URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT Forum
- groundkontrol
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:25 am
URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
Posted this a month ago with my old LSAT score. I figured I'd post again and get some thoughts.
URM African-American Male
3.4 GPA from Cornell
Master's at Columbia
159 December LSAT (153 previous)
All apps were submitted in November and went complete at the beginning of the month when my December score arrived.
Already took 1 year off to do my master's so I definitely don't want to take another year off to apply next cycle.
Am I out of luck for the T14?
URM African-American Male
3.4 GPA from Cornell
Master's at Columbia
159 December LSAT (153 previous)
All apps were submitted in November and went complete at the beginning of the month when my December score arrived.
Already took 1 year off to do my master's so I definitely don't want to take another year off to apply next cycle.
Am I out of luck for the T14?
Last edited by groundkontrol on Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:35 am, edited 2 times in total.
- groundkontrol
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:25 am
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
96 views and no responses? ![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
- vanwinkle
- Posts: 8953
- Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.
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Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
Probably in at Cornell.
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- Joined: Sun Jan 17, 2010 3:38 am
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
Try rank 20-30. I think Top 19 aside from wash u st. louis, has alot of asians, enough to not count you as a minority. I think.
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- groundkontrol
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:25 am
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
Confused by the asian reference. AA means African-American not Asian-American. I'm black. Just changed the thread title and posting for clarity.bomedtheLSAT101 wrote:Try rank 20-30. I think Top 19 aside from wash u st. louis, has alot of asians, enough to not count you as a minority. I think.
Last edited by groundkontrol on Mon Jan 18, 2010 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
- vanwinkle
- Posts: 8953
- Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
That dude is newer to TLS than you are, he has no idea what he's talking about, just ignore him and pay attention to everyone else and you'll be fine.groundkontrol wrote:Confused by the asian reference. AA means African-American not Asian-American. I'm black.bomedtheLSAT101 wrote:Try rank 20-30. I think Top 19 aside from wash u st. louis, has alot of asians, enough to not count you as a minority. I think.
- groundkontrol
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:25 am
Re: URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
The next time I could retake would be in June, which would put me into the next cycle. I already took a year off to do my master's and I'm not going to take another year off.amg0996 wrote:Retake
- PDaddy
- Posts: 2063
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.vanwinkle wrote:You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.
- najumobi
- Posts: 1054
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:36 pm
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
this is his 2nd test (153 on first test)...so his score band isn't 156-162...it's probably 154-158PDaddy wrote:But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.vanwinkle wrote:You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.
Last edited by najumobi on Mon Jan 18, 2010 4:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
- vanwinkle
- Posts: 8953
- Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
No, having a 160 or greater would make him a 160+. I'm not saying he doesn't have a chance, just that he has a much weaker chance IMO because he's not in the 160+ range.PDaddy wrote:But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.
The LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between one number and another, but they still seem to draw important psychological lines that adcomms follow. See also: 169 vs. 170 when trying to get into lower T14.
- najumobi
- Posts: 1054
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:36 pm
Re: URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
you're not out of luck at the T14....depending on your softs you could get into any one of the T14 (outside HYS) but you have by far the best chances at cornell...at least 66% or what i would consider a strong target.groundkontrol wrote:Posted this a month ago with my old LSAT score. I figured I'd post again and get some thoughts.
URM African-American Male
3.4 GPA from Cornell
Master's at Columbia
159 December LSAT (153 previous)
All apps were submitted in November and went complete at the beginning of the month when my December score arrived.
Already took 1 year off to do my master's so I definitely don't want to take another year off to apply next cycle.
Am I out of luck for the T14?
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- groundkontrol
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:25 am
Re: URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
Thanks! I really hope everything works out. Where did the 66% number come from?najumobi wrote:you're not out of luck at the T14....depending on your softs you could get into any one of the T14 (outside HYS) but you have by far the best chances at cornell...at least 66% or what i would consider a strong target.groundkontrol wrote:Posted this a month ago with my old LSAT score. I figured I'd post again and get some thoughts.
URM African-American Male
3.4 GPA from Cornell
Master's at Columbia
159 December LSAT (153 previous)
All apps were submitted in November and went complete at the beginning of the month when my December score arrived.
Already took 1 year off to do my master's so I definitely don't want to take another year off to apply next cycle.
Am I out of luck for the T14?
- PDaddy
- Posts: 2063
- Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 4:40 am
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
Ok, if you count averages. But if OP writes an addendum explaining the jump, he's fine. Most schools consider 4+ points a "significant" jump. If I am an adcom, I count the higher score and its score band. Put it like this. An adcom is likely to ask what would happen if OP took the test a third time. The odds are that he would improve by 1-4 points, possibly more. I do agree with the idea that there's a psychological "fault line" of sorts between 159 and 160, but I believe the score jump diminishes that for OP.najumobi wrote:this is his 2nd test (153 on first test)...so his score band isn't 156-162...it's probably 154-158PDaddy wrote:But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.vanwinkle wrote:You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.
- nyyankees
- Posts: 484
- Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:50 am
Re: URM AA Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
PDaddy wrote:Ok, if you count averages. But if OP writes an addendum explaining the jump, he's fine. Most schools consider 4+ points a "significant" jump. If I am an adcom, I count the higher score and its score band. Put it like this. An adcom is likely to ask what would happen if OP took the test a third time. The odds are that he would improve by 1-4 points, possibly more. I do agree with the idea that there's a psychological "fault line" of sorts between 159 and 160, but I believe the score jump diminishes that for OP.najumobi wrote:this is his 2nd test (153 on first test)...so his score band isn't 156-162...it's probably 154-158PDaddy wrote:But wouldn't his score band (156-162) make him a 160+? He did improve his score by six points. That's an upward trend. Besides, the LSAT can't meaningfully predict differences between a 159 and a 160. That's why the error exists.vanwinkle wrote:You might get lower T14. LSAT is a little low, given that your GPA is not great. Usually I think it's at least 160+ (though at least you got it up some from that 153). I think you'll just have to wait and see.
all kinds of fail in the bolded. adcomm sees his second score and assumes his real band is somewhere in between. Ultimately, its not about their assumptions of innate ability as much as it is about what score they would report to usnwr, which is a 159
- groundkontrol
- Posts: 183
- Joined: Tue Feb 03, 2009 12:25 am
Re: URM Black Male, 3.4 Ivy, 159 LSAT
Yeah I understand that the 159 as opposed to a 160 messed me up. But I guess we'll see what happens.
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