3.33 GPA, 175 LSAT, non-URM - what are my chances? Forum

[laika86]

I have a 3.33 GPA from a top 5 liberal arts college. OK extracurriculars - nothing significant or unique and no leadership positions.

I took the LSAT twice - 164 the first time (5 minutes were cut off of two of the sections, I submitted an addendum explaining the situation) 175 the second time.

I have somewhat interesting work experience. I worked on the 2008 presidential campaign, interned on the Hill at a legal non-profit, and work at a law school. I would say that my essay is pretty good.

What are my chances at the following schools (I applied to a lot because of fee waivers)?

Northwestern
Duke
Georgetown
Harvard
Virginia
Columbia
NYU
Penn
Vanderbilt
Michigan
UCLA
Wash U St. Louis

[Eruannon]

Harvard and Columbia are a long shot. Have a good chance at the rest, minus Northwestern unless that work experience came after undergrad, this is all according to LSP http://www.lawschoolpredictor.com

[Tangerine Gleam]

I took the LSAT twice - 164 the first time (5 minutes were cut off of two of the sections, I submitted an addendum explaining the situation) 175 the second time.

Wow. That is terrible. I'm really sorry to hear that this happened.

When did you submit your apps?

[laika86]

Sorry I should clarify - the work experience did come after graduation. I graduated in May, 2008.

[AngryAvocado]

We have similar stats, including a similar retake.

HYSC are out, Chi+NYU are realistic reaches, and MVP (write the "Why" essays) should be targets. In the past, I would have said you should get one of CCN but I'm more pessimistic after watching the way this cycle is playing out. Duke/UCLA seems to like high GPAs, so I wouldn't count on them, but I like your chances at Georgetown and Northwestern so I'd consider those your safeties. You should be in everywhere else, possibly with some $$.

HTH, and good luck.

[laika86]

Yeah I figured that Harvard and Columbia are extremely unlikely. Harvard was my original "reach" - I'm just hoping they read my essay, recommendations, etc. and like what they see. I'm only applying to Columbia because they gave me a fee waiver. It can't hurt.

The whole process is a little frustrating, because relative to my school, my GPA is not that bad. I feel like I'm being punished for going to a hard school (our valedictorian had a 3.75, for reference, and most professors don't give out A's and rarely give A-'s). I graduated with honors and cum laude from one of the best schools in the country, so its not like I did terribly.

It almost makes me wish I had gone to a state school, where they seem to hand out A's like candy.

[ze2151]

are those the dulcet tones of a whiny swarthmore grad i hear??? (i live in philly and am used to the swarthmore deflation speech).

in all seriousness, with that LSAT, somebody will want it to boost the #'s. you'll get into a good school.

[JazzOne]

Are all your apps in, OP? If so, just sit back and wait for the offers. You're going to get a reach or two, and then you'll have to choose between that and some scholarships lower down. I got a full ride with similar numbers. I only applied to one school, so I can't really comment in detail, but I predict that you'll have some nice options.

[laika86]

Haha. Not Swarthmore. And I don't mean to whine - I'm being a little facetious. Besides, I really only have myself to blame for the gpa. And to be honest, all of the top 14 schools are good. I don't have to go to a top 5. As long as I get in somewhere, I'll be happy.

I appreciate your confidence by the way.

[ze2151]

of course, and i didn't mean to mock your UG. if anything, i envy that you went to top 5 liberal arts school. it may be a pain in the neck right now, but the name recognition will go a long way as you get into your career.

here's why i'm confident in your scores. let's say 200,000 people have lsat scores and are applying to schools this year (imho, this is a wild overestimation, but let's go with it). people with your score (175) or better amount to 1,000 people. that's IT. now, of those 1,000, what percentage of them are first-time test takers, WITH high gpas, OR are URM's? half? maybe? So of that maybe 1,000 person population, perhaps 500 are what you might call "elite" applications. harvard alone enrolls 550 people a year. somebody will want you enough to throw you some bucks, particularly in that MVPG range.

what shakes your confidence is that you hang around TLS where every single one of those "elite" applicants posts! believe me, i've got a 176 on a re-take, and it kills me every time somebody comes on here saying (s)he got a full ride to my #1 school. TLS =/= reality.

[JazzOne]

what shakes your confidence is that you hang around TLS

+1

[JazzOne]

of course, and i didn't mean to mock your UG. if anything, i envy that you went to top 5 liberal arts school. it may be a pain in the neck right now, but the name recognition will go a long way as you get into your career.

here's why i'm confident in your scores. let's say 200,000 people have lsat scores and are applying to schools this year (imho, this is a wild overestimation, but let's go with it). people with your score (175) or better amount to 1,000 people. that's IT. now, of those 1,000, what percentage of them are first-time test takers, WITH high gpas, OR are URM's? half? maybe? So of that maybe 1,000 person population, perhaps 500 are what you might call "elite" applications. harvard alone enrolls 550 people a year. somebody will want you enough to throw you some bucks, particularly in that MVPG range.

what shakes your confidence is that you hang around TLS where every single one of those "elite" applicants posts! believe me, i've got a 176 on a re-take, and it kills me every time somebody comes on here saying (s)he got a full ride to my #1 school. TLS =/= reality.

Your estimates are interesting, but one thing I think you are failing to consider is that people with 175+ are more likely to apply to top schools than individuals with lower numbers. So you can't just say "175 = top 1% of test takers, therefore 175 = top 1% of Harvard applicants." I know that wasn't exactly your point, but people with 175+ from the past 10 or so administrations will be applying to the top schools. There might be more of those top scorers in the pool than you think.

[laika86]

Thanks! That makes me feel a lot better. However, one thing you don't take into account is the fact that top schools will admit a lot of students that had a high gpa and a very good LSAT score (ie in the 170-174 range). There may not be a lot of people who got 175 and above, but I'm sure there are plenty who got 170 and above and also had a very high GPA (3.7 and above).

[ze2151]

i'm not saying those numbers are hard and fast. i'm saying you're a high achiever, so don't lose too much sleep.

also, 175 isn't top 1%, it's top .5%. of course OP will be competing against other high achievers. i'm just saying, there are enough seats for him/her to score one.