3.48 LSDAS GPA / 164 LSAT... Forum

[ThreeRivers]

3.48 GPA, 164 LSAT
I'm taking the October LSAT. My last 4 practice tests under STRICT conditions have all been 164. I'm really trying to bump that up a little / think I can (have only been studying this month, but have been over-the-top with preparing (10-12 hour days) / my LG's are horrible (doing really well in everything else). Anyways for the purpose of this I'll just state what I've been PTIng.

Softs:
Education / History Degrees

I'm in a really pathetic undergrad school (I won't lie). Its just a local smaller school down the road that just is a teacher making factory. Pretty much just a step up from community college.

Since my freshman year I have made all 4.0's (sadly my 2nd semester I was a wreck and made a 0.00, I'm really kicking myself for that). So I have the most insane "upward curve" one can imagine.

My extra activities are pretty weak / I just look like a normal college student (In a fraternity / "honors clubs / awards" they automatically give for good grades / history club, etc). I can put some stuff down, but nothing too impressive tbh


I'm planning to do the whole apply to some reaches, some 50/50 schools, and some "safe" schools / I'm alright with dropping a lot of money on applying (I figure it is a worth while investment if I get in somewhere I wasn't planning on). However, I have no clue what type of schools fit in all these categories for me....

If I end up with a 164 LSAT, what types of schools should I apply for? Where should I ED (I don't want to waste this on a school I won't get in / don't want to ED somewhere when i could get in better schools)? I'm from Pittsburgh.. should I be primarily interested in Pitt? I wouldn't mind living here, but wouldn't mind moving for a better job / more $ either.

[shastaca]

most of your information is on here already. The search is actually useful if not extensive.

Lawschoolpredicter and lawschoolnumbers are helpful places to start. The ABA guide has numbers if you like to crunch on such. TLS Useless News and the ABA Guide should have enough info for you to make a semi-informed choice of places you think you'd like to visit.

And as ever, with your GPA and a better LSAT you could go much better places or get much better money. It really is worth spending the time to improve your LSAT score. It pays short term and long term. Save the money from applying to so many schools and get to TestMasters or Powerscore or some such course that will truly give you the tools to do better on the test.

[ThreeRivers]

I just started crunching some of those numbers on various sites and was coming up with various results, I figured I'd try to post this to see the opinions of some actual humans on what I should be looking for. I'd really like to see what I can do this cycle / this LSAT. If I'm not happy I'll retake. I've gone through all the LG Bibles / am currently really drilling LG's. Based on my previous learning experiences I think a course would be kind of a waste of money for me. I usually am more effective when studying by myself (although I have been drilling 2 of my good friends who did really well on the LSAT).

[ThreeRivers]

On the Law school predictor.. some of these results came up:

First couple considers:
Washington-Missouri
George Washington
Minnesota
Illinois

First couple "Strong considers"
Maryland
American
Loyla
Connecticut

First couple "Admit"
Penn State
Case Western
Seton Hall
Pittsburgh

Could schools such as these translate into? :
considers = my "reaches"
strong considers = my 50/50
admits = safe

Or is this not an effective way to look into those titles?

[descartesb4thehorse]

Well, if your grades stay the same, I suppose it depends on what region you see yourself practicing in. With the info I have, I can really only add OSU to Pitt. Within ~3 hours of Pittsburgh, the only schools worth going to are probably Pitt, OSU, and WVU, but WVU will be a step down from Pitt and below what you're capable of. It also won't open a new market really. OSU will open Cleveland and Columbus, both of which are sort of in the vicinity of Pittsburgh. I wouldn't suggest any Philly schools, maybe Temple but it's not worth sticker for you. Philly's too oversaturated. I'd throw a few apps to the midwest T25 as reaches - Illinois, Indiana, ND, and maybe even WUSTL. You don't have a good shot at any of them unless you can get the LSAT up to or over 168, but hell, reaches are reaches. Other than that, my only advice is to check out the T30-T50, pick some places where you could see yourself living, and apply to as many as you see fit. The only ones I'd warn you off of are BYU and Wake.

