I got me a crappy 160.... Forum

[mihk1151]

So I've already taken the LSAT 3 times and here are the results....

1) Dec '08: Canceled - Went in without any studying and it bit me in the a$$...hard

2) June '08: 147 - Studied for a month before the test (no PTs), but there were numerous construction going on outside of my test center, and I mean literally outside by the room that I was in, so I had no focus throughout the test.

3) June '09: 160 - juggled between studying/working at my full time job; took 20+ PTs with an avg of 163 (scores ranged between 159-170); fml, my watch went out of battery before my last section (RC) so I had no track of time and had to fill in the last 8 questions.

I've been thinking hard for the past couple of days now, but I am just lost. I KNOW my numbers are not stellar, so should I just give up on the idea of LS? Should I retake or just take a chance and apply? If so, any chance at any of the T50 schools? I think I can do better than a 160, but I am feeling a little reluctant to retake because I think taking the test for the fourth time may do more bad than good when applying. I know how competitive the legal market is nowadays, so I don't want to go to some crappy LS just to graduate with a useless JD and a load of debt. If I don't get into a T50 LS, I probably won't go. I prefer to stay around the DC/VA area, but if I can get into somewhere respectable, I don't mind leaving the area. Soooo here is the rest of my stats, please let me know what you think...

T50 Business School (Class of 09!)
Major: Finance & International Business
LSGPA: 3.49-3.50 (Major: 3.70)
Softs: Born in Hong Kong, moved to US around ~7th grade. (Unfortunately, I am not one of those super smart asian ppl :/)
Bilingual - English & Chinese (I could be trilingual since I can speak both kinds of chinese)
Currently a full time employer as an analyst for a big 4 accounting firm.


Sorry for such long post, but I am just another depressed fellow looking for some enlightenment here. Thanks for all your time!

[Fred_McGriff]

3.5 with a 160 is a good set of numbers. You aren't going to Harvard, but there's nothing wrong with not going to Harvard.

[vespertiliovir]

3.5 with a 160 is a good set of numbers. You aren't going to Harvard, but there's nothing wrong with not going to Harvard.

Blatant anti-Harvard trolling.

[3ThrowAway99]

Love the thread title

[dukelawguy144]

retake and score a 165+

If you cant, dont go to law school. Going to anything lower that top 20 IMO is just pointless. You will end up with a lot of debt and be miserable. Or go for a CPA if your an analyst at a Big4 (far better option than a law degree from a crappy school)

[Army2Law]

Give up law school, get an MBA instead.

[MrKappus]

Give up law school, get an MBA instead.

FWIW, I had an only slightly higher than median LSAT at my T30 and am ~top 5%. Just apply to a lot of places and hope for the best. Or retake (if your PT avg says you can do better).

Edit: I meant to quote the "don't go to law school if you can't get a 165+ guy." Oops.

[fenway]

3.5 with a 160 is a good set of numbers. You aren't going to Harvard, but there's nothing wrong with not going to Harvard.

absolute truths in the statement made, the posters name, and the appropriate avatar. well done, sir

[lawschoolhelp]

I think your best response is to re-take after you are consistently scoring in a range that you are comfortable with (most people generally strive for a 165 or above)

Also, I just wanted to let you know that my boyfriend, who is attending Columbia in the fall with scholarship, had tremendous difficulty dealing with the LSAT. He canceled once, received a 158 and then got a 173. During the period from he when he took and got a 158 to the time he earned a 173, he went through extreme depression. He also took many practice exams (I think probably more than 35!). It was a very bad experience for him because he, like you, had a good academic and work record. However, after he started to understand that the LSAT is not the most important thing in the world and that chances to be successful in law (or in life in general) is not tied to your LSAT score, he started to feel better. When he took the exam for the third time, he went in with the attitude that it does not matter, and the lower anxiety level certainly helped his performance. I do not know if your anxiety hindered your performance, but if it was, it is certainly manageable (think of meditation, yoga, rekki, etc).

I would try to re-take and try not to stress out too much about it. If not, a 160 can get you into pretty good law schools.

Also, on a side note, I work as an analyst for a BIG 4 as well!

[fenway]

OP, don't worry about what's gonna happen. just send in the apps and see where shit lands. with your numbers, the chances that you find a solid option are very high. to pin down any particular school isn't necessarily prudent for practicality or your mental well-being. I'm sure you'll end up just fine

[dukelawguy144]

I think your best response is to re-take after you are consistently scoring in a range that you are comfortable with (most people generally strive for a 165 or above)

Also, I just wanted to let you know that my boyfriend, who is attending Columbia in the fall with scholarship, had tremendous difficulty dealing with the LSAT. He canceled once, received a 158 and then got a 173. During the period from he when he took and got a 158 to the time he earned a 173, he went through extreme depression. He also took many practice exams (I think probably more than 35!). It was a very bad experience for him because he, like you, had a good academic and work record. However, after he started to understand that the LSAT is not the most important thing in the world and that chances to be successful in law (or in life in general) is not tied to your LSAT score, he started to feel better. When he took the exam for the third time, he went in with the attitude that it does not matter, and the lower anxiety level certainly helped his performance. I do not know if your anxiety hindered your performance, but if it was, it is certainly manageable (think of meditation, yoga, rekki, etc).

