3.51 GPA at a Top 20 undergrad, what LSAT is needed for UCLA Forum

[BumpRnB]

With a 3.51 from a top 20, what LSAT is needed to most likely get into UCLA? Also, if I early decision UCLA will that help?

Also what about for NYU?

Thanks

[im_blue]

Slim chance below 170, about 50/50 with a 170-171

Decent chance at NYU with a 172, great chance with a 173

[Woozy]

Since you are a splitter for UCLA, an ED would greatly improve your chances. If you ED your chances will be better than blue's info, which represents all applicants. I think if you hit 168-169 and ED at UCLA, you have a shot at acceptance and you will at least ride the waitlist. At 170, I have to believe that you are in with ED. Of course, if you get a 169+ you have to carefully consider your geographic preferences. If your heart is not set on LA and more specifically UCLA (asking about NYU is a hint it may not be) then you probably don't want to use your ED there.

[BumpRnB]

Since you are a splitter for UCLA, an ED would greatly improve your chances. If you ED your chances will be better than blue's info, which represents all applicants. I think if you hit 168-169 and ED at UCLA, you have a shot at acceptance and you will at least ride the waitlist. At 170, I have to believe that you are in with ED. Of course, if you get a 169+ you have to carefully consider your geographic preferences. If your heart is not set on LA and more specifically UCLA (asking about NYU is a hint it may not be) then you probably don't want to use your ED there.

What does splitter mean? I'm taking the October 9th LSAT. I'm aiming for schools from UCLA to NYU rankings-wise. Geographic location isn't that big of a deal, I just wanted a better chance of getting in and I know UCLA has a ED option so that's why I asked.

So if I ED at UCLA a 168 should be enough?

[rklafehn]

Splitter = High LSAT / Low GPA
Reverse splitter = Low LSAT / High GPA

The words high and low are very relative. Since you want to go to UCLA, if you in face obtain an LSAT that allows you to be accepted, you will be a splitter.

UCLA's GPA 25th / 75th percentile are 3.57-3.88. UCLA's 25th / 75th percentile LSAT are 164-169.

Since your GPA is below their 25th percentile, getting an LSAT real close to or above their 75th percentile LSAT would give you the best chance at being accepted. You would be below the 25th percentile in GPA and at or above the 75th percentile LSAT would make you a splitter.

In my opinion, you would probably need at least 168 (and yes ED often helps).

[Woozy]

What does splitter mean? I'm taking the October 9th LSAT. I'm aiming for schools from UCLA to NYU rankings-wise. Geographic location isn't that big of a deal, I just wanted a better chance of getting in and I know UCLA has a ED option so that's why I asked.

So if I ED at UCLA a 168 should be enough?

It gives you a chance, in a way that a 167, which is below median, definitely does not. I won't say it should be enough - most likely you will be waitlisted with a 168 ED. I would say you need to get to 170 to feel confident of admission.

And again, that brings up the geographical question. If you don't care where you end up, why target UCLA? Their well known penchant for GPA means you are starting at a disadvantage. At any given LSAT score, you could probably make it into a higher-ranked school that is less GPA-focused.

[BumpRnB]

Splitter = High LSAT / Low GPA
Reverse splitter = Low LSAT / High GPA

The words high and low are very relative. Since you want to go to UCLA, if you in face obtain an LSAT that allows you to be accepted, you will be a splitter.

UCLA's GPA 25th / 75th percentile are 3.57-3.88. UCLA's 25th / 75th percentile LSAT are 164-169.

Since your GPA is below their 25th percentile, getting an LSAT real close to or above their 75th percentile LSAT would give you the best chance at being accepted. You would be below the 25th percentile in GPA and at or above the 75th percentile LSAT would make you a splitter.

In my opinion, you would probably need at least 168 (and yes ED often helps).

Thanks for the help

So from what I've heard, 168 to have a chance, 170 to be comfortable then (w/ED).

What does splitter mean? I'm taking the October 9th LSAT. I'm aiming for schools from UCLA to NYU rankings-wise. Geographic location isn't that big of a deal, I just wanted a better chance of getting in and I know UCLA has a ED option so that's why I asked.

So if I ED at UCLA a 168 should be enough?

It gives you a chance, in a way that a 167, which is below median, definitely does not. I won't say it should be enough - most likely you will be waitlisted with a 168 ED. I would say you need to get to 170 to feel confident of admission.

And again, that brings up the geographical question. If you don't care where you end up, why target UCLA? Their well known penchant for GPA means you are starting at a disadvantage. At any given LSAT score, you could probably make it into a higher-ranked school that is less GPA-focused.

I don't care that much about location, like it's not a deal breaker, but I would prefer the LA location if I can get in there.

What are good T14 schools for splitters like me to target then? Hypothetically, if I had a 170 and a 3.51, what schools would I have the best chance at then?

[jay115]

Just keep in mind that everyone's opinions on this thread are obviously just opinions.

I think you have a very good shot with a 3.5/167 ED. I think a lot of schools are looking to up their yield rates, and UCLA is one school that appreciates applicants who are truly interested in attending. Visit, shoot some emails to Dean Schwartz during the decision process, and see how you do.

