3.0/164 is it possible to attend..... Forum

[mpn83]

Ok Im looking to apply to Cornell, WUSTL, Northwestern and a few other safeties. I was wondering what are my chances with a 3.0 gpa and 164 LSAT. Im African American, the only work experience that i have is 5 yrs military. some softs are im a first generation college graduate, and i have some extra curricula's. Can anyone tell me my chances, or give me advice where to apply? Thanks in advance.

[CanadianWolf]

I think that your chances at WashUStL are very good, somewhat less at Cornell & not good at Northwestern--but African-American males are a group of their own. Hope to read of your results. to answer your posted question, yes it is possible, but not certain of the probability. Apply & see.

[005618502]

hmm those numbers are not even remotely close to Cornell or NU or any T14 for that matter. WUSTL might be possible purely because of AA but who knows.

Apply broadly and see where you get hits, or re-take the LSAT

[mpn83]

Thanks, i will definitely apply to as many schools as possible, and im even considering taking the LSAT over. Whats a good LSAT to be competitive @ Northwestern?

[ksimon2007]

Thanks, i will definitely apply to as many schools as possible, and im even considering taking the LSAT over. Whats a good LSAT to be competitive @ Northwestern?

Your gpa seems to be a little low, but a 164 among African Americans is at the very top. You are not a longshot for NW in my opinion. Keep soliciting thoughts, but I think with a well put together application you will hear good things...

[ksimon2007]

Thanks, i will definitely apply to as many schools as possible, and im even considering taking the LSAT over. Whats a good LSAT to be competitive @ Northwestern?

Here is some perspective offered by total litigator to me a while ago which certainly is helpful for you

"You can think of your LSAT in terms of percentiles. I'm guessing a 158 is just above the 90th percentile for AA, lets say 92nd percentile. In terms of all test takers, 92nd percentile is about a 164/165. Because that logic isn't perfect, and your GPA should get a URM boost (but not as much as the LSAT boost) I would say you have a good shot at W&M & W&L. UVA is one heck of a long shot. Remember to apply for fee waivers though, as you should be a shoe in for fee waivers at most schools."

[miracle2011]

look at my LSN, 3.0 and 164/AA male can definitely get into some higher schools.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/miracle2011

[Kabuo]

I'm pretty sure NU would love you with 5 years military, AA, and a 164. They're splitter friendly for WE, and as an AA male, I'm pretty sure your LSAT counts as almost splitter territory. I would definitely apply to NU and make sure to get someone above you in the military to fill out the CPE or w\e they use instead of LORs. Not sure how good a shot you have at Cornell with that GPA, even as AA, but NU is > for job prospects anyway. You are looking good for WUSTL though. As for safeties, apply to the strong regionals in the region you want to practice and maybe get some $$$ from them.

[mpn83]

look at my LSN, 3.0 and 164/AA male can definitely get into some higher schools.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/miracle2011

Those are some impressive schools you have been accepted to, did you have any other soft factors in your application?

[miracle2011]

I have a lot of community service in Asia and Latin America and a lot of public interest fellowships from my Ivy undergrad. I am also a 1st generation college student so I think that helped too. Georgetown said that I had a terrific personal statement and I believe that I had strong LOR's from professors and individuals who know my involvement with marginalized communities.

[09042014]

I'm pretty sure NU would love you with 5 years military, AA, and a 164. They're splitter friendly for WE, and as an AA male, I'm pretty sure your LSAT counts as almost splitter territory. I would definitely apply to NU and make sure to get someone above you in the military to fill out the CPE or w\e they use instead of LORs. Not sure how good a shot you have at Cornell with that GPA, even as AA, but NU is > for job prospects anyway. You are looking good for WUSTL though. As for safeties, apply to the strong regionals in the region you want to practice and maybe get some $$$ from them.

That LSAT is probably too low for NU. It's worth a shot but I wouldn't get your hopes up.

[005618502]

I have a lot of community service in Asia and Latin America and a lot of public interest fellowships from my Ivy undergrad. I am also a 1st generation college student so I think that helped too. Georgetown said that I had a terrific personal statement and I believe that I had strong LOR's from professors and individuals who know my involvement with marginalized communities.

