New obsession with Columbia Law School. Forum

[tlsfa8]

When I first posted on this forum, I was pretty much excited to apply to any of the top 20 and would have been grateful to go to any one of those, especially with my lower-than-average GPA of a 3.35. But, after speaking with a few folks and some law school advisors, I was told to take advantage of my 178 LSAT and my "splitter" status.

After some research and reading this forum, I've set my sights on CLS as my ULTIMATE reach school. It doesn't hurt that my parents are still in NY and I'd really like to go back home...

Like I posted before, my GPA is a 3.35, with a huge flop junior year due to family issues. I resumed my normal 3.5 GPA average my senior year, though I did graduate a semester early. I will be 3 years removed from UG once I start LS, working all those years, with a CPA designation. Does this help, at all? I've heard two sides: softs don't matter, and on the other hand, having work experience helps a lower GPA applicant.

Anyway, I know there's always a "shot, not a good one, but a shot" when it comes to the top 5 with a GPA like mine, but am I reaching too far out, here? It would be great to hear from those who did apply to CLS and their experience with the admissions committee. Thanks all!

[20121109]

I know you probably don't want to hear it, but you have a better shot at NYU ED. FWIW, I have a friend that was accepted ED with a 177/3.3

And yes, that you are 3 years removed from your GPA should help a little.

Good luck!! No matter what happens, you're going to end up at a fantastic school

[KibblesAndVick]

If you search LSN for applicants with 175+ LSATs and GPAs below 3.45 you can see that Columbia probably doesn't love you. You might take comfort in the fact that her ugly sister NYU has slightly lower standards. You won't be very competitive for scholarship money at either school so you should ED if you're comfortable paying sticker to attend a T6 in NYC.

[tlsfa8]

I know you probably don't want to hear it, but you have a better shot at NYU ED. FWIW, I have a friend that was accepted ED with a 177/3.3

And yes, that you are 3 years removed from your GPA should help a little.

Good luck!! No matter what happens, you're going to end up at a fantastic school

Thanks for your response! I'll look into NYU a bit further, then. Clearly I wouldn't be disappointed if I were to be accepted at NYU - that would be equally as amazing. ED is quite the commitment but I have enough time to decide. If anything, I have nothing to lose if I were to be deferred!

Here's also to hoping those months I slaved away for the CPA exam was worthwhile, too...

[dresden doll]

ED to CLS. I think they'd take you.

Also, anecdotal evidence suggests that CLS likes prestigious UGs. Where did you go to school?

[tlsfa8]

If you search LSN for applicants with 175+ LSATs and GPAs below 3.45 you can see that Columbia probably doesn't love you. You might take comfort in the fact that her ugly sister NYU has slightly lower standards. You won't be very competitive for scholarship money at either school so you should ED if you're comfortable paying sticker to attend a T6 in NYC.

you bring up a good point with the money. I suppose I'm a big supporter of believing a worthwhile (and very expensive) investment will pay off in the long run. Plus, with the thousand dollars of debt staring straight at me, how could I even think to procrastinate while in school?

Oh wait, I said that about UG and that didn't really pan out as I had hoped.

ED to CLS. I think they'd take you.

Also, anecdotal evidence suggests that CLS likes prestigious UGs. Where did you go to school?

Thanks dresden doll, but I didn't go to a prestigious UG - I went to UMD, College Park for their business school/honors program. 17 year old me dreamt of working in the corporate world and when that actually happened... well, let's just say I'm really excited to go back to school and focus more on some hands on public interest/non profit work. Possibly even academia.

[094320]

..

[czelede]

When I first posted on this forum, I was pretty much excited to apply to any of the top 20 and would have been grateful to go to any one of those, especially with my lower-than-average GPA of a 3.35. But, after speaking with a few folks and some law school advisors, I was told to take advantage of my 178 LSAT and my "splitter" status.

After some research and reading this forum, I've set my sights on CLS as my ULTIMATE reach school. It doesn't hurt that my parents are still in NY and I'd really like to go back home...

Like I posted before, my GPA is a 3.35, with a huge flop junior year due to family issues. I resumed my normal 3.5 GPA average my senior year, though I did graduate a semester early. I will be 3 years removed from UG once I start LS, working all those years, with a CPA designation. Does this help, at all? I've heard two sides: softs don't matter, and on the other hand, having work experience helps a lower GPA applicant.

