American doing undergrad in the UK Forum

rsteele2379 · Post by **rsteele2379** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 11:46 am

I decided to pursue my undergrad in the UK and am currently on track for a high 2:1 or first depending on a couple factors(people who im addressing this question to will know what that means). Now i was wondering if anyone has applied to a law school in the US and how the degree classification is translated into GPA for schools?

I have yet to take the LSAT's due to the fact that I spend most of my time over in the UK and have to go to london to take them.

The last question is pertaining to the previous statement; what LSAT scote should I need to get into a top int. law programme(ie American U, GWU, Georgetown, UVA)????

any help on this matter would be greatly appreciated!!!!!

ATR · Post by **ATR** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 3:12 pm

rsteele2379 wrote:top int. law programme

This should go well.

OP, shoot for a 170+ on the LSAT. Also, specialty rankings mean nothing; be concerned with USNWR rankings.

pokerlaw · Post by **pokerlaw** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 4:33 pm

Credential Assembly Service rates your degree on a scale of Superior, Above Average, Average, etc...

First = Superior
2:1 = Above average

More weight will be placed on your LSAT because you don't have a GPA to contribute to class profile.

rsteele2379 · Post by **rsteele2379** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 6:43 pm

Fair enough. Thanks for the replies.

Just wondering why it is that specialty rankings shouldn't be paid attention to? I ask this because the whole reason I want to go to law school is to do international law. So take, for example, American university; they are pretty far outside the top-20 on most lists, however, for international law they have quite a good program. Also, their joint degree program (with the school of international service) is very well regarded.

So I guess the real question in this is with those factors considered do you think I would be best only considering on those schools with strong int. Law prospects?

(p.s. I've been outside the us for a long time and as such do not really have the pulse of law school acceptances and the general culture of how and what to do to get into law school so I apologise for any missteps that I may make on this forum)

ATR · Post by **ATR** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:37 pm

rsteele2379 wrote:Just wondering why it is that specialty rankings shouldn't be paid attention to?

Simply because they don't matter when it comes to getting a job, which is what you should be worried about.

Nicholasnickynic · Post by **Nicholasnickynic** » Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:55 pm

rsteele2379 wrote:Fair enough. Thanks for the replies.

Just wondering why it is that specialty rankings shouldn't be paid attention to? I ask this because the whole reason I want to go to law school is to do international law. So take, for example, American university; they are pretty far outside the top-20 on most lists, however, for international law they have quite a good program. Also, their joint degree program (with the school of international service) is very well regarded.

So I guess the real question in this is with those factors considered do you think I would be best only considering on those schools with strong int. Law prospects?

(p.s. I've been outside the us for a long time and as such do not really have the pulse of law school acceptances and the general culture of how and what to do to get into law school so I apologise for any missteps that I may make on this forum)

don't go to law school.

rsteele2379 · Post by **rsteele2379** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 8:16 am

I do hear what your saying. I am split at the moment between doing a Ph.D in IR or getting a JD. The fact is that a large part of me wants to do both. However, deep down inside I know that the employment prospects are far better with a JD and thus law school seems the more viable route. As far as International Law goes that is what I think I want to do and I understand where you guys are coming from in the sense that it doesnt matter about specializations for post-law school employment. the truth is that I want to do interntional law but dont really see a future in it (realistically atleast) and thus....

I will repharse the question. what will it take for someone with my grades to get into a school such as Georetown , UVA, American or George Washington? Will my doing undergrad abroad help or hinder my chances? what are the odds of being able to be accepted into a dual JD/MA program at these schools???

pokerlaw · Post by **pokerlaw** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:36 am

rsteele2379 wrote: I will repharse the question. what will it take for someone with my grades to get into a school such as Georetown , UVA, American or George Washington? Will my doing undergrad abroad help or hinder my chances? what are the odds of being able to be accepted into a dual JD/MA program at these schools???

International degree doesn't give you a significant boost nor does it hurt you. Since the credential assembly service doesn't give you a U.S. GPA, more emphasis is placed on your LSAT score.

Without an LSAT score, nobody can give you odds.

dissonance1848 · Post by **dissonance1848** » Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:38 am

You are in heaven, OP. Just kill the LSAT. Get a 173+, and you only need to apply to NYU an up.

rsteele2379 · Post by **rsteele2379** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:31 am

Ill be in the states for the summer doing an internship so I was just wondering would taking night prep classes help with LSAT revision, or, does using one of the study guides work just as well?

RackBall · Post by **RackBall** » Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:00 am

Where did you do your undergrad?

Obviously the Oxbridge will be recognized universally. And treated as the leaders that they are...

I found that St. Andrews, Edinburgh, UCL, Kings, Imperial are recognized largely within T1 and more "national" T2 schools.

Fantastic British schools that are not well recognized on this side of the pond are the Durhams, the Bristols, etc. It just won't help you or hinder you.

