Chances w/ PENN ED and other T-14's? URM (AA)/3.3/159 Forum

[premier2t]

Hi everyone:

This is my first post on TLS, but I've been lurking for a very long time. I'll be starting my cycle this fall, and l am hoping you will be able to offer me some guidance with regards to my cycle. Here's my background info:

-AA Male
-Applying right out of undergrad
-Top 30 Private Undergrad
-Strong Letters of Recommendation
-Strong PS about overcoming my challenges with feelings of powerlessness as an black immigrant
-Softs (all completed : Managed a state level political campaign, Speechwriting for Governor of a mid-atlantic state, Worked as Executive Director of a statewide Political Action Committee, Research Assistant at major big city lobbying firm, 2 legislative internships

Do I have a chance at UPENN Early Decision, and where else can I get in?

Thank You!!!

[let/them/eat/cake]

my gut says you are good at Cornell. check out LSN though, should be some good info there.

[bk1]

I think Penn might be a bit high. Have you considered retaking in October to give yourself a better shot at Penn if that is where you want to go?

[premier2t]

I have seriously thought about taking another shot at the test in October, but to be quite honest I really worked incredibly hard for the score I earned. I am not sure that I can do much better, and I wouldn't like to lose any advantage I might have applying SUPER early. What do you think?

[Patriot1208]

If you worked EXTREMELY hard for your 159, have fun being last in the class at Upenn if you go.

[CG614]

If you worked EXTREMELY hard for your 159, have fun being last in the class at Upenn if you go.

In before thread turns into LSAT does not predict LS success.

[megaTTTron]

If you worked EXTREMELY hard for your 159, have fun being last in the class at Upenn if you go.

Haha ^^ ignore this idiot. I would retake though, even a few more points and you're cycle will be MUCH better. That 159 is poison (I know this very very well). Good luck dude.

[bk1]

I have seriously thought about taking another shot at the test in October, but to be quite honest I really worked incredibly hard for the score I earned. I am not sure that I can do much better, and I wouldn't like to lose any advantage I might have applying SUPER early. What do you think?

Prep as if you were going to take the October test. When September rolls around, if you feel like you have a shot at getting a better score than a 159, then retake, if not then submit your ED. I would suggest aiming for Cornell or GULC rather than UPenn as it seems like ED is probably your only shot at a T14.

Also, I do not know how much better it is getting an ED app in when apps first open as opposed to end of October or early November.

[premier2t]

I appreciate your input, but I'm sure people with scores similar to mine have done very well at law schools as prestigious as PENN. I have had other experiences beside the LSAT that I think have prepared me very well to properly handle the demands of law school at an institution like PENN.

[premier2t]

that last post was directed towards the patriot guy. Thanks to everyone else for your advice.

[TheBigMediocre]

OP, if you're unwilling to retake the LSAT then I think you're just going to have to spray and pray with your applications. URM cycles are pretty unpredictable but you never know.

And in response to Patriot, you can be a diversity student so long before you become a diversity hire anyway.

[Stanford4Me]

You should at least try to get in the mid 160s....

That being said, URM cycles are kinda odd, just look at mine.

[megaTTTron]

^^ at mid 160s OP would KILLL.

[premier2t]

So is T-14 unrealistic for an applicant like me?

[sumus romani]

So is T-14 unrealistic for an applicant like me?

Law school numbers does have some URM admits at Penn and Cornell of people around your numbers. But it is a long shot, it seems. It is not 'unrealistic', but you just have to be aware that it is a long shot. Look into the "serial ED strategy" some others are contemplating for next year.

[premier2t]

Would an ED app at GULC be a better decision in terms of aiming for at T-14?

[Stanford4Me]

So is T-14 unrealistic for an applicant like me?

Check your messages.

[paz]

retake and pray or no t14.

i'm pretty sure everyone is overestimating his ability to crack into cornell/gulc/penn. he supposedly studied EXTREMELY hard for the lsat, and managed a 159. throughout his 4 years in college he was only able to manage a 3.3. even with him being aa, i just don't see him garnering much attention from t14 schools.

