... Forum

[poo]

Thanks for the help!

[poo]

Anybody>?

[JennBNYC]

Try this if you haven't already..

http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com/?page_id=11

[Veyron]

Chances at getting in somewhere - good!

Chances at getting in somewhere that will get you a job, poor!

Chances that you should retake - 100%

[Nom Sawyer]

Retake... basically do anything you have to (even delaying law school for a year) to retake...

An improvement of 7 points paired with that GPA will give you a boost that is literally worth $120,000 or more. Think of the LSAT as a job with a huge 3 or 6 month payoff possible.

[maxm2764]

You're always going to hear retake on TLS if your score isn't a 160+. Take my advice for what it's worth but depending on what school you're looking to go to you will be able to get a fulfilling/successful job if you do well in law school. I'm sitting at 158 too and while I'm definitely not going to t-14, which is a death sentence to most of TLS, I'll still hopefully get into a relatively good school in a large legal market. So if you're shooting for a t-30 I'd say retake too but if you've got schools in mind that'll take that LSAT then go for it. Don't let a self-selected pool of 165+'s scare you away from applying because your score is in the 75th percentile and not the 99th.

[Cardboardbox]

I have to get on the retake boat. Your GPA is way too good to waste on a low LSAT. What range were you scoring in before the test and how much time did you spend preparing?

[romothesavior]

You're always going to hear retake on TLS if your score isn't a 160+. Take my advice for what it's worth but depending on what school you're looking to go to you will be able to get a fulfilling/successful job if you do well in law school. I'm sitting at 158 too and while I'm definitely not going to t-14, which is a death sentence to most of TLS, I'll still hopefully get into a relatively good school in a large legal market. So if you're shooting for a t-30 I'd say retake too but if you've got schools in mind that'll take that LSAT then go for it. Don't let a self-selected pool of 165+'s scare you away from applying because your score is in the 75th percentile and not the 99th.

The reason people are so gung-ho on the T14 is because people are gung-ho about getting employed. Things are atrociously bad out there right now, and schools with LSATs in the 150s are going to end up with the majority of their students unemployed. Honestly, this attitude isn't born out of eliteness or smugness. There are some lower ranked schools with great atmospheres, great people, great clinics and class offerings, great professors, etc., and I'm sure going to any of those schools would be a great experience. The problem, however, is that lower ranked schools do not have strong employment statistics. And I don't just mean biglaw or clerkships or prestigious jobs; I mean many of their students are unemployed. There are students at Columbia without jobs. How do you think students at St. Louis University and Chapman and Cardozo are faring if students at the elite schools cannot get jobs? I dunno if you've spent any time in the employment thread, but here you go:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... m.php?f=23

And please don't come back at me with school-reported employment statistics. They are made up BS:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=114338

Anyways, to the OP:
You should retake. You have a fantastic GPA, and if you can get that LSAT over 165, you could be looking at big money at Tier 1 schools and possibly even a few T14 acceptances.

What did you do to prepare for the LSAT the first time? If you didn't study intensively and efficiently, then you need to retake. Check out this thread: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =6&t=41657. Sign up for the September LSAT and do everything that man says.

[poo]

Do I have a shot @ iowa? Its my top choice, and if I have no shot then I'll retake for sure.

[romothesavior]

Do I have a shot @ iowa? Its my top choice, and if I have no shot then I'll retake for sure.

I'd say yes, you do have a decent shot thanks to your GPA. The problem, however, is that you are at their 25%ile for the LSAT, which means even if you get accepted, you will be paying close to sticker price. That is a really scary proposition, especially in this economy. I have a friend who I went to undergrad with who just graduated from Iowa. She has told me that things at Iowa are brutal right now and the majority of her classmates cannot find a job.

I know the proposition of a re-take sounds terrible. Trust me, it sounded bad to me too. But there are many people on here who will tell you that retaking was the best decision of their lives (and many of those people had to actually delay law school by a year in order to do it!) I don't know what your study habits were, but if you know in your heart that you could have worked harder and worked smarter, then a retake would be huge for you. You have a lot of time before September, and it would not be unheard of for you to get a 165-170. With your GPA, a 165 gives you a shot at Cornell and a full ride at Iowa. A 170 would open up the T10 and would give you huge scholarships or full rides at just about every school from the lower T14 on down.