Good luck! PM if you need any more help.

[bport hopeful]

Youd get money at Seton Hall, Pittsburgh, and CWRU

[descartesb4thehorse]

On the Law school predictor.. some of these results came up:

First couple considers:
Washington-Missouri
George Washington
Minnesota
Illinois

First couple "Strong considers"
Maryland
American
Loyla
Connecticut

First couple "Admit"
Penn State
Case Western
Seton Hall
Pittsburgh

Could schools such as these translate into? :
considers = my "reaches"
strong considers = my 50/50
admits = safe

Or is this not an effective way to look into those titles?

Well, strong consider definitely gives you more than a 50/50 shot. I'd say "weak consider" to be reaches - the school I'm attending (admittedly, after taking a deferral, but still with scholly $) is a "weak consider" for me. Consider-Strong consider are targets, and admits can be safeties. Hth.

[bport hopeful]

I got schollies at schools that I was a Deny at, so it really depends man. You gotta look around LSN some.

[Tiago Splitter]

When you get your LSAT, look hard at schools with a median LSAT of yours and below.

BTW, congrats on the Blutarsky-esque 2nd semester. Many have tried, few have succeeded.

[ThreeRivers]

When you get your LSAT, look hard at schools with a median LSAT of yours and below.

BTW, congrats on the Blutarsky-esque 2nd semester. Many have tried, few have succeeded.

Lol, thanks. I regret it every day... 3.9 LSDAS would be looking a lot better...

[ThreeRivers]

Well, if your grades stay the same, I suppose it depends on what region you see yourself practicing in. With the info I have, I can really only add OSU to Pitt. Within ~3 hours of Pittsburgh, the only schools worth going to are probably Pitt, OSU, and WVU, but WVU will be a step down from Pitt and below what you're capable of. It also won't open a new market really. OSU will open Cleveland and Columbus, both of which are sort of in the vicinity of Pittsburgh. I wouldn't suggest any Philly schools, maybe Temple but it's not worth sticker for you. Philly's too oversaturated. I'd throw a few apps to the midwest T25 as reaches - Illinois, Indiana, ND, and maybe even WUSTL. You don't have a good shot at any of them unless you can get the LSAT up to or over 168, but hell, reaches are reaches. Other than that, my only advice is to check out the T30-T50, pick some places where you could see yourself living, and apply to as many as you see fit. The only ones I'd warn you off of are BYU and Wake.

Good luck! PM if you need any more help.

That is actually funny you mentioned Ohio State.. that's a school I'm HIGHLY interested in, but wasn't sure if it was realistic for me.. would an ED help (even though their website claims it will not).

[HeavenWood]

I wouldn't suggest any Philly schools [...] Philly's too oversaturated

Funny you suggest Pittsburgh but write off Philly. Due to the much larger size of the Philadelphia legal market, Temple/Villanova grads actually place better in absolute terms than Pitt grads. In-state sticker at Temple is not at all a killer, and I think the OP has a decent shot at a scholly anyway. I also don't think OSU (especially w/OOS tuition) is a great choice if you want to end up in Pittsburgh.

[bport hopeful]

OP should definitely apply to Pitt and do it immediately. Their admission process takes a long ass time IMO. But if you get your shit in soon, youll get auto accepted and receive and auto scholly of 10k a year (but potentially as much as 14k per year). If youre in state thats even better.

34,000 in tuition
-14,000 scholly
-10,000 in state
$10,000 a year for a legal education to end up in the city you want to be in.

[HeavenWood]

OP should definitely apply to Pitt and do it immediately. Their admission process takes a long ass time IMO. But if you get your shit in soon, youll get auto accepted and receive and auto scholly of 10k a year (but potentially as much as 14k per year). If youre in state thats even better.

34,000 in tuition
-14,000 scholly
-10,000 in state
$10,000 for a legal education to end up in the city you want to be in.

