3.89 / 170+ (projected) + advice needed Forum

[equestrian22]

Here's my situation:

Tier 1 Undergrad GPA: 3.82
Science
1 year work experience as a lab tech
1 year grad work at Notre Dame (will be entering my second year with Fall applications)
NSF Fellowship + 12k grant awarded this past year, hopefully 1-2 publications as well

Projected LSAC GPA (I took college courses in high school + my grad courses): 3.89 ish

LSATs - I'm fairly confident I can grab a 170 or so based on my practices
GRE: 1390 (I assume this matters not one bit)

I'm having serious doubts about continuing my grad work.. my options are the following: take LSATS in June - Oct 1 is out because of a wedding, and Oct. 4th seems like a terrible idea also because of the wedding or December (too late?) and apply in the Fall 2011 or stick out the program through the 3rd year for my masters.

As far as LOR are concerned - should I be aiming for 1 each from my undergrad and grad programs? Also, if I were to seek out a letter from my old job, would my manager (direct supervisor) or the boss/company owner be the best option? For my old job, my managers aren't the best spoken people I've ever come across, but I know I impressed the hell out of them. I wasn't as close to the boss/owner, but she really had encouraged me to pursue law school rather than grad school and I think would be happy to hear I'm pursuing that avenue. I believe I can leave my grad program and get a strong LOR from at least 1 of my 2 advisors. I can also get a strong rec from another prof whose research interests closely mirror my current work. My second advisor might be a bitter betsy though. Another tricky aspect is my advisor who I think would write me a strong rec letter is not in my department - does that kill me? I feel as though because I've found a lot of my own funding, they aren't going to be as peeved as they would be if they were supporting me off of their own grants.

Unfortunately, the project I'm on was misrepresented and I will have to shift my research aims more than I want to if I choose to continue.. and as I was split between pursuing environmental law and a PhD. in the first place, I'm at the point where I feel like sticking out the PhD. would not be fulfilling. I don't want to continue to waste my time or anyone else's time on a research project my heart is no longer in, but I don't want to be too hasty either. If anyone has been down this road leaving a program I'd love to hear your insight. I also simply am not enjoying South Bend - it's pleasant enough, but it just doesn't do it for me.

Also, though not a T14, if I could sit in on a law class and get to know profs from ND - would it be ridiculous to do that and perhaps get a letter of rec from one of them? I could potentially do that next semester.

I realize nothing here is hard and fast, but unfortunately it seems like this change will take extra advanced planning and considerations, so if anyone has been in a similar situation or knows someone who has, I'd love input.

[Veyron]

Projected, lol.

[bk1]

Projected, lol.

[Northeast]

I project that you will not get a 170+

[bhan87]

Come back with a real score, but regarding your other questions:

1. Either undergrad or grad LORs are fine as long as they are from people who can speak about your academic potential. If you've been working closely with a faculty member at your grad program, he/she will be a great choice for a letter.

2. Don't bother with sitting in on a class to elicit a letter. This is a terrible idea and will likely result in a mediocre letter. Stick to profs you already have a relation with

[barry]

just get a real lsat, you don't need a LOR from a law prof schools dont care they just care about LSAT/GPA, if you hit 170 you'll be looking at alot of T14 acceptance if you hit 165 --> ED at UVA

[equestrian22]

Thanks for the input on the rec letters and (not) sitting in on a class.

As far as the LSAT score is concerned, I suppose a big portion of what I'd like advice on is whether or not I should push forward and take it this June or ride out another 2 years to get my masters and wait until next year to take the LSAT.

[bk1]

Thanks for the input on the rec letters and (not) sitting in on a class.

As far as the LSAT score is concerned, I suppose a big portion of what I'd like advice on is whether or not I should push forward and take it this June or ride out another 2 years to get my masters and wait until next year to take the LSAT.

If you are planning on going the law school route, most masters degrees are not going to be helpful.

[paulinaporizkova]

I project that you will not get a 170+

i have no idea who you are but i loled at this post

[typ3]

Advice on where to apply?

156 IQ

Projected 51st President of the United States.

Thanks.

[skippy1]

Any coursework completed after your got your undergrad degree will not be counted towards your LSAC GPA. Grad school/WE is a small boost and it is not anywhere as important as GPA/LSAT.

[mpj_3050]

Dude I average 169 consistently and did not get close to a 169.

[paulinaporizkova]

Advice on where to apply?

156 IQ

Projected 51st President of the United States.

Thanks.

you don't even have to apply - schools will apply to you

[gdane]

LSATs - I'm fairly confident I can grab a 170 or so based on my practices.

This will help you get that projected 170:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... hilit=lsat

If you can decipher it, youre already one step ahead of your fellow LSAT takers.

[BlakcMajikc]

Dude I average 169 consistently and did not get close to a 169.

I averaged 168 consistently and got a 170...
What else do you want someone to do who wants advice, but take practice tests and predict their score before they have take the real thing?

To answer some of the questions... the post was too long to catch everything:
December is too late.
Get the best LORs you can from the people that know you (grad or undergrad)

As for the environmental law thing. I asked an attorney about this recently actually. It would be helpful to have a Phd. MS also useful, but not as much obviously. I would ask attorneys/professors/consultants and others in the environmental law profession to see the best route to take.

[niederbomb]

Plenty of people who average 170 on PT's score in the low 160's on the real thing.

If you're going to ask these questions before you get an actual LSAT, you need to practice taking a few PT's drunk or on no sleep to get an accurate picture of how you would do on the real thing. It's really that bad on test day.

[Kretzy]

To be less dickish than folks above (though I'm anomalous):

You'd be my numbers-twin. WL at HLS, WL-in at YLS, in at Stanford on down.

[TheFactor]

Plenty of people who average 170 on PT's score in the low 160's on the real thing.

If you're going to ask these questions before you get an actual LSAT, you need to practice taking a few PT's drunk or on no sleep to get an accurate picture of how you would do on the real thing. It's really that bad on test day.

lol if you have severe anxiety problems it might be that bad...otherwise it's not even close

[niederbomb]

Plenty of people who average 170 on PT's score in the low 160's on the real thing.

If you're going to ask these questions before you get an actual LSAT, you need to practice taking a few PT's drunk or on no sleep to get an accurate picture of how you would do on the real thing. It's really that bad on test day.

lol if you have severe anxiety problems it might be that bad...otherwise it's not even close

Well, even if you don't think you have severe anxiety (I thought I only had moderate, manageable anxiety), LSAT conditions and high-stakes, high detail questions like LR and logic games magnify whatever anxiety you do have far more than other situations and tests do.

Take a look at the LSAT board. It seems as if at least half the first-time takers on any administration are shocked with their (horrible) results.

[TheFactor]

Plenty of people who average 170 on PT's score in the low 160's on the real thing.

If you're going to ask these questions before you get an actual LSAT, you need to practice taking a few PT's drunk or on no sleep to get an accurate picture of how you would do on the real thing. It's really that bad on test day.

lol if you have severe anxiety problems it might be that bad...otherwise it's not even close

Well, even if you don't think you have severe anxiety (I thought I only had moderate, manageable anxiety), LSAT conditions and high-stakes, high detail questions like LR and logic games magnify whatever anxiety you do have far more than other situations and tests do.

Take a look at the LSAT board. It seems as if at least half the first-time takers on any administration are shocked with their (horrible) results.

not saying the real thing isn't harder than practice tests, but saying it's equivalent to taking a test drunk is pretty silly