[Patriot1208]

I appreciate your input, but I'm sure people with scores similar to mine have done very well at law schools as prestigious as PENN. I have had other experiences beside the LSAT that I think have prepared me very well to properly handle the demands of law school at an institution like PENN.

Ya, everyone thinks that. And they are all wrong. LSAT may not be a direct indicator of how well your do. But 159 with a 3.3, and trying very hard just plain means you cannot grasp material as well as 99% of your classmates. Sorry, its the hard truth, no one wants to say those things because its seen as Taboo, but you are really just doing yourself a disservice.

[sumus romani]

Would an ED app at GULC be a better decision in terms of aiming for at T-14?

Wish I could say more to help you. But there just is not a very good sample from which to draw solid conclusions. People on TLS tend to forget that GULC, even though it is at the botom of the t14, has pretty high admissions standards, especially their full time program (for fulltime, they are every bit as high as NW, Duke, and Michigan, and far higher than Cornell).

My thinking is that you definitely need to shoot for the t14, but these are reach schools and you need to apply quite a ways down the rankings. You might get, say Penn, or you might not get into any of the t30. Lawschoolnumbers suggests that you'll be sorely disappointed if you are hoping for the t20. But I suspect that it is a little too pessimistic for you. It is just a hard call all around.

edit: I meant to say that lawschoolpredictor suggests that you'll be . . . .

[TheBigMediocre]

I appreciate your input, but I'm sure people with scores similar to mine have done very well at law schools as prestigious as PENN. I have had other experiences beside the LSAT that I think have prepared me very well to properly handle the demands of law school at an institution like PENN.

Ya, everyone thinks that. And they are all wrong. LSAT may not be a direct indicator of how well your do. But 159 with a 3.3, and trying very hard just plain means you cannot grasp material as well as 99% of your classmates. Sorry, its the hard truth, no one wants to say those things because its seen as Taboo, but you are really just doing yourself a disservice.

Thomas Sowell is your kind of guy. (Which isn't bad, he's my kind of guy too)

[premier2t]

[quote]Ya, everyone thinks that. And they are all wrong. LSAT may not be a direct indicator of how well your do. But 159 with a 3.3, and trying very hard just plain means you cannot grasp material as well as 99% of your classmates. Sorry, its the hard truth, no one wants to say those things because its seen as Taboo, but you are really just doing yourself a disservice./quote]

Again, I completely appreciate your input and realist tilt. Your observations absolutely merit serious consideration. My low GPA is largely a result of my initial interest in medicine. I took a number of pre-med courses that hurt my GPA. Additionally, regrettably, a lot of the time I spent working nearly full-time during college may have resulted in me sacrificing the energy I could have used to improve my GPA.

With regards to my LSAT score, I was disappointed with my score because I consistently scored 5-8 points higher with my practice tests, and I felt so good coming out of the test. I just don't feel good about taking the test again. I started this thread because I wanted to know what my chances are given the current circumstances. Thanks again for your responses.

[fenway]

OP, if you're unwilling to retake the LSAT then I think you're just going to have to spray and pray with your applications. URM cycles are pretty unpredictable but you never know.

And in response to Patriot, you can be a diversity student so long before you become a diversity hire anyway.

truth. URM out of Penn=not a bad spot to be in.

[premier2t]

^^^ sorry for my mess of a post. i am obviously a TLS noob.

[Patriot1208]

I appreciate your input, but I'm sure people with scores similar to mine have done very well at law schools as prestigious as PENN. I have had other experiences beside the LSAT that I think have prepared me very well to properly handle the demands of law school at an institution like PENN.

Ya, everyone thinks that. And they are all wrong. LSAT may not be a direct indicator of how well your do. But 159 with a 3.3, and trying very hard just plain means you cannot grasp material as well as 99% of your classmates. Sorry, its the hard truth, no one wants to say those things because its seen as Taboo, but you are really just doing yourself a disservice.

Thomas Sowell is your kind of guy. (Which isn't bad, he's my kind of guy too)

had to google him, not enough info on wikipedia for me to really know, but he could be it seems.