Reverse Splitter Hell: 3.77/161 Forum

[PlugInBaby]

Got a 161 in September of 2009 and got another 161 this June after PTing in the high 160s. Before I start, yes I do plan on retaking in October and have a plan to remedy what made me bomb the June test. However I want to think of ideas if worst comes to worst and I flop again.

So far the only accessible schools with my stats that I would be happy with seem to be Iowa and Illinois if I ED (also in-state). Do I have as good of a shot as I think I do with those schools with the current numbers. In addition any other schools in Tier 1 that would be friendly to my numbers?

[alicrimson]

Got a 161 in September of 2009 and got another 161 this June after PTing in the high 160s. Before I start, yes I do plan on retaking in October and have a plan to remedy what made me bomb the June test. However I want to think of ideas if worst comes to worst and I flop again.

So far the only accessible schools with my stats that I would be happy with seem to be Iowa and Illinois if I ED (also in-state). Do I have as good of a shot as I think I do with those schools with the current numbers. In addition any other schools in Tier 1 that would be friendly to my numbers?

I'm curious to see responses. I'm sorry I'm not much help in this department, but I'm rooting for you! We're similarish [yours is a little better] and I know the feeling of working really hard all of UG only to be thwarted by a test and someone who could have studied a max of 2 weeks with a sub 3 gpa. Ah, well....

[09042014]

Got a 161 in September of 2009 and got another 161 this June after PTing in the high 160s. Before I start, yes I do plan on retaking in October and have a plan to remedy what made me bomb the June test. However I want to think of ideas if worst comes to worst and I flop again.

So far the only accessible schools with my stats that I would be happy with seem to be Iowa and Illinois if I ED (also in-state). Do I have as good of a shot as I think I do with those schools with the current numbers. In addition any other schools in Tier 1 that would be friendly to my numbers?

I'm curious to see responses. I'm sorry I'm not much help in this department, but I'm rooting for you! We're similarish [yours is a little better] and I know the feeling of working really hard all of UG only to be thwarted by a test and someone who could have studied a max of 2 weeks with a sub 3 gpa. Ah, well....

I'm in your Top Law Schoolz stealin' ur spotz

[PlugInBaby]

Got a 161 in September of 2009 and got another 161 this June after PTing in the high 160s. Before I start, yes I do plan on retaking in October and have a plan to remedy what made me bomb the June test. However I want to think of ideas if worst comes to worst and I flop again.

So far the only accessible schools with my stats that I would be happy with seem to be Iowa and Illinois if I ED (also in-state). Do I have as good of a shot as I think I do with those schools with the current numbers. In addition any other schools in Tier 1 that would be friendly to my numbers?

I'm curious to see responses. I'm sorry I'm not much help in this department, but I'm rooting for you! We're similarish [yours is a little better] and I know the feeling of working really hard all of UG only to be thwarted by a test and someone who could have studied a max of 2 weeks with a sub 3 gpa. Ah, well....

I'm in your Top Law Schoolz stealin' ur spotz

That's why it's reverse splitter hell. Seems to be a lot of places known for being friendly to traditional splitters but not as many for reverse splitters. That is why I am putting up this thread so I along with others in my position would know some good Tier 1 schools to target.

[im_blue]

Got a 161 in September of 2009 and got another 161 this June after PTing in the high 160s. Before I start, yes I do plan on retaking in October and have a plan to remedy what made me bomb the June test. However I want to think of ideas if worst comes to worst and I flop again.

So far the only accessible schools with my stats that I would be happy with seem to be Iowa and Illinois if I ED (also in-state). Do I have as good of a shot as I think I do with those schools with the current numbers. In addition any other schools in Tier 1 that would be friendly to my numbers?

I'm curious to see responses. I'm sorry I'm not much help in this department, but I'm rooting for you! We're similarish [yours is a little better] and I know the feeling of working really hard all of UG only to be thwarted by a test and someone who could have studied a max of 2 weeks with a sub 3 gpa. Ah, well....

