Non Traditional 3.79/173 Advice Forum

[big_blue79]

Forgive my newness to the board lingo...

Strengths: Strong softs (6 years Air Force), professional technical career for 3 years after, good LoRs, good essay

Weaknesses: 6 undergrad schools (from moving so much), never left less than 3.58 or in bad standing, finished BA at fully accredited (regional) online school

Misc: married, no kids, 31, white male

I'm finishing up apps now, got a lot of fee waivers so I've hit up Columbia/NYU/GULC/Berkeley/Chicago/UVA/UCLA/Texas/Cornell/Penn. Should I put in some safer schools? Thinking about George Mason/GW in case. UNLV is my ultimate "oh no" only because I live in and love Las Vegas.

Thanks for any input!

[drsomebody]

It looks to me like you have all the ingredients for a fantastic application that could be competitive at any school. The only trick will be to convince the committee that your undergrad "issue" isn't really an issue. Perhaps you could weave that into your personal statement somehow? I would be shocked if you didn't get into many of the schools you listed. IMHO no need to spend more $ on "safety" schools. If I were you, I'd even put in an application to Harvard and Yale (if you would desire to go there).

[BenJ]

The boost to ex-military is huge, close to URM-level. You should be able to get in at Yale; they love people with "life stories". Definitely apply to all of HYS. You don't need any safer schools than Texas and UCLA; I wouldn't be surprised if Texas gave you a full ride. Apply to GW if you feel like it, but you don't need to.

The UG stuff, like said above, could be woven into an interesting PS, but military or current work experience might be a better use of your PS. Either way, a messy UG career is not terribly important so far after graduation, especially since you finished with a strong GPA (even if it was from an online college) and had the military as an obvious reason for the transfers. Actually, I'm not sure if getting your degree from an online college hurts at all, but it might not. Few schools care about where you went to undergrad, even among the top ones.

Edit: Actually, if it was a regional school rather than something like University of Phoenix, the law schools probably won't even know that you got your degree through online classes.

[mhernton]

Two Criticisms -- Air Force??? what???? Navy guy myself so I'm just kidding. On the serious side, you've put yourself at a significant disadvantage by applying to late. Statistics indicate that 90% of apps are received within 48hrs of the deadlines for schools. By that point schools have offered up 75%-90% of their seats.

All of that is mitigated by a 173 LSAT and being a non-traditional candidate.

I'm in Kuwait right now and did all of my apps from here and also took the LSAT out here. I didn't do well, but I did get into a top 30 school with a 155LSAT. BTW as a non-traditional candidate and depending on how long ago you finished up your BA, most schools significantly increase the importance of your LSAT score, so I think your golden and most of the T14. I personally think Yale is a stretch, possibly Harvard too, but Stanford may be a possibility. For the rest of the T30, it will depend on their desire to round out their class diversity as far as Vets are concerned. That is advantage of applying early.

good Luck. If you have any ?'s about my package, pm me...

Make sure your application is bullet proof, and be sure to indicate why you want to go to law school.

[Renzo]

I assume that you went to so many schools because you were concurrently on active duty, no? If this is the case, schools will understand that, and it won't hold you back. Apply to all the T14 schools you'd consider attending, maybe add a few fallback schools if you're nervous. I'll bet you find yourself at a top 10 school.

[Sauer Grapes]

....

[big_blue79]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll update when I hear back (probably not for a few months). I wish I would have found these forums sooner.

Mherton - I almost joined the Navy, but then I decided I enjoy golf too much I'm actually in Iraq at the moment, and I got delayed on an LoR (last minute change by me) due to slow mail. My old lady didn't like Palo Alto when we visited, but loved Berkeley, and I tended to agree.

I'm probably not applying to HYS for location reasons if nothing else. Is there a big enough difference between CCN and schools like UVA/GULC/etc to justify living somewhere less desirable for 3 years? I see a lot of advice on these forums to eschew say a GULC for an NYU as a no brainer.

[BenJ]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I'll update when I hear back (probably not for a few months). I wish I would have found these forums sooner.

Mherton - I almost joined the Navy, but then I decided I enjoy golf too much I'm actually in Iraq at the moment, and I got delayed on an LoR (last minute change by me) due to slow mail. My old lady didn't like Palo Alto when we visited, but loved Berkeley, and I tended to agree.

I'm probably not applying to HYS for location reasons if nothing else. Is there a big enough difference between CCN and schools like UVA/GULC/etc to justify living somewhere less desirable for 3 years? I see a lot of advice on these forums to eschew say a GULC for an NYU as a no brainer.

To some extent, it depends on where you want to work. If you want to work in DC, GULC and (moreso) UVA will be on equal footing with CCN. If you want to work elsewhere in the country, CCN outperform GULC and UVA substantially in terms of job placement, and the latter two should only be considered with substantial scholarship money. Similar applies for most T14 schools. Poor Cornell doesn't place on equal footing with Columbia or NYU anywhere and so is always a lower choice barring scholarship money.