I love how every phone interviewer says this!

You got into some crazy good schools for your numbers, i am absolutely shocked. Congrats.

OP, dont expect this. These results are not ordinary.

[SupraVln180]

it seems that T14's are more forgiving of low LSATs for URMs, rather than low GPA's. For instance an AA 4.0/160 would have way better chances at the T14 than a 3.0/164. However, you do have a shot at the T14, so apply broadly and hope some of these schools like your story.

[005618502]

it seems that T14's are more forgiving of low LSATs for URMs, rather than low GPA's. For instance an AA 4.0/160 would have way better chances at the T14 than a 3.0/164. However, you do have a shot at the T14, so apply broadly and hope some of these schools like your story.

This is hillarous you take off 1.0 on the GPA and only give 4 to the LSAT. nice

[kkklick]

it seems that T14's are more forgiving of low LSATs for URMs, rather than low GPA's. For instance an AA 4.0/160 would have way better chances at the T14 than a 3.0/164. However, you do have a shot at the T14, so apply broadly and hope some of these schools like your story.

This is hillarous you take off 1.0 on the GPA and only give 4 to the LSAT. nice

I was about to say that, to make it a fair comparison the numbers should be 4.0 (90%)/160(80%) and 3.7(80%)/164(90%). Even so this calculation means nothing.

[3ThrowAway99]

hmm those numbers are not even remotely close to Cornell or NU or any T14 for that matter. WUSTL might be possible purely because of AA but who knows.

Apply broadly and see where you get hits, or re-take the LSAT

Well.. I think I stand corrected.. This seemed to be a real overstatement, but at least according to Law School Predictor all T14 is deny. I think it is probably the low GPA that really does it. I wouldn't be surprised though if you did get lower T14 with your numbers given the particular boost you will get within URM category (from what I have read African Americans get a larger boost than most URMs, and Law School predictor doesn't account for this where you can only check yes or no to URM). But obviously I don't think you can at all count on a T14 admit.

[005618502]

hmm those numbers are not even remotely close to Cornell or NU or any T14 for that matter. WUSTL might be possible purely because of AA but who knows.

Apply broadly and see where you get hits, or re-take the LSAT

Well.. I think I stand corrected.. This seemed to be a real overstatement, but at least according to Law School Predictor all T14 is deny. I think it is probably the low GPA that really does it. I wouldn't be surprised though if you did get lower T14 with your numbers given the particular boost you will get within URM category (from what I have read African Americans get a larger boost than most URMs, and Law School predictor doesn't account for this where you can only check yes or no to URM). But obviously I don't think you can at all count on a T14 admit.

Wrong

[3ThrowAway99]

3.5 with same LSAT (164) starts getting considers with the URM status according to LSP (again, it prob doesn't fully account for your particular URM sub-category, so where it says consider it may actually be strong consider etc).

Same GPA (3.0) with 169 LSAT starts getting T14 considers with the URM status. So at least in this case it seems that .5 GPA is valued the same as 5 LSAT points relative to the baseline scores.

[3ThrowAway99]

hmm those numbers are not even remotely close to Cornell or NU or any T14 for that matter. WUSTL might be possible purely because of AA but who knows.

Apply broadly and see where you get hits, or re-take the LSAT

Well.. I think I stand corrected.. This seemed to be a real overstatement, but at least according to Law School Predictor all T14 is deny. I think it is probably the low GPA that really does it. I wouldn't be surprised though if you did get lower T14 with your numbers given the particular boost you will get within URM category (from what I have read African Americans get a larger boost than most URMs, and Law School predictor doesn't account for this where you can only check yes or no to URM). But obviously I don't think you can at all count on a T14 admit.

Wrong

Wrong that I stand corrected lol? In other words I was right in the first place by saying you overstated your case? Or wrong that African Americans get a boost beyond the typical URM? If the latter, what is the basis of your argument with the many other posts on here that African Americans do get boost beyond typical URM? Also, in the first place, what are you backing up your confidence that OP has absolutely no shot at T14 with? Or wrong that I wouldn't be surprised if OP got into T14 (sorry but I don't think you know me that well)?