I'm in your Top Law Schoolz stealin' ur spotz

That's why it's reverse splitter hell. Seems to be a lot of places known for being friendly to traditional splitters but not as many for reverse splitters. That is why I am putting up this thread so I along with others in my position would know some good Tier 1 schools to target.

The problem is that reverse splitters are a lot more common than splitters, since there are a limited number of high LSAT scores but effectively limitless high GPAs. So schools can be more picky with the reverse splitters, if they take them at all.

[PlugInBaby]

The problem is that reverse splitters are a lot more common than splitters, since there are a limited number of high LSAT scores but effectively limitless high GPAs. So schools can be more picky with the reverse splitters, if they take them at all.

That is a very valid point that I never thought of. I suppose when it comes to sheer volume the LSAT is more important than GPA.

Anyway new approach: here's a heap o' 20 schools (from mega reaches to virtual gimmies) I am considering if status quo remains. Softs are average and I feel I will have a well executed application in general as opposed to my last attempt.

Cal-Berkeley
UCLA
Northwestern
Vanderbilt
USC
George Washington
Minnesota
U of Washington
WUSTL
Iowa
Illinois
Emory
Chicago-Kent
Wisconsin
Arizona State
Florida
Lewis and Clark
Loyola-Chicago
Seattle U
DePaul

If for any of these schools an ED can put me over the top please let me know. Thanks in advance!

[RPK34]

I wouldn't even bother wasting the application fee to a large number of those schools unless you have unwordly softs. From everything from Emory on up, I would just cross of that list.

The rest seem pretty reasonable.

[PlugInBaby]

I wouldn't even bother wasting the application fee to a large number of those schools unless you have unwordly softs. From everything from Emory on up, I would just cross of that list.

The rest seem pretty reasonable.

I have an LSAC fee waiver...I basically plan on being a fee waiver whore.

Anyway why not Iowa or Illinois? According to LSN my area seems to be consistently populated by green and for Illinois I am in-state and could possibly ED.

[im_blue]

I wouldn't even bother wasting the application fee to a large number of those schools unless you have unwordly softs. From everything from Emory on up, I would just cross of that list.

The rest seem pretty reasonable.

I have an LSAC fee waiver...I basically plan on being a fee waiver whore.

Anyway why not Iowa or Illinois? According to LSN my area seems to be consistently populated by green and for Illinois I am in-state and could possibly ED.

I wouldn't waste an ED on Illinois. Only 1 out of 10 3.7+/161 LSN applicants got in this year, and that guy had a 3.9 GPA.

[Notor]

The problem is that reverse splitters are a lot more common than splitters, since there are a limited number of high LSAT scores but effectively limitless high GPAs. So schools can be more picky with the reverse splitters, if they take them at all.

That is a very valid point that I never thought of. I suppose when it comes to sheer volume the LSAT is more important than GPA.

Anyway new approach: here's a heap o' 20 schools (from mega reaches to virtual gimmies) I am considering if status quo remains. Softs are average and I feel I will have a well executed application in general as opposed to my last attempt.

Cal-Berkeley No shot
UCLA No shot
Northwestern No shot
Vanderbilt No shot
USC No shot
George Washington No shot
Minnesota WL
U of Washington IN
WUSTL WL
Iowa WL
Illinois WL
Emory WL
Chicago-Kent IN
Wisconsin WL
Arizona State IN
Florida IN
Lewis and Clark IN
Loyola-Chicago IN
Seattle U IN
DePaul IN

If for any of these schools an ED can put me over the top please let me know. Thanks in advance!

You have no shot at the first few schools whatsoever. If you retook and got a 164ish score you'd be in business for the Big Ten schools on your list with the exception of NW. If you don't retake you are looking iffy on t1 schools (if you get in you won't get money). Don't waste money applying to schools where you don't have a chance.

[im_blue]

The problem is that reverse splitters are a lot more common than splitters, since there are a limited number of high LSAT scores but effectively limitless high GPAs. So schools can be more picky with the reverse splitters, if they take them at all.