Anyway, I know there's always a "shot, not a good one, but a shot" when it comes to the top 5 with a GPA like mine, but am I reaching too far out, here? It would be great to hear from those who did apply to CLS and their experience with the admissions committee. Thanks all!

I'm kind of in the same boat as you (similar numbers) and while the advice I've received is still pretty unclear overall there are two things I think you should consider in this decision:

1. The so-called GPA floor that every T10 has - there are definitely exceptions. I've seen <3.0s get into Penn (where the floor is supposedly around a 3.1) and 3.2/3.3s get into Columbia (where the floor is supposedly around a 3.4); of course they don't happen all that often but they do happen now and then...which suggests that the "floor" is not as hard as one might think.

2. Softs do matter. They are the difference between why between two applicants of the same numbers, one gets rejected from the T6 and the other ends up accepted at CCN, no waitlists, with $ at one. They won't make your 3.35 magically eligible for Harvard, but great softs can give you a better fighting chance at reach schools. If it were as purely numbers based as TLS and some people would have you believe, there would be no point in the LORs and PS/essays than a pure sanity check (which is also a belief some people subscribe to). Of course, we'll never know how much softs matter which is why its hard to say whether the work experience will help you as much as you need it to. But yes. Regardless of how big, it does make a difference.

Was your school/major grade deflated by any chance? Occasionally schools will take into account that sort of thing if you can get one of your recommendation writers to mention it (or maybe if you can mention it in an addendum.)

[tlsfa8]

If you're interested in legal academia, make sure to pay attention to trying to get published while you're in law school.

I've definitely heard that when I expressed my interest - that will have to be something I'll research into once I'm in law school. Do you happen to know anything I could do BEFORE law school to be more prepared for the world of publishing?

When I first posted on this forum, I was pretty much excited to apply to any of the top 20 and would have been grateful to go to any one of those, especially with my lower-than-average GPA of a 3.35. But, after speaking with a few folks and some law school advisors, I was told to take advantage of my 178 LSAT and my "splitter" status.

After some research and reading this forum, I've set my sights on CLS as my ULTIMATE reach school. It doesn't hurt that my parents are still in NY and I'd really like to go back home...

Like I posted before, my GPA is a 3.35, with a huge flop junior year due to family issues. I resumed my normal 3.5 GPA average my senior year, though I did graduate a semester early. I will be 3 years removed from UG once I start LS, working all those years, with a CPA designation. Does this help, at all? I've heard two sides: softs don't matter, and on the other hand, having work experience helps a lower GPA applicant.

Anyway, I know there's always a "shot, not a good one, but a shot" when it comes to the top 5 with a GPA like mine, but am I reaching too far out, here? It would be great to hear from those who did apply to CLS and their experience with the admissions committee. Thanks all!

I'm kind of in the same boat as you (similar numbers) and while the advice I've received is still pretty unclear overall there are two things I think you should consider in this decision:

1. The so-called GPA floor that every T10 has - there are definitely exceptions. I've seen <3.0s get into Penn (where the floor is supposedly around a 3.1) and 3.2/3.3s get into Columbia (where the floor is supposedly around a 3.4); of course they don't happen all that often but they do happen now and then...which suggests that the "floor" is not as hard as one might think.

2. Softs do matter. They are the difference between why between two applicants of the same numbers, one gets rejected from the T6 and the other ends up accepted at CCN, no waitlists, with $ at one. They won't make your 3.35 magically eligible for Harvard, but great softs can give you a better fighting chance at reach schools. If it were as purely numbers based as TLS and some people would have you believe, there would be no point in the LORs and PS/essays than a pure sanity check (which is also a belief some people subscribe to). Of course, we'll never know how much softs matter which is why its hard to say whether the work experience will help you as much as you need it to. But yes. Regardless of how big, it does make a difference.

Was your school/major grade deflated by any chance? Occasionally schools will take into account that sort of thing if you can get one of your recommendation writers to mention it (or maybe if you can mention it in an addendum.)

