My First Post... I just need an honest evaluation Forum

[Diiizzzzoooo]

Here is an extremely condensed version of my situation. I am 27, undergraduate GPA of 3.6, not much in terms of extracurricular activities as I have raised two children and worked full time for the past 7 years. I took the LSAT in 2008 without studying at all as a measurement of my capabilities and scored a 147. I did not know much about the test at the time, and wasn't aware of how foolish that was. I understand if you feel the need to call me names or rip me apart. It is well deserved. I have been absent from every test since and wasted hundreds because my work schedule is very demanding. Take that at face value, please. I am registered for this Saturday, October 9th and I have tested consistently in the mid-160 range. Someone please guide me somewhere...I feel like I should be doing something different. I may add that I am not, under any circumstances, changing my desire to practice law. Thank you in advance.


-Dizz

[D. H2Oman]

No idea what you're asking, if anything.

[Diiizzzzoooo]

That's the thing, I don't even know what to ask! I understand your confusion, because my own confusion is apparent from my post.

I'm just looking for anyone to give me any recommendation, no matter how discouraging, based on the information above. I feel like this test is my only way out of a horrible situation, as well as another step toward making my kids' lives more comfortable. I don't know how my application would be viewed, and I'm just nervous as hell!

[D. H2Oman]

Take the test on Saturday, actually go this time.

Hopefully hit your PT scores

Write some BS addendum for your apps explaining all the absences.(DO NOT MAKE EXCUSES OR COME OFF WHINY) You are going to look like a huge flake with absolute no foresight whatsoever btw

Lucky for you, it probably won't matter, because pretty much any school that regularly takes mid 160's LSAT scores is straight number whoring anyways.

[Diiizzzzoooo]

Thanks, but I honestly feel like a 163 is a garbage score, and that I can push it to a 170. I have only been studying off and on for about 6 weeks, and I can reserve time until December to bear down. With that said, is Saturday still a go in your opinion?

[D. H2Oman]

Thanks, but I honestly feel like a 163 is a garbage score

Yeah it kinda is

I have only been studying off and on for about 6 weeks, and I can reserve time until December to bear down. With that said, is Saturday still a go in your opinion?

You've just been taking absences right? Jeez don't take another one of those. At least take the test and cancel. Or hell keep your score and just retake.

[Diiizzzzoooo]

The only reason I have been taking absences is because I register early (to secure a spot nearby) and hope to God that my job can spare the time off. Unfortunately the nature of my business hasn't been cooperative. My supervisor's contact information is included in the addendum for verification.

I just feel like a 163 is trash. You KNOW it is. Yet, it approaches the top 10% of all scores. Why is that score such a waste?

[upalittletoolate]

I just feel like a 163 is trash. You KNOW it is. Yet, it approaches the top 10% of all scores. Why is that score such a waste?

10% is a lot of people, particularly in recent LSAT years.

[kazu]

I just feel like a 163 is trash. You KNOW it is. Yet, it approaches the top 10% of all scores. Why is that score such a waste?

10% is a lot of people, particularly in recent LSAT years.

Also, not everyone who has a score actually applies to law school.

[Diiizzzzoooo]

Then this is only further evidence in favor of taking the test in December.

[kazu]

Then this is only further evidence in favor of taking the test in December.

Are you sure you'll be able to make the test then? Are you sure you'll be able to put in the time to study for it, and hence get a higher score than you would tomorrow?

I agree with Bieber though, you should still take the test tomorrow - that many absences is just bad. Pretty much all schools take the highest score anyhow at that range.

[D. H2Oman]

Btw, can't you only register like 3 times within two years or some shit. I'm amazed they let you register for Oct. Maybe that only counts if you actually go?

[Jack Smirks]

Btw, can't you only register like 3 times within two years or some shit. I'm amazed they let you register for Oct. Maybe that only counts if you actually go?

Yeah I'm pretty sure a cancellation counts against your three attempts but an absence does not.

[Diiizzzzoooo]

Then this is only further evidence in favor of taking the test in December.

Are you sure you'll be able to make the test then? Are you sure you'll be able to put in the time to study for it, and hence get a higher score than you would tomorrow?

I agree with Bieber though, you should still take the test tomorrow - that many absences is just bad. Pretty much all schools take the highest score anyhow at that range.

I am taking an extended leave from my business beginning next month, so making the test is almost certain. And I disagree on how bad the absences look. An addendum should clear it up without issue.

[kazu]

I am taking an extended leave from my business beginning next month, so making the test is almost certain. And I disagree on how bad the absences look. An addendum should clear it up without issue.

Looks like your mind's made up then Still think you should at least go tomorrow - there's no reason not to, really, and having gone through it once can definitely reduce test day jitters the second time around.

[D. H2Oman]

Then this is only further evidence in favor of taking the test in December.

Are you sure you'll be able to make the test then? Are you sure you'll be able to put in the time to study for it, and hence get a higher score than you would tomorrow?

I agree with Bieber though, you should still take the test tomorrow - that many absences is just bad. Pretty much all schools take the highest score anyhow at that range.