That is a very valid point that I never thought of. I suppose when it comes to sheer volume the LSAT is more important than GPA.

Anyway new approach: here's a heap o' 20 schools (from mega reaches to virtual gimmies) I am considering if status quo remains. Softs are average and I feel I will have a well executed application in general as opposed to my last attempt.

Cal-Berkeley No shot
UCLA No shot
Northwestern No shot
Vanderbilt No shot
USC No shot
George Washington No shot
Minnesota WL
U of Washington IN
WUSTL WL
Iowa WL
Illinois WL
Emory WL
Chicago-Kent IN
Wisconsin WL
Arizona State IN
Florida IN
Lewis and Clark IN
Loyola-Chicago IN
Seattle U IN
DePaul IN

If for any of these schools an ED can put me over the top please let me know. Thanks in advance!

You have no shot at the first few schools whatsoever. If you retook and got a 164ish score you'd be in business for the Big Ten schools on your list with the exception of NW. If you don't retake you are looking iffy on t1 schools (if you get in you won't get money). Don't waste money applying to schools where you don't have a chance.

I have an LSAC fee waiver...I basically plan on being a fee waiver whore.

[09042014]

Retake again. Even a couple points would swing you to near full ride at the Chicago T2's.

[Veyron]

What is so hard about APPLYING TO THE BEST SCHOOL IN THE REGION IN WHICH YOU WISH TO PRACTICE?!(!*#(!*

After the T-14 (and certinaly after the T-14 + Texas, UCLA, and Vandy), schools are ALL REGIONAL.

Don't apply to Seattle U, Florida, and ASU unless you would be happy to practice in either Washington, Florida, or Arizona.

*Bangs head against wall*

[PlugInBaby]

What is so hard about APPLYING TO THE BEST SCHOOL IN THE REGION IN WHICH YOU WISH TO PRACTICE?!(!*#(!*

After the T-14 (and certinaly after the T-14 + Texas, UCLA, and Vandy), schools are ALL REGIONAL.

Don't apply to Seattle U, Florida, and ASU unless you would be happy to practice in either Washington, Florida, or Arizona.

*Bangs head against wall*

Can i infer that you perceive every school from 20-100 as equal? If not regardless of location would you prefer Tier 1 sticker/$ or Tier 2 $$-$$$$? Question open to anyone as I am just trying to consider if its best to priortize prestige ovr scholly money or vice versa. I am thinking putting more of a premium on prestige since the field I want to go into I would have to blaze my own trail as there is little precedent.

Ftr I am retaking in October...my PT average was 169...I just laid an egg on test day and working on the reasons why I choked. I do want to prepare for worst case scenario though.

[Notor]

Can i infer that you perceive every school from 20-100 as equal? If not regardless of location would you prefer Tier 1 sticker/$ or Tier 2 $$-$$$$? Question open to anyone as I am just trying to consider if its best to priortize prestige ovr scholly money or vice versa. I am thinking putting more of a premium on prestige since the field I want to go into I would have to blaze my own trail as there is little precedent.

Ftr I am retaking in October...my PT average was 169...I just laid an egg on test day and working on the reasons why I choked. I do want to prepare for worst case scenario though.

No, every school is not equal. However, if you want to be in a specific region, after you get out of the t17 or so schools become predominantly regional. For instance, if you want to live/practice in Seattle, don't go to Minnesota even if it's ranked higher than UW.

[BaiAilian2013]

If I had your aspirations, I would not want a high debt load...

[Grizz]

Can i infer that you perceive every school from 20-100 as equal? If not regardless of location would you prefer Tier 1 sticker/$ or Tier 2 $$-$$$$? Question open to anyone as I am just trying to consider if its best to priortize prestige ovr scholly money or vice versa. I am thinking putting more of a premium on prestige since the field I want to go into I would have to blaze my own trail as there is little precedent.