I got a 162 on my June LSAT last year and was ecstatic with my score. But then I did some thinking... If I could score a 162 without too much effort, I could do a lot better if I really put in the time and energy. So I decided to retake, and was able to get big scholarships to Illinois, Vanderbilt, Wash U, and got an acceptance from Cornell. If I had guessed one more question correctly, I'd be in at Michigan. As much as studying for the retake sucked, it drastically changed the options I had available to me.

Think about it long and hard, and good luck!

[itsablessing]

I think you have a good shot at Iowa. As stated earlier, Iowa loves a high GPA. I was admitted to Iowa and your numbers are more impressive than mine. If you're looking to score a scholarship, consider a retake.

[Teoeo]

Retaking is really the best choice (unless you are positive your score will not improve). 7-10 LSAT points have a $ value of 100-200k in your case.

[animalcrkrs]

Please please please please retake. Don't waste that GPA.

[maxm2764]

.

[CG614]

You're always going to hear retake on TLS if your score isn't a 160+. Take my advice for what it's worth but depending on what school you're looking to go to you will be able to get a fulfilling/successful job if you do well in law school. I'm sitting at 158 too and while I'm definitely not going to t-14, which is a death sentence to most of TLS, I'll still hopefully get into a relatively good school in a large legal market. So if you're shooting for a t-30 I'd say retake too but if you've got schools in mind that'll take that LSAT then go for it. Don't let a self-selected pool of 165+'s scare you away from applying because your score is in the 75th percentile and not the 99th.

The reason people are so gung-ho on the T14 is because people are gung-ho about getting employed. Things are atrociously bad out there right now, and schools with LSATs in the 150s are going to end up with the majority of their students unemployed. Honestly, this attitude isn't born out of eliteness or smugness. There are some lower ranked schools with great atmospheres, great people, great clinics and class offerings, great professors, etc., and I'm sure going to any of those schools would be a great experience. The problem, however, is that lower ranked schools do not have strong employment statistics. And I don't just mean biglaw or clerkships or prestigious jobs; I mean many of their students are unemployed. There are students at Columbia without jobs. How do you think students at St. Louis University and Chapman and Cardozo are faring if students at the elite schools cannot get jobs? I dunno if you've spent any time in the employment thread, but here you go:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... m.php?f=23

And please don't come back at me with school-reported employment statistics. They are made up BS:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2&t=114338

Anyways, to the OP:
You should retake. You have a fantastic GPA, and if you can get that LSAT over 165, you could be looking at big money at Tier 1 schools and possibly even a few T14 acceptances.

.

..

[CoryMatthews]

retake retake retake...

with that GPA even a couple more points on the LSAT will make a very large difference.

you have already proved that you will be a great student, getting a better lsat will only prove that you are going to be a great law student.

but thats just one mans opinion

[DaveBear07]

The pertinent question here is how much studying did you do for the LSAT? Can you still improve? Because the collective wisdom of TLS is right again (as usual) on this one. With a GPA like that we can only assume you know how to learn and to work hard.

Did you use the PS Bibles? What was your Prep like? This information will help us all in giving you good guidance.

Personally, while I'm proud of my GPA, I am foaming at the mouth for yours. Don't miss an amazing opportunity if you have room to improve on the LSAT.

[jackalope11]

Dude, Romo isn't even going to a T-14, how is that elitist? He speaks the truth.

+1... was already typing this reply, but you beat me to it.

Not for nothing, but Romo isn't going to a T-14 either, though he surely has the numbers to do it. This is the second time I've seen people jump on his(?) case for taking the time to clearly state the facts for people that ask questions... When did honesty start to = douchiness?

Not trying to get on anyone's case here, but I think there are others that would agree that Romo's been pretty helpful to their decision making...

