Will this be a 3.1 or 3.7? Forum

[okfine]

Anyone out there had experience with taking time off before graduating and then doing much better? I racked up a 2.5 in three years, took four years off, and started over at another school. Did 3.5 years there, graduated cum laude with a 3.7. My cumulative is a 3.1. My major GPA is a 3.7 (I like how prominent that is on the LSAC report). My LSATs are 168 (in 2007) and 174 (this June). How do you see this playing out?

Prelaw advisor at my school is positive about my being evaluated as a 3.7, as are a couple other profs I've talked to. What do you think?

[BIG_STATE_U]

Berkeley prefers high GPA over high LSAT, not the other way around.

[im_blue]

Anyone out there had experience with taking time off before graduating and then doing much better? I racked up a 2.5 in three years, took four years off, and started over at another school. Did 3.5 years there, graduated cum laude with a 3.7. My cumulative is a 3.1. My major GPA is a 3.7 (I like how prominent that is on the LSAC report).

The LSAC report only lists cumulative and degree GPAs.

My LSATs are 168 (in 2007) and 174 (this June). How do you see this playing out? I'll be applying to Berkeley (reach, I know, but they take high LSAT), UVA, UT, Vandy, UCLA, USC, Emory, and some safeties. I'm a warm-weather kind of guy.

Actually, Berkeley is one of the few T14s that has a policy of averaging multiple scores.

Prelaw advisor at my school is positive about my being evaluated as a 3.7, as are a couple other profs I've talked to. What do you think?

Prelaw advisors are idiots. You'll be counted as a 3.1, so you need to aim a lot lower on your list and add more real safeties.

[okfine]

Thanks for the quick replies.

@bigstate: yeah, I saw that in the FAQ. But the dean insisted in the interview that they weigh them equally, and if I'm considered as a 3.7 and they take the high LSAT (as the FAQ wrongly states), then I'm way above 75% on LSAT and above 25% on GPA. So, a splitter and worth a reach.

@im_blue: My LSAC Academic Summary pdf listed my major GPA more prominently than my cumulative. Not sure if it's the same pdf that gets sent to law schools, but there you go.

Thanks very much for correcting me re: Berkeley. I'll PM Ken or something.

Is it a common experience for prelaw advisors to misinform people? It seems odd that both the prelaw advisor and two other profs would be completely misguided. Thanks for the warning, though.

[kazu]

Is it a common experience for prelaw advisors to misinform people?

Yes.

[vespertiliovir]

My LSAC Academic Summary pdf listed my major GPA more prominently than my cumulative. Not sure if it's the same pdf that gets sent to law schools, but there you go.

It doesn't matter -- adcomms have done this once or twice before, and know which GPA to look for.

[okfine]

Fair enough. Does anyone who has heard of someone in a similar situation have any predictions?

[094320]

..

[drdolittle]

What will matter most is your cumulative GPA, since that's what gets averaged for the class profile, so you'll definitely be evaluated, at least initially, as a 3.1. Your 3.7 will be seen like a soft, considered differently by each school you apply to.

[okfine]

What will matter most is your cumulative GPA, since that's what gets averaged for the class profile, so you'll definitely be evaluated, at least initially, as a 3.1. Your 3.7 will be seen like a soft, considered differently by each school you apply to.

Thanks for breaking it down like that. Softens the blow, and I certainly can't argue with the logic.

Thanks for the wake-up call, everyone. Much appreciated.

I hear San Diego is a great town....

[Patriot1208]

What will matter most is your cumulative GPA, since that's what gets averaged for the class profile, so you'll definitely be evaluated, at least initially, as a 3.1. Your 3.7 will be seen like a soft, considered differently by each school you apply to.

Thanks for breaking it down like that. Softens the blow, and I certainly can't argue with the logic.

Thanks for the wake-up call, everyone. Much appreciated.

I hear San Diego is a great town....

With your LSAT score you still have a good chance at some of the schools ranked in the teens. Also, a ED to UVA could sneak you in because you would raise their lsat median. Your not out of luck because LSAT is generally weighted much more than GPA.

[joeshmo39]

Down and Dirty Bottom Line: when the schools report the numbers to US News and World report they report your highest LSAT and cumulative GPA from the LSDAS report. They may consider other numbers and understand your situation, but this is what they have to report. As such, they consider these the most for rankings purposes. Your GPA is low but it's a above 3.0 which makes a difference.

[jackalope11]

Fair enough. Does anyone who has heard of someone in a similar situation have any predictions?

Graduated with a 3.9 GPA... LSAC got ahold of it, counted classes that I took back in the 90's and retook in 2007... End result? 3.1.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the LSDAS GPA calculation is a @#$%&...

[thechee]

Berkeley prefers high GPA over high LSAT, not the other way around.

This is not a hard and fast rule. I really believe Ed Tom when he says that GPA, LSAT, and softs are weighted equally. I don't think it's that they place supremely high value on a great GPA. Rather, the LSAT isn't everything for them. Good softs plus a 170+ LSAT can overcome a sub 3.8 GPA.

Also, I don't think they average. I got a 164 and 170, so averaging would have put me at a 3.6/167.

[pelmen74]

with an average LSAT of 171 you have a good chance at the lower T-14 (esp Gtown and Cornell). An addendum about the 6 pt jump in your LSAT score could help you as well. Congrats on the 174.

[okfine]

Hey! Much more positive stuff to wake up to. Sweet.

@patriot: Thanks for the suggestion and the encouragement. I've really got my heart set on UT, so I'll probably start by doing the non-binding EA there (they start on an unspecified day in August), and then make a decision on binding EDs, hopefully after hearing from UT. Interesting that Virginia doesn't give a deadline for their ED.

@joe: Yeah, that makes sense. A little frustrating, thinking about how this might have gone without USNWR in the back of their minds, but whatever. It looks like at worst I'll be spending 1-3 years in San Diego or New Orleans. Good problem to have.

@jackalope: That really sucks. My lead weight classes were back in the 90's, too. Congrats on UIUC! Exciting to see you got in with $$. Nice work.

@thechee: Thanks for the thoughts. I may still throw an app Berkeley's way.

@pelmen: Thanks for the advice on the LSAT addendum. Hadn't heard that that was necessary. Much appreciated.