Ftr I am retaking in October...my PT average was 169...I just laid an egg on test day and working on the reasons why I choked. I do want to prepare for worst case scenario though.

Impossible to have a general consensus without knowing schools and desired region.

[Veyron]

What is so hard about APPLYING TO THE BEST SCHOOL IN THE REGION IN WHICH YOU WISH TO PRACTICE?!(!*#(!*

After the T-14 (and certinaly after the T-14 + Texas, UCLA, and Vandy), schools are ALL REGIONAL.

Don't apply to Seattle U, Florida, and ASU unless you would be happy to practice in either Washington, Florida, or Arizona.

*Bangs head against wall*

Can i infer that you perceive every school from 20-100 as equal? If not regardless of location would you prefer Tier 1 sticker/$ or Tier 2 $$-$$$$? Question open to anyone as I am just trying to consider if its best to priortize prestige ovr scholly money or vice versa. I am thinking putting more of a premium on prestige since the field I want to go into I would have to blaze my own trail as there is little precedent.

Ftr I am retaking in October...my PT average was 169...I just laid an egg on test day and working on the reasons why I choked. I do want to prepare for worst case scenario though.

No, GW is better than Mason for D.C. but will place similarly in CA. You it would be wise to take GW even if offered slightly more $ at Mason. However, higher ranking does not always correlate with better placement even within a region. For instance, ASU and U of A have similar placement power in AZ in spite of a difference of over 10 spots. It would be wise to attend the one that gave you the most $. At the point where we are talking about schools ranked below 17, there is little rhyme or reason behind school perception and you should speak to practitioners in your preferred city in order to figure out what (if any) hierarchy exists among local schools. The MOST that can be said is that I don't know of any case where the higher ranked school is not percieved to be at least tied for best placement among local schools. In no case does it make sense to go to a school outside of the region in which you wish to practice just because it is higher ranked unless that school is ranked at least 17th (and even then I have heard noises to the effect that Texas, Vandy, and UCLA are still regional schools but have extremely large regions where they are considered good (i.e. Texas, California, the South). Whereas UH will place best in Houston (for example) UT will place similarly well in Houston and Dallas. Because of this, one might say that schools ranked 15-17 are "super-regionals".

[PlugInBaby]

So I take it the rule would be if location doesn't matter take the school which allows you to graduate with the less amount of debt or offers the most career opportunities, whichever I think would be top priority. For a coarse example lets say I get into Arizona State at sticker and Chicago-Kent with $$$. If I want better career opportunities I take ASU. If I want less debt I take Kent.

Not only am I trying to figure out possible schools I am also trying to figure out what factors to priortize over others (career opportunities, career location, total COA, ranking, school location). Right now I am leaning toward going to a Tier 1 or 2 for the least amount of cost, but a good combination of career opportunities and location could trump that.

[Veyron]

So I take it the rule would be if location doesn't matter take the school which allows you to graduate with the less amount of debt or offers the most career opportunities, whichever I think would be top priority. For a coarse example lets say I get into Arizona State at sticker and Chicago-Kent with $$$. If I want better career opportunities I take ASU. If I want less debt I take Kent.

Not only am I trying to figure out possible schools I am also trying to figure out what factors to priortize over others (career opportunities, career location, total COA, ranking, school location). Right now I am leaning toward going to a Tier 1 or 2 for the least amount of cost, but a good combination of career opportunities and location could trump that.

You are 100% correct. For what its worth, the top 1/2 at ASU and U of A have a decent shot at 60-90k midlaw (which exists in AZ) in a normal economy. If you haven't yet decided on a place to make a career, I encourage you to visit beautiful Arizona!