[maxm2764]

I've seen that he has definitely been helpful to other people. You're right, it'll be deleted but his response to one of my earlier posts was just condescending and then I saw he wrote something here and it just sent me over the edge. Romo, that's my bad I lost my cool a little. You probably know more about this than I do so I'll just swallow my pride. Sorry all.

[DaveBear07]

And while Iowa clearly is a great school and very reputable in its market; I say score higher on the LSAT and go there for free and/or close to free. In that sense, the 100k value of the higher LSAT score is impossible to miss.

[CG614]

I've seen that he has definitely been helpful to other people. Your You're right, it'll be deleted but his response to one of my earlier posts was just condescending and then I saw he wrote something here and it just sent me over the edge. Romo, that's my bad I lost my cool a little. You probably know more about this than I do so I'll just swallow my pride. Sorry all.

I think the consensus is that with a 3.94, it would be a shame to settle for that LSAT score. With a 3.94, a 165-167 gives the OP a shot at the lower end of the T-14.

[maxm2764]

I've seen that he has definitely been helpful to other people. Your You're right, it'll be deleted but his response to one of my earlier posts was just condescending and then I saw he wrote something here and it just sent me over the edge. Romo, that's my bad I lost my cool a little. You probably know more about this than I do so I'll just swallow my pride. Sorry all.

I think the consensus is that with a 3.94, it would be a shame to settle for that LSAT score. With a 3.94, a 165-167 gives the OP a shot at the lower end of the T-14.

Yeah and I understand that, he should definitely do what he can to raise that score.

[romothesavior]

Haha yeah I'm not elitist at all. I've actually been trading messages back and forth all day with a 162/3.94 to discuss options and figure out what is best for him. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on any of this, but I will certainly offer my insights as best I can.

But at the same time, I am a realist. I have many friends in law school and have spoken with many lawyers about legal hiring. Things are bad. When people say go to a T14 or go to the best school or say "Don't go the School X," they aren't being elitist, they are being realistic. Like I said, even lower ranked schools have fantastic facilities, great clinics, great profs, wonderful atmospheres, etc. However, those things are not what you are paying for when you spend 6 figures on a JD. You are paying for a marketable degree so you can get a job.

As far as a retake goes, it really depends on if OP can do better. If he can, then he absolutely should retake.

[jackalope11]

Haha yeah I'm not elitist at all. I've actually been trading messages back and forth all day with a 162/3.94 to discuss options and figure out what is best for him. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on any of this, but I will certainly offer my insights as best I can.

But at the same time, I am a realist. I have many friends in law school and have spoken with many lawyers about legal hiring. Things are bad. When people say go to a T14 or go to the best school or say "Don't go the School X," they aren't being elitist, they are being realistic. Like I said, even lower ranked schools have fantastic facilities, great clinics, great profs, wonderful atmospheres, etc. However, those things are not what you are paying for when you spend 6 figures on a JD. You are paying for a marketable degree so you can get a job.

As far as a retake goes, it really depends on if OP can do better. If he can, then he absolutely should retake.

See? Truthiness =/= douchiness.

[romothesavior]

Haha yeah I'm not elitist at all. I've actually been trading messages back and forth all day with a 162/3.94 to discuss options and figure out what is best for him. I certainly don't claim to be an expert on any of this, but I will certainly offer my insights as best I can.

But at the same time, I am a realist. I have many friends in law school and have spoken with many lawyers about legal hiring. Things are bad. When people say go to a T14 or go to the best school or say "Don't go the School X," they aren't being elitist, they are being realistic. Like I said, even lower ranked schools have fantastic facilities, great clinics, great profs, wonderful atmospheres, etc. However, those things are not what you are paying for when you spend 6 figures on a JD. You are paying for a marketable degree so you can get a job.

As far as a retake goes, it really depends on if OP can do better. If he can, then he absolutely should retake.

See? Truthiness =/= douchiness.

Thanks jackalope. I'm glad to hear you think I've been helpful... I just try to pay it forward. I would never have gotten to where I am without TLS.

By the way, you had it right with the "his." I am a dude.