I am taking an extended leave from my business beginning next month, so making the test is almost certain. And I disagree on how bad the absences look. An addendum should clear it up without issue.

Dude, you're dead wrong if you don't think those absences would affect you at T14 type schools. i would bet across the board WL/rejects for you. Taking that many was crazy.

[Diiizzzzoooo]

I am taking an extended leave from my business beginning next month, so making the test is almost certain. And I disagree on how bad the absences look. An addendum should clear it up without issue.

Looks like your mind's made up then Still think you should at least go tomorrow - there's no reason not to, really, and having gone through it once can definitely reduce test day jitters the second time around.

I believe the soundest advice is coaxed from those who are met with a small amount of resistance. Just playing devil's advocate. And Bieber, wouldn't a 170+ score make those absences a hell of a lot easier to brush aside? Besides, I honestly didn't no show on purpose. Unfortunately my employment > school.

[kazu]

I believe the soundest advice is coaxed from those who are met with a small amount of resistance. Just playing devil's advocate. And Bieber, wouldn't a 170+ score make those absences a hell of a lot easier to brush aside? Besides, I honestly didn't no show on purpose. Unfortunately my employment > school.

[D. H2Oman]

I am taking an extended leave from my business beginning next month, so making the test is almost certain. And I disagree on how bad the absences look. An addendum should clear it up without issue.

Looks like your mind's made up then Still think you should at least go tomorrow - there's no reason not to, really, and having gone through it once can definitely reduce test day jitters the second time around.

I believe the soundest advice is coaxed from those who are met with a small amount of resistance. Just playing devil's advocate. And Bieber, wouldn't a 170+ score make those absences a hell of a lot easier to brush aside? Besides, I honestly didn't no show on purpose. Unfortunately my employment > school.

Yeah, I meant that assuming you get a 170+, check LSN a lot of 3.6 170-175 types end up will end up on the WL at every single T14. Obviously with a mid 160's score you have no shot at all.

[Diiizzzzoooo]

My cursory visits of this site have yielded quite a bit of T-14 talk? The impression I get is that there are these 14 schools, and then just about every school below that benchmark is utterly useless. Can you elaborate or provide me with a link explaining in particular why the outlook for anyone not attending a T-14 is so bleak?

[D. H2Oman]

It's just an easy reference point. The outlook is bleak all around.

[bk1]

I would say take another absence. You already have something like 8, right? I don't think one more makes a difference at this point. You'd probably be better off with 147, 9 absences, 170 than with 147, 8 absences, 163, 170. Will these absences sink you? Very possibly, but you won't really know until you apply since this is a very unusual situation. Some schools may hate it, some may want your numbers badly enough to overlook it, you just won't know until you actually apply. So I say take the absence for now and take December so you don't have to bother with a retake considering the marginal difference in number of absences.

My cursory visits of this site have yielded quite a bit of T-14 talk? The impression I get is that there are these 14 schools, and then just about every school below that benchmark is utterly useless. Can you elaborate or provide me with a link explaining in particular why the outlook for anyone not attending a T-14 is so bleak?

The USNWR rankings are able to generally approximate placement power, but within certain bands of the T14 placement power is similar (i.e. HYS are peers, CCN are peers, BMVP are peers, etc, etc). The T14 schools are the most national in their reach, to a certain extent, whereas every school after that is regional. So if you can't get into a T14 you probably want to look at the best schools in the area you want to practice, such as Fordham for NY, GW for DC, UCLA/USC for CA, Vanderbilt/UT for the South/Texas, WUSTL for the midwest, etc. The reason being is that a graduate from BU or BC is going to generally be restricted to Boston and find it tough to find a job in Chicago, LA, SF, DC, etc.

The reason things are bleak is because law school costs $150k-200k in debt at sticker price and it is hard to find employment generally and even tougher to find biglaw employment (jobs that pay the market rate of $160k/year). The worse school you go to, the poorer your prospects are which makes it bleak when you have that much debt. Even if you get a good scholarship but end up not having a job at graduation, a very real possibility especially from a bad school, you have wasted 3 years of your life and have nothing to show for it. The legal market is bad, firms have severely cut hiring and many local/state governments have frozen hiring altogether due to budget crises.

To anybody who jumps on me: I'm giving a general answer so no need to nitpick.

[bk1]

It's just an easy reference point. The outlook is bleak all around.

H20man here is correct, even at the T14 things are rough.

[Diiizzzzoooo]

Thanks guys. I think I understand. So, what do you say to the kid who attends a "so what" school with "so what" grades for three years. What does he have to look forward to? And are there any indicators that things may improve? Or are the brake lines cut on this downward spiral?

[bk1]

Thanks guys. I think I understand. So, what do you say to the kid who attends a "so what" school with "so what" grades for three years. What does he have to look forward to? And are there any indicators that things may improve? Or are the brake lines cut on this downward spiral?

It'll be rough. A relative of mine graduated from Loyola-LA last year and, though he had a clerkship lined up, he said that roughly half of his class was unemployed at graduation. And Loyola-LA is supposed to be one of the stronger of the weaker schools out there.