[pjo]

No, GW is better than Mason for D.C. but will place similarly in CA. You it would be wise to take GW even if offered slightly more $ at Mason. However, higher ranking does not always correlate with better placement even within a region. For instance, ASU and U of A have similar placement power in AZ in spite of a difference of over 10 spots. It would be wise to attend the one that gave you the most $. At the point where we are talking about schools ranked below 17, there is little rhyme or reason behind school perception and you should speak to practitioners in your preferred city in order to figure out what (if any) hierarchy exists among local schools. The MOST that can be said is that I don't know of any case where the higher ranked school is not percieved to be at least tied for best placement among local schools. In no case does it make sense to go to a school outside of the region in which you wish to practice just because it is higher ranked unless that school is ranked at least 17th (and even then I have heard noises to the effect that Texas, Vandy, and UCLA are still regional schools but have extremely large regions where they are considered good (i.e. Texas, California, the South). Whereas UH will place best in Houston (for example) UT will place similarly well in Houston and Dallas. Because of this, one might say that schools ranked 15-17 are "super-regionals".

see I understand this general concept, but I think some regions get fuzzy, like you made mention with GMU/GWU. I want to practice in 1)Northern VA or 2) Southern VA/Richmond etc.. Veryron, what school would you suggest I attend if my numbers are 3.94/162. Obviously, I should go the the school with the best regional placement but I'm having difficulty deciphering the hierarchy for the VA region relative to where I have a shot of getting in.

[Veyron]

No, GW is better than Mason for D.C. but will place similarly in CA. You it would be wise to take GW even if offered slightly more $ at Mason. However, higher ranking does not always correlate with better placement even within a region. For instance, ASU and U of A have similar placement power in AZ in spite of a difference of over 10 spots. It would be wise to attend the one that gave you the most $. At the point where we are talking about schools ranked below 17, there is little rhyme or reason behind school perception and you should speak to practitioners in your preferred city in order to figure out what (if any) hierarchy exists among local schools. The MOST that can be said is that I don't know of any case where the higher ranked school is not percieved to be at least tied for best placement among local schools. In no case does it make sense to go to a school outside of the region in which you wish to practice just because it is higher ranked unless that school is ranked at least 17th (and even then I have heard noises to the effect that Texas, Vandy, and UCLA are still regional schools but have extremely large regions where they are considered good (i.e. Texas, California, the South). Whereas UH will place best in Houston (for example) UT will place similarly well in Houston and Dallas. Because of this, one might say that schools ranked 15-17 are "super-regionals".

see I understand this general concept, but I think some regions get fuzzy, like you made mention with GMU/GWU. I want to practice in 1)Northern VA or 2) Southern VA/Richmond etc.. Veryron, what school would you suggest I attend if my numbers are 3.94/162. Obviously, I should go the the school with the best regional placement but I'm having difficulty deciphering the hierarchy for the VA region relative to where I have a shot of getting in.

For NOVA GW (nova is realy just DC burbs). For southern VA as far as I know it doesn't matter. You may even want to look into Richmond Law if you can get some $ there. Some V.A. people have told me that the are best tapped into the "old boy" network in some southern/central parts of the state. Like many people have pointed out, below the top schools, connections are what get you a job.

[pjo]

veyron, what do you think my chances are at GW? At this point its my top choice. I'm willing to pay sticker, and I'll be applying the first week apps are open FWIW. I'm also throwing apps to W&M, GMU, maybe Richmond now


alicrimson- how did you score? I thought for sure you were going to be in the mid 160's from how it sounded in the "june waiting" thread

[Grizz]

veyron, what do you think my chances are at GW? At this point its my top choice. I'm willing to pay sticker, and I'll be applying the first week apps are open FWIW. I'm also throwing apps to W&M, GMU, maybe Richmond now

Sticker at GW? I wouldn't do that if I were you.

[alicrimson]

veyron, what do you think my chances are at GW? At this point its my top choice. I'm willing to pay sticker, and I'll be applying the first week apps are open FWIW. I'm also throwing apps to W&M, GMU, maybe Richmond now


alicrimson- how did you score? I thought for sure you were going to be in the mid 160's from how it sounded in the "june waiting" thread

Bad,bad,bad...I hit a 160. I'm aiming for UF,FSU,Miami with a 3.74 [hopefully 3.78 at the end of summer]. Retake here I come.