168 / 3.8 / Marine Corps (3 combat deployments) Forum

[meatball122]

Hey everyone

While I understand that LSAT/GPA is 99% of the equation, I feel like I have a pretty good "soft" background. How do you think my background and various factors will affect my apps? According to some admission articles on this site, the military, Teach for America, and Peace Corps as three influential soft factors. Also on the forum, Ive seen mixed feelings on the degree to which it helps as a soft.

Here is my deal:

Ive been in the Marine Corps for 5 years. Ive spent 16 months deployed (both Iraq and Afghanistan), and I am CURRENTLY deployed. Ultimately, I will have spent 22ish months deployed. I come back around Christmas, so I'll actually be submitting WHILE IN Afghanistan. I dont want to talk about what I do, for fear of lurking admission folks (because Im quite a rare breed, and I'll be easy to pinpoint). But suffice it to say that my job is VERY technical and sounds quite impressive to the untrained ear; it's in the military intelligence field. While in the Marine Corps, Ive held a variety of billets. I got promoted extraordinarily fast, and I have A LOT of leadership experience (with the LORs and awards to back it up).

-LSAT: 168 (irate about this) and 162 (I got my 162 after studying during my second deployment -- not ideal).
-GPA: 3.82
-Plain ole white dude
-Undergrad: One of the following, Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska, Ohio State, or Iowa
-Personal statement: Intend to write it about my experience in the Marine Corps: hard work but also balance; leadership roles and experience; etc...
-LORs: Honestly, I'll have one of the best academic LORs that you can imagine, plus two good military LORs

UNDERGRAD (2003-2007)
-Phi Beta Kappa
-Graduated "with distinction"
-Studied abroad throughout Europe (...all of it).

-----

So, what do you think? According to TLS' predictor:
Yale - deny
Harvard - deny
Stanford - weak
Columbia - weak
Chicago - weak
NYU - weak
Berk- consider
UPenn - consider
Mich - consider
Virginia - consider
Duke - consider
Northwestern - consider
Cornell - strong
Georgetown - consider
UCLA - strong
Texas - strong
Vandy - strong
USC - admit
... the rest are admits

Thanks everyone!!!

[rgndvo]

I don't think there is much institutionalized help for vets seeking to go to LS (as opposed to URM's). Your experience is certainly extraordinary and -- combined with good writing skills (which given the modern paucity of readers, are rare, even amongst smart people, so ask for help if you aren't a bonafide pro -- would thus make for a great essay. And I'm sure your LOR's are every bit as superlative as you say.

But ridiculous as it may be to characterize combat experience as a "soft", my honest guess is that it for purposes of admission it will just be considered a "great soft." I would advise re-writing the LSAT. Given your grades and stellar non-academic credentials, you are knocking on the T-14's door already; with a 170, you would be a lock at a T-14. A 172+, and you would have a legitimate shot at HYS, with a very good shot at CCNP.

Some schools averaged LSATs in the past, but this trend has faded fast since 2006. I think you should retake the test for a shot at the 170's.

[meatball122]

I think you should retake the test for a shot at the 170's.

I would love to, but Im in Afghanistan and will be for another 6-7 months!

I don't think there is much institutionalized help for vets seeking to go to LS (as opposed to URM's). Your experience is certainly extraordinary and -- combined with good writing skills (which given the modern paucity of readers, are rare, even amongst smart people, so ask for help if you aren't a bonafide pro -- would thus make for a great essay. And I'm sure your LOR's are every bit as superlative as you say.

But ridiculous as it may be to characterize combat experience as a "soft", my honest guess is that it for purposes of admission it will just be considered a "great soft." I would advise re-writing the LSAT. Given your grades and stellar non-academic credentials, you are knocking on the T-14's door already; with a 170, you would be a lock at a T-14. A 172+, and you would have a legitimate shot at HYS, with a very good shot at CCNP.

I have A LOT of time until apps are due, so I intend to use it wisely and dominate my PS, resume, etc.

Based on some research on this site, I feel like my military experience is +2ish on the LSAT. Thoughts?

[mattviphky]

i would think in with good money at the schools you mentioned you were interested in. if ur that interested in the midwest, i think nd would take you and give you good money, but u probably have a lot of benefits lined up anyway

[meatball122]

i would think in with good money at the schools you mentioned you were interested in. if ur that interested in the midwest, i think nd would take you and give you good money, but u probably have a lot of benefits lined up anyway

I just edited my initial post to indicate that one of those schools was my undergrad institution.

[Redfactor]

.

[eaglemuncher]

I can only really offer my personal experience, I know others have had a different results. I spent four years in the Marines two combat depolyments. Other than that I had virtually no softs. I felt that I either performed at or underperformed my numbers. I was waitlisted at three (I think) schools that I was an LSP strong consider and at one that was an admit. It bothered me at first, I thought military experience would have given a big bump, but for me it really wasn't the case. I still think military could be an x factor and my advice is to apply to quite a few schools. at least CCN and down and def at least a few outside T-14. Goof Luck to you

[03121202698008]

I'd be surprised if you're not in at Michigan, maybe with money. (Our schollys are stipulated so they pay for living expenses even after the GI Bill pays under the new rules that go into effect this year.) I was nearly your same numbers with military experience and a much worse undergrad (AMU). Emphasize your public service in the millitary and your maturity in your PS.