[ArmyVet07]

I'm guessing you qualify for the Post-9/11 GI Bill, in which case money won't be as much of a factor, but the benefit level differs by state. Here is a list of the tuition/fees it covers by state:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/C ... d_fees.htm

Also, check out the Yellow Ribbon Program:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/C ... P_List.htm

[derwin]

My personal advice is that since you have the numbers, you had ought to apply to Yale, Harvard, and Standard too. Decide you don't want to go there after you get in, not before. The difference between these schools is such a complicated issue that no short answer would do; you ought to do much more thorough research than just reading message board postings.

Get those applications in to HYS now and decide later once you have more time.

[big_blue79]

I'm guessing you qualify for the Post-9/11 GI Bill, in which case money won't be as much of a factor, but the benefit level differs by state. Here is a list of the tuition/fees it covers by state:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/C ... d_fees.htm

Also, check out the Yellow Ribbon Program:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/C ... P_List.htm

I have the full Post-9/11 with the top up as well. I'm hoping for Yellow Ribbon as well, but if they go by my last 3 tax returns I'll get jack and squat. Also, I'll have a lot saved up since I'm leaving a good paying job.

My personal advice is that since you have the numbers, you had ought to apply to Yale, Harvard, and Standard too. Decide you don't want to go there after you get in, not before. The difference between these schools is such a complicated issue that no short answer would do; you ought to do much more thorough research than just reading message board postings.

Get those applications in to HYS now and decide later once you have more time.

Thanks. I've done a lot of research, but in general I've come to rely on the wisdom of the crowds as a good supplement to what I can gather from more traditional sources. Your point is well taken, though.

I'll be applying to Yale at least. However, I have to convince my wife (who's never lived east of Nevada or driven in the snow), and she needs a college nearby for nursing (Rn, 3 years left). I've convinced her that #1 is worth it, but she seems set against Harvard for no good reason. I suppose I should apply to all and at least have the option since application fees are not an issue.

My LoRs don't come from professors (boss and a coworker/retired CMSgt, both excellent writers), so I'm not sure how that will fly at Stanford. I suppose that it would work with an addendum? In fact, would an addendum explaining why I don't have academics doing my LoRs be recommended for all schools? Or should it be self evident?

[Renzo]

I'm guessing you qualify for the Post-9/11 GI Bill, in which case money won't be as much of a factor, but the benefit level differs by state. Here is a list of the tuition/fees it covers by state:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/C ... d_fees.htm

Also, check out the Yellow Ribbon Program:

http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/C ... P_List.htm

I have the full Post-9/11 with the top up as well. I'm hoping for Yellow Ribbon as well, but if they go by my last 3 tax returns I'll get jack and squat. Also, I'll have a lot saved up since I'm leaving a good paying job.

My personal advice is that since you have the numbers, you had ought to apply to Yale, Harvard, and Standard too. Decide you don't want to go there after you get in, not before. The difference between these schools is such a complicated issue that no short answer would do; you ought to do much more thorough research than just reading message board postings.

Get those applications in to HYS now and decide later once you have more time.

Thanks. I've done a lot of research, but in general I've come to rely on the wisdom of the crowds as a good supplement to what I can gather from more traditional sources. Your point is well taken, though.

I'll be applying to Yale at least. However, I have to convince my wife (who's never lived east of Nevada or driven in the snow), and she needs a college nearby for nursing (Rn, 3 years left). I've convinced her that #1 is worth it, but she seems set against Harvard for no good reason. I suppose I should apply to all and at least have the option since application fees are not an issue.

My LoRs don't come from professors (boss and a coworker/retired CMSgt, both excellent writers), so I'm not sure how that will fly at Stanford. I suppose that it would work with an addendum? In fact, would an addendum explaining why I don't have academics doing my LoRs be recommended for all schools? Or should it be self evident?

If you go to Cambridge, she won't have to drive in the snow, because she won't have to drive!

[hellojd]

Two Criticisms -- Air Force??? what???? Navy guy myself so I'm just kidding. On the serious side, you've put yourself at a significant disadvantage by applying to late. Statistics indicate that 90% of apps are received within 48hrs of the deadlines for schools. By that point schools have offered up 75%-90% of their seats.

Huh?

Could you point to these stats?

At first I thought this was a joke, but you did say on the serious side...

[im_blue]

You should easily get into all of CCN and should attend one of them, unless you get a full ride from a T10 or something. You should at least apply to Harvard, if not all of HYS.

[portena]

Two Criticisms -- Air Force??? what???? Navy guy myself so I'm just kidding. On the serious side, you've put yourself at a significant disadvantage by applying to late. Statistics indicate that 90% of apps are received within 48hrs of the deadlines for schools. By that point schools have offered up 75%-90% of their seats.

Huh?

Could you point to these stats?

At first I thought this was a joke, but you did say on the serious side...

Yeah, that 90% statistic...is that true? I mean, maybe at Cooley, but suuuurely 90% of t-14 applicants don't hit submit the night before. Did you just make that up?

[big_blue79]

[quote="portena]Yeah, that 90% statistic...is that true? I mean, maybe at Cooley, but suuuurely 90% of t-14 applicants don't hit submit the night before. Did you just make that up?[/quote]

I took it as facetious but with a point. Applying late does hurt, but I do not think it's the end of the world just yet. I think the biggest hit is money/scholarships.