This is credited as well.

[descartesb4thehorse]

I wouldn't suggest any Philly schools [...] Philly's too oversaturated

Funny you suggest Pittsburgh but write off Philly. Due to the much larger size of the Philadelphia legal market, Temple/Villanova grads actually place better in absolute terms than Pitt grads. In-state sticker at Temple is not at all a killer, and I think the OP has a decent shot at a scholly anyway. I also don't think OSU (especially w/OOS tuition) is a great choice if you want to end up in Pittsburgh.

Well, OP is from Pittsburgh, and Pitt is far and away the best school in the city. I also wouldn't write him off Penn if he got in. Of course, Penn degrees can travel and Pitt degrees can't. But I don't think many employers look too seriously on a Duquesne law degree, so you're not fighting grads from other schools too much for a place in the system. And I can't recommend Villanova after that hit to their ethics vis. reported data.

OP, you're at the 75th LSAT for OSU, which puts you in a really good place. Your GPA is above the 25th so I think a strong app gets you in with very little problems now, possibly even with $, but if you want to guarantee money, you'll need another couple of points on the LSAT. Good luck!

[bport hopeful]

Im under the impression that Ohio is just in the dumps right Now Legal market wise.

[HeavenWood]

I wouldn't suggest any Philly schools [...] Philly's too oversaturated

Funny you suggest Pittsburgh but write off Philly. Due to the much larger size of the Philadelphia legal market, Temple/Villanova grads actually place better in absolute terms than Pitt grads. In-state sticker at Temple is not at all a killer, and I think the OP has a decent shot at a scholly anyway. I also don't think OSU (especially w/OOS tuition) is a great choice if you want to end up in Pittsburgh.

Well, OP is from Pittsburgh, and Pitt is far and away the best school in the city. I also wouldn't write him off Penn if he got in. Of course, Penn degrees can travel and Pitt degrees can't. But I don't think many employers look too seriously on a Duquesne law degree, so you're not fighting grads from other schools too much for a place in the system. And I can't recommend Villanova after that hit to their ethics vis. reported data.

OP, you're at the 75th LSAT for OSU, which puts you in a really good place. Your GPA is above the 25th so I think a strong app gets you in with very little problems now, possibly even with $, but if you want to guarantee money, you'll need another couple of points on the LSAT. Good luck!

I agree Pitt is the best for Pittsburgh, but if he wants flexibility and doesn't mind the moderate hit in networking access, he could still get back to the 'Burgh with a Temple degree given his ties. I do agree that he should focus on one side of the state or the other, however.

I can almost promise you that the Villanova scandal won't affect local hiring whatsoever (old reputations die hard, and most of the big Philly firms are swarming with Villanova grads), but due to its steep price, I would be vary of Villanova anyway barring a good scholly offer.

[descartesb4thehorse]

Im under the impression that Ohio is just in the dumps right now legal market wise.

It's not great, but out of all of the law schools in Ohio, OSU is the only one that matters. Possibly Case brings up some kind of rear in Cleveland, but not really. OSU will still trump a Case degree in Cleveland. It's sort of like suggesting Pitt. If OP wanted to retake and try his hand at a T14, I wouldn't talk him out of it for Pitt or OSU. But with his stats and aspirations, he can do a lot worse than Pitt or OSU.

[bport hopeful]

Im under the impression that Ohio is just in the dumps right now legal market wise.

It's not great, but out of all of the law schools in Ohio, OSU is the only one that matters. Possibly Case brings up some kind of rear in Cleveland, but not really. OSU will still trump a Case degree in Cleveland. It's sort of like suggesting Pitt. If OP wanted to retake and try his hand at a T14, I wouldn't talk him out of it for Pitt or OSU. But with his stats and aspirations, he can do a lot worse than Pitt or OSU.

I mean, Im not dumping on either school, I just feel like Pitt is built into a market. Im not sure what the deal is with OSU, or Ohio in general, but I hear bad things (for whatever this is worth). I agree though that if OP wants Ohio, go to OSU over everywhere else.