Anecdotally, I was waitlisted at Columbia, defered (withdrew) from Penn, and was admitted to G-town/Vandy.

[Paichka]

Have you considered taking the LSAT downrange? That's what a friend of mine did. It's pretty easy, all you need is someone who can be a proctor for you. I got permission from my command to go to Munich for 10 days on tdy to take mine, but if I'd known I could've taken it in Iraq, I would've done that instead -- much simpler. I'd really try to take it again and score in the 170s -- that will open more doors, especially given your awesome GPA.

Other than that, the advice you've received is spot on.

[03121202698008]

Have you considered taking the LSAT downrange? That's what a friend of mine did. It's pretty easy, all you need is someone who can be a proctor for you. I got permission from my command to go to Munich for 10 days on tdy to take mine, but if I'd known I could've taken it in Iraq, I would've done that instead -- much simpler. I'd really try to take it again and score in the 170s -- that will open more doors, especially given your awesome GPA.

Other than that, the advice you've received is spot on.

I took it on Balad but had to pay like $500 to establish a test site (to LSAC) and then had to order my own fingerprint ink and such on Amazon before the test. They my test got lost in the mail so my score was a month later than everyone elses.

[bjsesq]

Army ranger 2x vet with a combat jump into the Stan. Didn't mean shit for me. In everywhere I should have, waitlisted where my numbers said no.

[SemperLegal]

Your stats are almost identical to me, with a few small discrepancies in your softs. I got money a and acceptance from T10 down, with unfollowed through with waitlists at the rest. I don't see any reason why you would do any worse or better.

[meatball122]

.

[lawgod]

Awesome.
(Although, my friend at school was a Ranger, and that is far more awesome.)

[meatball122]

Awesome.
(Although, my friend at school was a Ranger, and that is far more awesome.)

What's awesome? My app and experiences? If so, hopefully HYSCCN agree!

[meatball122]

I would really like to end up in Chicago or Pennsylvania. Im thinking of going ED to UChicago, Penn or NW.

Chicago would be my top choice, but Im scared that it will be too much of a stretch. I dont want to "waste" my ED app on a school that is not realistic. Also, I feel as if I could get accepted to NW without going ED; so, again, I dont want to "waste" an app.

What do you all think?

Here are the LSN's for ED's:

Northwestern:
http://northwestern.lawschoolnumbers.co ... =3&type=jd

UofChicago
http://chicago.lawschoolnumbers.com/app ... =3&type=jd

Penn
http://penn.lawschoolnumbers.com/applic ... =3&type=jd

Re-posted from original post in same thread for convenience:

Ive been in the Marine Corps for 5 years. Ive spent 16 months deployed (both Iraq and Afghanistan), and I am CURRENTLY deployed. Ultimately, I will have spent 22ish months deployed. I come back around Christmas, so I'll actually be submitting WHILE IN Afghanistan. I dont want to talk about what I do, for fear of lurking admission folks (because Im quite a rare breed, and I'll be easy to pinpoint). But suffice it to say that my job is VERY technical and sounds quite impressive to the untrained ear; it's in the military intelligence field. While in the Marine Corps, Ive held a variety of billets. I got promoted extraordinarily fast, and I have A LOT of leadership experience (with the LORs and awards to back it up).

-LSAT: 168 (irate about this) and 162 (I got my 162 after studying during my second deployment -- not ideal).
-GPA: 3.82
-Plain ole white dude
-Undergrad: One of the following, Wisconsin, Illinois, Nebraska, Ohio State, or Iowa
-Personal statement: Intend to write it about my experience in the Marine Corps: hard work but also balance; leadership roles and experience; etc...
-LORs: Honestly, I'll have one of the best academic LORs that you can imagine, plus two good military LORs

UNDERGRAD (2003-2007)
-Phi Beta Kappa
-Graduated "with distinction"
-Studied abroad throughout Europe (...all of it).

[bilbobaggins]

I would be surprised if you didn't get into Boalt.

[lawgod]

Awesome.
(Although, my friend at school was a Ranger, and that is far more awesome.)

What's awesome? My app and experiences? If so, hopefully HYSCCN agree!

Yes, I do think your experiences are awesome. And app. And I also hope Y agrees.

[firemed]

My gut says that Northwestern may be a good shot for you.

[meatball122]

For ED or reg?

[Transferthrowaway]

Have you given thought to forgetting about law school, taking your GMAT, going to HWS, and being far more successful?

[IzziesGal]

PM me....I'm a former Marine turned law student with not nearly as impressive a sounding MOS as yours

[firemed]

For ED or reg?

Probably do reg and be successful, but ED would give you a better shot. Your choice.

[meatball122]

For ED or reg?

Probably do reg and be successful, but ED would give you a better shot. Your choice.

Just saw that on campus interview is required for ED. I'm sure that's waiverable, but I think I'll apply reg.

[meatball122]

Any thoughts on ED to Chicago with my stats and softs?

Would I be wasting an ED on a school that is too much of a reach?