenbaum]

im getting the impression that duke and Berkeley seem a lot harder to get into than their ranking suggests, is this because they are not splitter friendly/ gpa whores?

That's my impression. Berkeley (along w/ UPenn) also seems to be more holistic in their approach, so maybe that's a place where softs might make a difference, I'm not sure.

If your feelings are T-14 or bust, your best bet would be EDing to NU or MVP. I have some locations concerns so I didn't go that route, but it seems like the safest option.

EDIT: Forgot about NU's new ED policy, definitely wouldn't ED there.

ah i see. im guessing that i don't really have a SURE shot anywhere with my stats, i do plan on raising that score because i'm only in 3 weeks of studying @ a 173. i do not think i have plateaued yet and am confident of boosting my LSAT to a 175-176.

but i guess my GPA Is pretty much a autoding at Berkeley or duke. its frustrating because i know a lot of schools curve their finance/bus departments to a 3.3 whereas my schools curve is set a lot lower =/

You need to write an addendum for your gpa. Schools need to be aware of the 2.85 curve. While that won't change what they can sumbit to us news, it should make you a little stronger of an applicant than your numbers would otherwise suggest.

[Hopefully2012]

@Hopefully2012: On what do you base your statement that OP has "no shot at Northwestern ED" ? Thanks !

The general consensus in the NU thread is that to have a shot at ED to NU this year, you should have competitive numbers for CCN because of the guaranteed $150k scholarship. While a 3.3/173 splitter has a small chance at those schools, you're paddling against the tide imo.

Further, the dean of admissions at NU has said that he plans on using the same criteria in admissions this year vs last year. I took that to mean that if you want to be accepted ED this year, it means you have to possess the potential to have gotten a full ride at NU last year and I just don't see how a 3.3/173 could be competitive enough to warrant an ED admit under the new system.

LSN shows that the kind of people who got 150k at NU last year were ~75% on both GPA and LSAT (i.e. 172/3.82, 171/3.86, 172/3.88, 179/3.81, 174/3.86).

Edit: Added examples of the kinds of numbers that were awarded 150k last year.

Don't think this has been covered but if OP is URM, that obviously changes things.

[CanadianWolf]

Did all 5 matriculate at Northwestern ?

[Hopefully2012]

No, it doesn't look like any of them did. I don't think that changes the criteria under which NU offers full rides or ED acceptances w/full rides this year.

[CanadianWolf]

It may. There aren't many 173+ LSAT scorers willing to attend law school outside of the Top Six (T-6). Northwestern wants to raise their LSAT median. To the best of my knowledge, a score of 173 exceeds NU's median.

[enigmabk]

[You need to write an addendum for your gpa. Schools need to be aware of the 2.85 curve. While that won't change what they can sumbit to us news, it should make you a little stronger of an applicant than your numbers would otherwise suggest]


i will keep that in mind, thank you

[enigmabk]

It may. There aren't many 173+ LSAT scorers willing to attend law school outside of the Top Six (T-6). Northwestern wants to raise their LSAT median. To the best of my knowledge, a score of 173 exceeds NU's median.