FWIW, Pittsburgh is a nice place to live than anywhere in Ohio.

[descartesb4thehorse]

Im under the impression that Ohio is just in the dumps right now legal market wise.

It's not great, but out of all of the law schools in Ohio, OSU is the only one that matters. Possibly Case brings up some kind of rear in Cleveland, but not really. OSU will still trump a Case degree in Cleveland. It's sort of like suggesting Pitt. If OP wanted to retake and try his hand at a T14, I wouldn't talk him out of it for Pitt or OSU. But with his stats and aspirations, he can do a lot worse than Pitt or OSU.

I mean, Im not dumping on either school, I just feel like Pitt is built into a market. Im not sure what the deal is with OSU, or Ohio in general, but I hear bad things (for whatever this is worth). I agree though that if OP wants Ohio, go to OSU over everywhere else.

FWIW, Pittsburgh is a nice place to live than anywhere in Ohio.

I really like Pittsburgh, but I wouldn't say it's far and away better than Cleveland or Cincy. Different strokes.

[bport hopeful]

Cleveland makes my skin crawl. I thought it was pretty much consensus that Cleveland was a god awful city. No?

Not trying to offend. This is actually serious.

[HeavenWood]

Im under the impression that Ohio is just in the dumps right now legal market wise.

It's not great, but out of all of the law schools in Ohio, OSU is the only one that matters. Possibly Case brings up some kind of rear in Cleveland, but not really. OSU will still trump a Case degree in Cleveland. It's sort of like suggesting Pitt. If OP wanted to retake and try his hand at a T14, I wouldn't talk him out of it for Pitt or OSU. But with his stats and aspirations, he can do a lot worse than Pitt or OSU.

I mean, Im not dumping on either school, I just feel like Pitt is built into a market. Im not sure what the deal is with OSU, or Ohio in general, but I hear bad things (for whatever this is worth). I agree though that if OP wants Ohio, go to OSU over everywhere else.

FWIW, Pittsburgh is a nice place to live than anywhere in Ohio.

I really like Pittsburgh, but I wouldn't say it's far and away better than Cleveland or Cincy. Different strokes.

Haven't been to Cincy, but while I think Cleveland wins as far as its suburbs go (redacted), the city of Pittsburgh itself is in far better shape. The two cities are very similar on paper, but aesthetically and culturally speaking, Pittsburgh seems to be having a much easier time moving beyond its rustbelt roots.

Actually, I looked it up, and it's pretty much a push between Cuyahoga and Allegheny Counties in 1,000+ person municipalities with $30,000+ per capita incomes (Allegheny wins by one). Given the two counties' near-equal populations, this is a fair compariosn.

[Kabuo]

FWIW, Pittsburgh is a nice place to live than anywhere in Ohio.

First, Pitt is nice. Second, Columbus is the only city that is anything close to nice in OH. Cleveland used to be, but is now depressing. Toledo is like every bad thing about Detroit made worse. Cincy doesn't even feel like a city, just a bunch of connected developments around a festering downtown. Cincy locals go to KY when they want to go out, no lie.

[descartesb4thehorse]

My brother lived in Cleveland for a year. It may have just been his neighborhood, but I thought it was a really nice place to live. He had an apartment overlooking the river and there were a lot of really cute, independent cafes and shops in the area, reminded me of a smaller version of some of Chicago's better neighborhoods. I haven't spent much time in downtown though so I can't compare.

[HeavenWood]

My brother lived in Cleveland for a year. It may have just been his neighborhood, but I thought it was a really nice place to live. He had an apartment overlooking the river and there were a lot of really cute, independent cafes and shops in the area, reminded me of a smaller version of some of Chicago's better neighborhoods. I haven't spent much time in downtown though so I can't compare.

Cleveland definitely has its bright spots, but a much larger proportion of the city is objectively "blighted." Downtown Cleveland sucks, but so does Downtown Pittsburgh.