To be fair, the stand corrected part was in regard to an initial post I made claiming you had greatly overstated your case; that initial post isn't on the record now. I still think you overstated your case (and that this is supported by some of the other more moderate responses and actual results history in this thread), but I don't think you're as far off base as I initially thought.

[005618502]

hmm those numbers are not even remotely close to Cornell or NU or any T14 for that matter. WUSTL might be possible purely because of AA but who knows.

Apply broadly and see where you get hits, or re-take the LSAT

Well.. I think I stand corrected.. This seemed to be a real overstatement, but at least according to Law School Predictor all T14 is deny. I think it is probably the low GPA that really does it. I wouldn't be surprised though if you did get lower T14 with your numbers given the particular boost you will get within URM category (from what I have read African Americans get a larger boost than most URMs, and Law School predictor doesn't account for this where you can only check yes or no to URM). But obviously I don't think you can at all count on a T14 admit.

Wrong

Wrong that I stand corrected lol? In other words I was right in the first place by saying you overstated your case? Or wrong that African Americans get a boost beyond the typical URM? If the latter, what is the basis of your argument with the many other posts on here that African Americans do get boost beyond typical URM? Also, in the first place, what are you backing up your confidence that OP has absolutely no shot at T14 with? Or wrong that I wouldn't be surprised if OP got into T14 (sorry but I don't think you know me that well)?

To be fair, the stand corrected part was in regard to an initial post I made claiming you had greatly overstated your case; that initial post isn't on the record now. I still think you overstated your case (and that this is supported by some of the other more moderate responses and actual results history in this thread), but I don't think you're as far off base as I initially thought.

I am saying that I dont think OP has a shot at HYSCCNMVPB, and probably not at the lower T14 either simply because of a 3.0 GPA and unimpressive LSAT. Yes you are correct that being black gives him a boost, the second highest boost (second to NA with tribal card) and it will help ALOT, thats why i think the 18-25 range is possible, because realistically based purely on numbers (if people didnt care about the color of ones skin) it would be a TTT.

Now the thing we have to account for is what LS admins are looking for, and how many AA apps they have had so far, the less they have had the better his odds.

[BruceWayne]

OP I GUARANTEE you that you have a very high shot at UVA ED. You might not even need ED with the way that UVA loves military service. PM me if you want details; Frankly, you can probably get into one of Columbia, NYU, or Chicago too. I might go so far as to say that you're autoadmit at NU. At the very least you'll end up at a top 14. I would completely forget about WUSTL.

Don't discount military WE; the truth is that it may be the most helpful type of WE for law school admissions.

[miracle2011]

I disagree, if OP applies early and has a good personal statement and solid LORs OP has a shot.

I have gotten into UCLA, Georgetown, Cornell and Upenn so far with a 3.0/162. Do not underestimate the URM boost for AA males.

[BruceWayne]

I disagree, if OP applies early and has a good personal statement and solid LORs OP has a shot.

I have gotten into UCLA, Georgetown, Cornell and Upenn so far with a 3.0/162. Do not underestimate the URM boost for AA males.

+10000 Not to be mean but a lot of people giving answers to OP's question don't know what they're talking about. They mean well but it's best if the OP questions other AA males about this.

[pattonthicke]

Do not underestimate the URM boost for AA males.

This is very much correct but I would like to point out that your Ivy undergrad probably played a role in your acceptances. While it does not matter too much for others, there seems to be a big boost for AA's who have attended ivy undergrads. That said, OP should apply to all of T14 oustside of HYS as I am willing to bet on at least 1 acceptance.

[BruceWayne]

Do not underestimate the URM boost for AA males.

This is very much correct but I would like to point out that your Ivy undergrad probably played a role in your acceptances. While it does not matter too much for others, there seems to be a big boost for AA's who have attended ivy undergrads. That said, OP should apply to all of T14 oustside of HYS as I am willing to bet on at least 1 acceptance.

You are 100 percent correct. However, I managed to get into a top 10 with these types of numbers coming from an average undergrad. The military experience sort of puts him in the same situation as an ivy undergrad URM because schools really value military expereince--and they value it even more when it's an aa male who has it.