[im_blue]

Just keep in mind that everyone's opinions on this thread are obviously just opinions.

I think you have a very good shot with a 3.5/167 ED. I think a lot of schools are looking to up their yield rates, and UCLA is one school that appreciates applicants who are truly interested in attending. Visit, shoot some emails to Dean Schwartz during the decision process, and see how you do.

Non-URMs aren't going to have any chance with both numbers below the medians of 3.75/168. IMO, chances would start at 3.5/168 ED.

[BumpRnB]

Just keep in mind that everyone's opinions on this thread are obviously just opinions.

I think you have a very good shot with a 3.5/167 ED. I think a lot of schools are looking to up their yield rates, and UCLA is one school that appreciates applicants who are truly interested in attending. Visit, shoot some emails to Dean Schwartz during the decision process, and see how you do.

Thanks . And yes I understand that these are just opinions, won't hold it against any of you if what you said doesn't happen lol. But thank you for the advice.

Also about emailing the dean, that sounds like a really good idea. Is this usual protocol or something that is recommended to do for applicants or early decision applicants? Is Dean Schwartz's email even listed anywhere? If I do email would it be just to introduce myself? Isn't that just like a personal statement or is that a little different. What other things would be good to include in an email if I do send one?

Sorry for the barrage of questions and thanks for the answers in advance.

Non-URMs aren't going to have any chance with both numbers below the medians of 3.75/168. IMO, chances would start at 3.5/168 ED.

Thanks for the info. So from this thread with my gpa I should be aiming for a 171+ to be sure even with an ED?

[arklogic]

What's the jump in LSAT needed for probable admission from UCLA to NYU (both ED) with the 3.51?

[Woozy]

I don't care that much about location, like it's not a deal breaker, but I would prefer the LA location if I can get in there.

What are good T14 schools for splitters like me to target then? Hypothetically, if I had a 170 and a 3.51, what schools would I have the best chance at then?

NYU is OK for splitters, especially since you are only a mild splitter. Of course, as has been mentioned, you probably need to reach the 172/173+ range for them.

The real splitter friendly T14s are UVA and Northwestern. However, if you are coming straight from undergrad, then don't bother with Northwestern. 1-2 years of significant (post-undergrad) work experience is pretty much a prerequisite for them.

UVA lets in EDers with 170/3.0 so if you get to the magic 170 you would be a lock (with ED). And, the beauty of UVA ED is that it lasts late into the cycle, so you could probably ED to NYU and if rejected or waitlisted, follow up with a later ED to UVA. Of course, you'd have to check the exact wording of the agreements and timing, but I'm pretty sure there are at least a few people on these boards who are going to UVA this year after applying there as their 2nd (or even 3rd) ED.

[clintonius]

I'd be careful about calling anyone a "lock" at UVA, given the small number of seats they have to offer for out-of-staters. But yeah, if you can pull off a 170, ED, and write a convincing "why UVA?" statement, I'd imagine you have a very good shot there.

[jay115]

Just keep in mind that everyone's opinions on this thread are obviously just opinions.

I think you have a very good shot with a 3.5/167 ED. I think a lot of schools are looking to up their yield rates, and UCLA is one school that appreciates applicants who are truly interested in attending. Visit, shoot some emails to Dean Schwartz during the decision process, and see how you do.

Non-URMs aren't going to have any chance with both numbers below the medians of 3.75/168. IMO, chances would start at 3.5/168 ED.

I am not a URM, and I am an accept ED applicant into UCLA with identical numbers. UCLA, IMO, is a truly holistic school and really do put numbers on the back burner because so many people apply.

Granted, if OP is a rich white male from the tri-state area with average LORs and an O.K. personal statement, then I'm sure the "holistic" sword cuts both ways.

[BumpRnB]

Just keep in mind that everyone's opinions on this thread are obviously just opinions.

I think you have a very good shot with a 3.5/167 ED. I think a lot of schools are looking to up their yield rates, and UCLA is one school that appreciates applicants who are truly interested in attending. Visit, shoot some emails to Dean Schwartz during the decision process, and see how you do.

Non-URMs aren't going to have any chance with both numbers below the medians of 3.75/168. IMO, chances would start at 3.5/168 ED.

I am not a URM, and I am an accept ED applicant into UCLA with identical numbers. UCLA, IMO, is a truly holistic school and really do put numbers on the back burner because so many people apply.

Granted, if OP is a rich white male from the tri-state area with average LORs and an O.K. personal statement, then I'm sure the "holistic" sword cuts both ways.

So you had a 3.5/167 and did an ED at UCLA and got accepted? When did you apply for ED? I'm taking the October LSAT so probably can't get scores until early November so I'm planning to apply ED to UCLA then. Is this too late or about the norm for ED applicants?

And did you email Dean Schwartz beforehand? How did you get his email and what did you say?

And fyi, if it helps with making a better guess, I'm not a rich white male, never was considered rich (low-middle class growing up) and I'm a white female, so I am not a URM.

Thanks for the help