PM me if you want more advice --> I did my undergrad at St. Andrews.

ams · Post by **ams** » Sun Mar 20, 2011 7:39 pm

OP, I think you can get by with self-studying. Reviews are mixed but I took a class and didn't find it to be particularly helpful. I self-studied and spent a few hours with a private tutor, which was actually cheaper than paying for a class. I'd suggest starting with the power score bibles.

chasgoose · Post by **chasgoose** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:29 am

rsteele2379 wrote:I do hear what your saying. I am split at the moment between doing a Ph.D in IR or getting a JD. The fact is that a large part of me wants to do both. However, deep down inside I know that the employment prospects are far better with a JD and thus law school seems the more viable route. As far as International Law goes that is what I think I want to do and I understand where you guys are coming from in the sense that it doesnt matter about specializations for post-law school employment. the truth is that I want to do interntional law but dont really see a future in it (realistically atleast) and thus....

I will repharse the question. what will it take for someone with my grades to get into a school such as Georetown , UVA, American or George Washington? Will my doing undergrad abroad help or hinder my chances? what are the odds of being able to be accepted into a dual JD/MA program at these schools???

People are responding this way to you because there is no such thing as "international law." It's a phrase designed to manipulate 0L's. There are very few jobs out there that truly allow someone to practice what most people imagine when they think about international law and no law school (even HYS) would guarantee that you get one of them. Furthermore, the specialty rankings are total BS. Law school doesn't really prepare you for an actual career in law (I know it's dumb, but true) and thus it doesn't matter that your law school has really good professors or whatever in "international law". Even if a law school offers a bunch of "international law" courses that will mean nothing to potential employers. If you want one of those unicorn-esque "international law" jobs I mentioned earlier, you should go to the best possible school you can get into (and then, most people only get those jobs because of 2nd language skills) because that will help you get that job a lot more than a bunch of BS courses at American.

To answer your original question, HYSCCN are the only way you are probably going to get even close to an international law job so you should aim for a 173+ since your grades probably won't translate v. well.

stratocophic · Post by **stratocophic** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:49 am

rsteele2379 wrote:I do hear what your saying. I am split at the moment between doing a Ph.D in IR or getting a JD. The fact is that a large part of me wants to do both. However, deep down inside I know that the employment prospects are far better with a JD and thus law school seems the more viable route. As far as International Law goes that is what I think I want to do and I understand where you guys are coming from in the sense that it doesnt matter about specializations for post-law school employment. the truth is that I want to do interntional law but dont really see a future in it (realistically atleast) and thus....

I will repharse the question. what will it take for someone with my grades to get into a school such as Georetown , UVA, American or George Washington? Will my doing undergrad abroad help or hinder my chances? what are the odds of being able to be accepted into a dual JD/MA program at these schools???

Job prospects with a JD border on horrific. Job prospects for int'l law are even uglier.

rsteele2379 · Post by **rsteele2379** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:23 am

Again I understand the chimera like properties of int. law and the pragmatist in me realizes that this is probably not the best route to take. The only thing that I find strange is that it seems to be all blindly about the highest ranked school. now, maybe I've been in Europe too long and have forgot that competetive nature, but, surely as long as you get into a t20 school and finish in the top 20% of your class you are very employable.

Though hearing these comments is helpful in that now I know not to focus on the specialties and go for the best school possible. Thanks for the advice.

Curry · Post by **Curry** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:58 am

80% of people don't finish in the top 20% of their class

piccolittle · Post by **piccolittle** » Wed Mar 23, 2011 9:08 am

OP, I suggest you do more research on the site. There are plenty of UK students applying this cycle, and I'll direct you to this thread in particular: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=130045

Feel free to PM me if you have any particular questions, but basically the general advice you've gotten here is correct.

1) Kill the LSAT
2) Apply to the schools that place best in the geographical area(s) you want to practice (if not HYSCCN)

Are you not interested in practicing in England? You could apply for your training contract if you are in your last year at uni. Keep your marks at high 2:1/first if possible, and explore that option as well. It's certainly less expensive, though arguably more competitive.

Let me know if you have any other questions (by PM).

rsteele2379 · Post by **rsteele2379** » Sat Mar 26, 2011 3:34 pm

NOOOOO. I have no desire to remain in the UK to do any sort of law degree here. With living costs, combined with the cost of a conversion course, it would be only relatively cheaper than going to law school stateside. PLus, I would then have to do more postgrad stuff if I want to practice in the US. Not worth it and would inevitably have to go through the farcical immigration system that one finds over here.

a few more questions....
1. will doing IR as an undergraduate help in acceptance?
2. will part-time work look favourable?
3. how much will interning for a congressman help?
4. 166 on my first practice lsat...where does that put me?
......with all of these things what are my chances at a UVa, GULC, GW?????

again sorry for the rather rudimentary questions but as mentioned previously i have been disconnected from the whole US system for a while now and need help to see what it is that I need to do....

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