I would try to re-take and try not to stress out too much about it. If not, a 160 can get you into pretty good law schools.

Also, on a side note, I work as analyst for a BIG 4 as well!

stop making stuff up...... you and your boyfriend dont exist. do not instill false hope in people with fictitious stories.

[mihk1151]

Hey thanks for all the quick replies! As far as getting a CPA, I have zero interest in it, their work is not intellectually challenging at all. Then there is the option of getting a MBA, yeah maybe I can get a MBA in Finance and get a job as a investment banker or securities trader, but the finance industry as a whole appears too superficial to me nowadays. Even though its painful to hear you all telling me to not go in LS, I do appreciate the honest opinions! Also, the pick-me-up statements about my numbers, thanks for that too! haha

[Grizz]

their work is not intellectually challenging at all.

Neither is most law. A lot of it is sheer cut and paste drivel.

but the finance industry as a whole appears too superficial to me nowadays.

And law's not?

[Cosmo Kramer]

retake and score a 165+

If you cant, dont go to law school. Going to anything lower that top 20 IMO is just pointless. You will end up with a lot of debt and be miserable. Or go for a CPA if your an analyst at a Big4 (far better option than a law degree from a crappy school)

Don't listen to this guy.

[dukelawguy144]

Hey thanks for all the quick replies! As far as getting a CPA, I have zero interest in it, their work is not intellectually challenging at all. Then there is the option of getting a MBA, yeah maybe I can get a MBA in Finance and get a job as a investment banker or securities trader, but the finance industry as a whole appears too superficial to me nowadays. Even though its painful to hear you all telling me to not go in LS, I do appreciate the honest opinions! Also, the pick-me-up statements about my numbers, thanks for that too! haha

Yea MBA in finance is probably a better option. I honestly believe if you cant break a 165, then law school is not worth the debt because you wont get into a respected school. Just rock your GMATs (which are pretty damn easy) and get some good recs and go to business school. Its probably your only shot of getting at a degree from a respected institution. Law school is pretty much going to be a lost cause and it will most likely lead you to be depressed. Good luck

[mihk1151]

their work is not intellectually challenging at all.

Neither is most law. A lot of it is sheer cut and paste drivel.

but the finance industry as a whole appears too superficial to me nowadays.

And law's not?

The ability to manipulate words and rules are much more intriguing to me than numbers. Numbers are numbers and in my line of work, numbers can't be manipulated too much. As for the superficiality of the legal field, at least you can put a face on some of the cases you work with; being an analyst, you only deal with a faceless "client", "entity", or however you want to word it, its all on paper. Its a little inhumane to me, I guess, but we are getting off topic here rad law! Thanks for the reply anyway!

[mihk1151]

Hey thanks for all the quick replies! As far as getting a CPA, I have zero interest in it, their work is not intellectually challenging at all. Then there is the option of getting a MBA, yeah maybe I can get a MBA in Finance and get a job as a investment banker or securities trader, but the finance industry as a whole appears too superficial to me nowadays. Even though its painful to hear you all telling me to not go in LS, I do appreciate the honest opinions! Also, the pick-me-up statements about my numbers, thanks for that too! haha

Yea MBA in finance is probably a better option. I honestly believe if you cant break a 165, then law school is not worth the debt because you wont get into a respected school. Just rock your GMATs (which are pretty damn easy) and get some good recs and go to business school. Its probably your only shot of getting at a degree from a respected institution. Law school is pretty much going to be a lost cause and it will most likely lead you to be depressed. Good luck

Hey thanks for the blunt honesty. I will definitely take your opinion into consideration. Good luck at Duke dude!

[lawschoolhelp]

Hey thanks for all the quick replies! As far as getting a CPA, I have zero interest in it, their work is not intellectually challenging at all. Then there is the option of getting a MBA, yeah maybe I can get a MBA in Finance and get a job as a investment banker or securities trader, but the finance industry as a whole appears too superficial to me nowadays. Even though its painful to hear you all telling me to not go in LS, I do appreciate the honest opinions! Also, the pick-me-up statements about my numbers, thanks for that too! haha

Yea MBA in finance is probably a better option. I honestly believe if you cant break a 165, then law school is not worth the debt because you wont get into a respected school. Just rock your GMATs (which are pretty damn easy) and get some good recs and go to business school. Its probably your only shot of getting at a degree from a respected institution. Law school is pretty much going to be a lost cause and it will most likely lead you to be depressed. Good luck

I am sure plenty of graduates who do not attend top 10 institutions have excellent career prospects. With OP's numbers, I am sure OP can get into a decent school and have a chance to shine. There is no need to change career paths completely with a decent score.