That is true, I've definitely seen some applicants who don't have the typical stats and be accepted - I'm hoping it's the softs that did it for them, not just pure luck. My softs are not particularly wonderful, but real world experience has got to count for something!, at least I'm hoping.

As for my grades... I'm not sure if they were deflated. I don't believe they were. I'm not afraid to accept full responsibility for my grades, even that one horrible year, because I'm a human and frankly, life happens..though an addendum is definitely a good idea to express that, so I will most likely submit one.

Thanks for your advice, though.. I've heard similar things so I'm glad there's someone else confirming that!

[clintonius]

Yeah, this is tough. I'm actually not sure the advice about NYU being more forgiving than CLS toward your numbers range is supported -- the LSN graphs for both schools have a dearth of data in your zone, and it's not an easily predictable range for either place.

I suppose my advice would be to visit both, see if you truly love one place, and ED there.

[094320]

..

[tlsfa8]

Yeah, this is tough. I'm actually not sure the advice about NYU being more forgiving than CLS toward your numbers range is supported -- the LSN graphs for both schools have a dearth of data in your zone, and it's not an easily predictable range for either place.

I suppose my advice would be to visit both, see if you truly love one place, and ED there.

Yeah, my numbers will make my cycle unpredictable, I can already tell. I'm just hoping that the people who read my application package have a really great week and are more open to bringing in applicants like me, haha..

I'm really looking forward to visiting those schools. The next time I go home in the fall I'd really like to sit in on some classes!

I don't think there's much to do to prepare other than to read up on what people are actually publishing. I'm currently working on my senior thesis, which is in a different field, and my advisor wants to try to get that published and the focus has been on making sure to keep it up to the standard of others who have published similar work. From those in academia that I've talked to, there's a huge emphasis on producing published works and having that stuff on your CV--a top GPA in law school will also be necessary, but that's more of a requirement, rather than something that gets you the job.

Thanks for the advice! Yeah, reading up on what others are publishing is a really great idea; it'll help me become familiar with some core issues in the industry, I'm sure. Good luck on your thesis!

[dresden doll]

I know a 179/3.4 that gained admission to CLS w/money. That said, I think the prestigious UG helped.

I would strongly advise ED-ing. CLS is ridiculously competitive, and it's not like the typically stingy NYU would give you much money anyway. HYS is out with that GPA, so it's not like you'd have much regrets, apart from perhaps taking the money at MPBV.

[tlsfa8]

I know a 179/3.4 that gained admission to CLS w/money. That said, I think the prestigious UG helped.

I would strongly advise ED-ing. CLS is ridiculously competitive, and it's not like the typically stingy NYU would give you much money anyway. HYS is out with that GPA, so it's not like you'd have much regrets, apart from perhaps taking the money at MPBV.

Yeah - I'm still sticking to my belief that while money would be quite amazing, coupled with a top law school, sometimes you just can't have everything you want. However, I have read up on some loan forgiveness programs and I would really enjoy working for the government/public service organization - it could work out for me in that sense.

I know NYU and CLS are always put with Chicago. I don't see a lot of threads on Chicago (or it could be I'm not looking out for them, specifically), but I have read its pretty great for those want want to go down the academia track. If anyone's reading this & also happens to know about UChi, I'd also appreciate the input!

Also, I don't want to seem like I'm all over the place, and not being able to know "exactly what I want and why I want it," because I know how important that is when it comes to apply to law schools - I made a huge mistake in going to my UG institution for the wrong reasons, so this time around, I'm going to research the hell out of all my options

[dresden doll]

I go to UChi. LRAP here isn't as strong as LRAP at NYU and CLS. That said, it's an awesome place to be for those that want academia.

NYC as a city trumps Chicago million times over, IMO. That said, I'm a confirmed Midwest/Hyde Park hater, so there's that.

[tlsfa8]

I go to UChi. LRAP here isn't as strong as LRAP at NYU and CLS. That said, it's an awesome place to be for those that want academia.

NYC as a city trumps Chicago million times over, IMO. That said, I'm a confirmed Midwest/Hyde Park hater, so there's that.

Short and straight to the point - I love it. I too, am a big fan of NYC... but I also love a school that'll point me right where I want to be. Hm, many things to consider.