a heavy 164/172 Forum

[defrutamadre]

From what I can tell, the agreed upon stance concerning whether or not schools average a large discrepancy between two scores is: if they like you, they'll take the highest one. If they don't, they'll average and...that's that. I know that my average is a 168, a score I would also be proud of, but it is definitely a different animal in the admissions game than the 172 is. I have also been reading that a large discrepancy between two scores (most schools say 6+ or more) should be addressed in an addendum, but..."well, I freaked out" doesn't seem like it would be the most well-received explanation (although it is probably the most true. I did have a pretty serious time-consuming-misbubbled-but-fixed incident, but I don't believe that's a legit reason--I performed how I performed, and then I learned how to approach test day better).

Although I am still undecided about whether or not I want to apply to law school this year or if I want to wait a year, I am wondering how I should approach the cycle. My current LSAC GPA is a 3.97 (a GPA that I'm pretty confident I can maintain, cross fingers). I attend a top 25 private university, nothing prestigious that makes the asian parents go oohhh, but I am there on full scholarship. slightly above average softs. non-URM. I beg for the wisdom of TLSers here because LSN lacks reliable data about recent candidates with low first-time LSAT scores for the schools I'm interested in (or I am technologically stupid, also possible) and law school predictor doesn't take into account the 164 that I think might anchor my application into a slightly dangerous situation.

I know Harvard has a new admissions dean that seems to look more favorably at high GPA scores, and I know that Yale and Stanford are really just black holes of luck for the vast majority of even the best applicants, but I'm wondering if the 164 (or the averaged 168) edges me out of probable RD at Columbia, UChicago and NYU. These are the schools that (aside from YSH, of course) I would love to attend. The full ride I took for UG over schools I actually wanted was a decision I am very glad I made, but for law school I think I want to get into the best school possible--even if that means paying sticker. Would you recommend ED to solidify my chances? Is my fear of averaged scores way exaggerated? Am I a frakking idiot?

[northwood]

Yale, Stanford, Harvard, NYU NU and other schools in the top 10 average your Lsat scores. When you look at the rankings, assume that the top 20 ranked schools average. YOur GPa is awesome( as long as it remains the same when you graduate), coupled with an lsat average of 168 will get you in a lot of schools, possibly with a scholarship ( maybe not harvard, yale or stanford though).

Do you have any great softs or a home run of a personal statement. While these arent looked at as intensely as the LSAT and GPA, they MAY ( a big may) have an influence to get you in , if you're a point or two off.. But that is a HUGE Assumption, that should be taken with a grain of salt, and a shot of cheap( re: horrible tequila.

by the way, law school do not care about where you went to UG.. they only care about your GPA- make sure to keep it as high as possible ( and don't get into trouble either)

[joeshmo39]

The top 20 schools do not average. The top 5 or so schools average. I wouldn't worry much about anyone after NYU averaging MPVB etc. almost certainly do not average.

[defrutamadre]

Yale, Stanford, Harvard, NYU NU and other schools in the top 10 average your Lsat scores. When you look at the rankings, assume that the top 20 ranked schools average. YOur GPa is awesome( as long as it remains the same when you graduate), coupled with an lsat average of 168 will get you in a lot of schools, possibly with a scholarship ( maybe not harvard, yale or stanford though).

Do you have any great softs or a home run of a personal statement. While these arent looked at as intensely as the LSAT and GPA, they MAY ( a big may) have an influence to get you in , if you're a point or two off.. But that is a HUGE Assumption, that should be taken with a grain of salt, and a shot of cheap( re: horrible tequila.

by the way, law school do not care about where you went to UG.. they only care about your GPA- make sure to keep it as high as possible ( and don't get into trouble either)

My softs are pretty good, but nothing extraordinary--they show that I was an involved and an active student, not that I am particularly amazing at something. Summer internships at non-profits, became highly proficient at two languages during my undergrad, will have done the americorps program geared toward public interest law in CA, worked with at-risk high school students, two pretty big leadership roles in two philanthropic university organizations...I think above average, but nothing great.

I can accept that SYH is improbable for me, but if I wanted to guarantee an acceptance to Columbia/NYU/UChicago, for instance, do you think I should apply ED? I'm terribly unsure what the 164 will do to my admissions cycle. I'm sure I could get into some of the lower T-14 RD but if I were to gun for the T6, what do you think would be the best move?

[paralegal]

The top 5 or so schools average. I wouldn't worry much about anyone after NYU averaging MPVB etc.

Actually, the most effective way to determine whether this is true is to evaluate the statistics of what each law school did last cycle with multiple scores. Based upon NYU's stats, they accepted multiple scores that indicated that they were not averaging. Columbia accepted multiple scores that indicated that they were not always averaging as well. Even Harvard, waitlisted applicants with multiple scores, but I'm not sure what their outcomes were. Northwestern states that their policy re multiple scores is that they accept the highest score.

[defrutamadre]

bump

[djjf39]

Write a succinct addendum with a legitimate excuse and cross your fingers. Your 3.97 screams 170+, many an adcomm should think.

[Na_Swatch]

The top 20 schools do not average. The top 5 or so schools average. I wouldn't worry much about anyone after NYU averaging MPVB etc. almost certainly do not average.

The Top 20 schools definitely do not average... basically only the top 5 schools will even put much emphasis on your other scores as well (with Chicago and Columbia only doing this very slightly).

Basically for all intents and purposes OP you are a:

3.92/172 for all schools below a top 5
3.92/171~172 for Chicago and Columbia

Here's where it gets tougher, your 164 is going to hurt your HYS applications, but not to the point of an averaging. From surveying the large sample of admitted applicants, H and S do not straight up average your LSAT scores. Thus whereas 172, 3.92 from a T25 UG should have around 50% chance at H this past cycle (heavier GPA emphasis & strong UG a plus), the 164 might drop you to say 33% chance.

Definitely still worth the application though, best of luck!

[OG Loc]

Yale, Stanford, Harvard, NYU NU and other schools in the top 10 average your Lsat scores. When you look at the rankings, assume that the top 20 ranked schools average. YOur GPa is awesome( as long as it remains the same when you graduate), coupled with an lsat average of 168 will get you in a lot of schools, possibly with a scholarship ( maybe not harvard, yale or stanford though).

Do you have any great softs or a home run of a personal statement. While these arent looked at as intensely as the LSAT and GPA, they MAY ( a big may) have an influence to get you in , if you're a point or two off.. But that is a HUGE Assumption, that should be taken with a grain of salt, and a shot of cheap( re: horrible tequila.

by the way, law school do not care about where you went to UG.. they only care about your GPA- make sure to keep it as high as possible ( and don't get into trouble either)

I think you meant CU, but NU (Northwestern) only considers the high score.

[20121109]

Here's where it gets tougher, your 164 is going to hurt your HYS applications, but not to the point of an averaging. From surveying the large sample of admitted applicants, H and S do not straight up average your LSAT scores. Thus whereas 172, 3.92 from a T25 UG should have around 50% chance at H this past cycle (heavier GPA emphasis & strong UG a plus), the 164 might drop you to say 33% chance.

Definitely still worth the application though, best of luck!

This.

If you look through the Harvard 2010 thread, you'll see many non-URM posters with multiple LSAT scores, some even in the 160s, who were lucky enough to receive a JR2. It can be seen as a negative, but it definitely doesn't preclude admission.

Good luck