OP, if law is what you want to do, then you have an oppurtunity to do well and gain admission to a good school. If you are extremely unhappy with your LSAT score, retake but only if you are content with your alternatives and admission opportunities with your current score (this will alleviate your anxiety on test day )

Also Dukelawguy: I do not appreciate your condescending remarks to me and that you are saying I am not a real person

[Grizz]

The ability to manipulate words and rules are much more intriguing to me than numbers.

Trust me dude. So much of law is the same cut and paste motions and bullshit over and over. Same contracts, same notices, same motions to suppress over and over. Much of this is mindless and dull. Don't go into this with any illusions.

And retake.

[mihk1151]

For those of you who suggested a retake....don't you think taking it for the fourth time do very little good? I feel like the admission offices would look at my app with a negative connotation since I have to give it 4 tries to get a desirable score (assuming I get that desirable score on my fourth attempt).

[Grizz]

For those of you who suggested a retake....don't you think taking it for the fourth time do very little good? I feel like the admission offices would look at my app with a negative connotation since I have to give it 4 tries to get a desirable score (assuming I get that desirable score on my fourth attempt).

Most (almost all) schools are cool with whatever is your highest.

[dukelawguy144]

Hey thanks for all the quick replies! As far as getting a CPA, I have zero interest in it, their work is not intellectually challenging at all. Then there is the option of getting a MBA, yeah maybe I can get a MBA in Finance and get a job as a investment banker or securities trader, but the finance industry as a whole appears too superficial to me nowadays. Even though its painful to hear you all telling me to not go in LS, I do appreciate the honest opinions! Also, the pick-me-up statements about my numbers, thanks for that too! haha

Yea MBA in finance is probably a better option. I honestly believe if you cant break a 165, then law school is not worth the debt because you wont get into a respected school. Just rock your GMATs (which are pretty damn easy) and get some good recs and go to business school. Its probably your only shot of getting at a degree from a respected institution. Law school is pretty much going to be a lost cause and it will most likely lead you to be depressed. Good luck

Thanks man. Just think long and hard and "it is what it is." Maybe its a blessing in disguise that you do not go to law school or not attend a top ranked school. When I was applying to college, I did not rock the SATs or anything but I kicked ass in school and got into an awesome law school (also I did well on my LSAT casting doubt on the SAT, LSAT formula). Maybe the fact that I went to a pretty crappy state school and did great helped me get into law school. I dont know. But, from what I hear, for people who do not get into a top tier law school, an MBA is a better investment.

[hithere]

just retake it

[mihk1151]

Hey thanks for all the quick replies! As far as getting a CPA, I have zero interest in it, their work is not intellectually challenging at all. Then there is the option of getting a MBA, yeah maybe I can get a MBA in Finance and get a job as a investment banker or securities trader, but the finance industry as a whole appears too superficial to me nowadays. Even though its painful to hear you all telling me to not go in LS, I do appreciate the honest opinions! Also, the pick-me-up statements about my numbers, thanks for that too! haha

Yea MBA in finance is probably a better option. I honestly believe if you cant break a 165, then law school is not worth the debt because you wont get into a respected school. Just rock your GMATs (which are pretty damn easy) and get some good recs and go to business school. Its probably your only shot of getting at a degree from a respected institution. Law school is pretty much going to be a lost cause and it will most likely lead you to be depressed. Good luck

I am sure plenty of graduates who do not attend top 10 institutions have excellent career prospects. With OP's numbers, I am sure OP can get into a decent school and have a chance to shine. There is no need to change career paths completely with a decent score.

OP, if law is what you want to do, then you have an oppurtunity to do well and gain admission to a good school. If you are extremely unhappy with your LSAT score, retake but only if you are content with your alternatives and admission opportunities with your current score (this will alleviate your anxiety on test day )

Also Dukelawguy: I do not appreciate your condescending remarks to me and that you are saying I am not a real person

What up, fellow analyst at big 4 acctg firm!? Law is definitely something that I want to do, and I hope you are right about me shining. Also, I believe you are a real person, so don't worry about Dukelawguy's comment. Oh and thanks for that inspiring story about your bf.

[honestabe84]

retake and score a 165+

If you cant, dont go to law school. Going to anything lower that top 20 IMO is just pointless. You will end up with a lot of debt and be miserable. Or go for a CPA if your an analyst at a Big4 (far better option than a law degree from a crappy school)

How do you know OP does not want to do PI or something?