No GPA / good LSAT score? Forum

[nhkjackson]

UPDATED

My LSAT score was 167.

I went to Evergreen, a WA State school with no GPA. The first thing to know about how this works is: in place of GPA are 2 Evaluations, one (1-2 pages) written by myself on my performance, and one (1-2 pages) written by the professor.

The second thing to know is that at Evergreen, msot of the time students take 1 program per quarter in place of a number of classes. For instance, in my first quarter there, I took "The Philosophy and Politics of Education". For this program, I earned 4 credits in each of the following: sociology, political science, philosophy, and education. It's interdisciplinary.

I did fail to earn all credits for a few classes over my undergraduate career, so I'm estimating my GPA (if I had one) to roughly a 3.65. My evaluations, by myself and the professor, and especially for the last two years of school, are stellar. The most recent faculty evaluation in my "GPA" (not GPA but 50+ pages of evals) is beyond stellar, and as a bonus (it was a literary theory program) the eval contains positive reviews of my capacity for: critical thinking, synthesis, dealing with questions without a definite answer, and writing skills, skills I assume are valued in law schools.

My questions are: will schools even read my evals? if they do, they'll start at the most recent eval and just read a couple? how will not having a GPA affect my chances? In addition to not having a GPA, I was placed on academic probation (stupid mistake on my part; I assumed that a program I never attended would be dropped from my schedule. It wasn't, I failed it, and will write an addendum explaining).

My softs: No formal club memberships or awards, but I have been working as a Homeless Youth Outreach Worker for the past year and a half. One of my letters is written by the Director of Outreach Services, my boss's boss. Before that I worked with foster children in WA, providing crisis intervention to foster families. Before that, as a three-quarter internship during college, I worked as an advocate at a Homeless Adult Drop-In Center. I was promoted to Preceptor for my second and third quarters. I was a member of a panel during Evergreen's annual literature and activism conference. I worked in India for four months teaching English (for free) to rural schoolchildren as part of a NGO.

I updated my school list based in part on feedback from this topic)The schools I plan on applying to (will probably cut a few, and these are in no particular order): NYU, Columbia, Berkeley, Fordham, Yeshiva, Brooklyn, San Franancisco University, Hastings, CUNY, Boston College, Boston U., U. Penn, Cornell, Northwestern, and Yale. I don't need an answer about each specific school, just general ideas.

Thanks for the help. I'm finishing up my statement of purpose this week and would be interested in trading with someone (it's the last thing to do before my apps are complete).

Is my school list reasonable (if long)? Well balanced with reach, good chance, and safety schools? Do I have a chance (particularly in regards to the relative lateness of my application)?

[jks289]

I think the general concensus is that no GPA means you are evaluated as if you have rougly the median of whatever school you are applying to, in that you don't hurt or help them. Considering the LSAT is your only number, bumping it up 3+ points might push you into some of the T14. You list is kind of nuts though. Yale and CUNY? I guess applying to a broad range is a good idea, but I'd be curious to know your general thought process in applying...

[nhkjackson]

I picked CUNY and Yale, as well as the other schools, based on their culture and programs. That's why Yale and CUNY are both on the same list: a commitment to the public interest. Not all the schools on my list have that commitment, but they all have one quality or another that I'm looking for (including location).

[kalvano]

Yale is at the bottom of your list?

[GeePee]

My suggestion is to probably do a bit more research on the placement prospects of each school before going through with this list. It will probably change it a bit.

[atlantalaw]

I picked CUNY and Yale, as well as the other schools, based on their culture and programs. That's why Yale and CUNY are both on the same list: a commitment to the public interest. Not all the schools on my list have that commitment, but they all have one quality or another that I'm looking for (including location).

employers don't care about "culture and programs" of your alma mater. they care about how students from there turned out to be as lawyers, which is reflected in the rankings (but not entirely - so research is a good thing). they care about bragging about how many harvard lawyers they have on staff. are you going to law school to have a good time? or are you going to get a job? sounds like the former, which sounds like not a wise decision (since law school no matter where you go probably won't be too fun anyway. no time to experience the "culture" unless that culture happens to be in the library sandwiched in between your casebooks).

[rw2264]

My LSAT score was 167.
I went to Evergreen, a WA State school with no GPA. The first thing to know about how this works is: in place of GPA are 2 Evaluations, one (1-2 pages) written by myself on my performance, and one (1-2 pages) written by the professor.

The second thing to know is that at Evergreen, msot of the time students take 1 program per quarter in place of a number of classes. For instance, in my first quarter there, I took "The Philosophy and Politics of Education". For this program, I earned 4 credits in each of the following: sociology, political science, philosophy, and education. It's interdisciplinary.

I did fail to earn all credits for a few classes over my undergraduate career, so I'm estimating my GPA (if I had one) to roughly a 3.65. My evaluations, by myself and the professor, and especially for the last two years of school, are stellar. The most recent faculty evaluation in my "GPA" (not GPA but 50+ pages of evals) is beyond stellar, and as a bonus (it was a literary theory program) the eval contains positive reviews of my capacity for: critical thinking, synthesis, dealing with questions without a definite answer, and writing skills.

My questions are: will schools even read my evals? if they do, they'll start at the most recent eval and just read a couple? how will not having a GPA affect my chances?

The schools I am applying to: CUNY, NYU, Columbia, Berkeley, Fordham, Stanford,Yeshiva, Brooklyn Law School, San Francisco University, and Yale (ranked in order of preference). I don't need an answer about each specific school, just general ideas.

Thanks for the help. I'm finishing up my statement of purpose this weekend and would be interested in trading with someone.

apply to hastings. i really wouldn't bother applying to columbia, berkeley or NYU with a 167 but i guess i'm just too much of a pragmatist.

why not boston, emory, WUSTL, cornell? these are more realistic out of the top 20.

[rw2264]

I picked CUNY and Yale, as well as the other schools, based on their culture and programs. That's why Yale and CUNY are both on the same list: a commitment to the public interest. Not all the schools on my list have that commitment, but they all have one quality or another that I'm looking for (including location).

employers don't care about "culture and programs" of your alma mater. they care about how students from there turned out to be as lawyers, which is reflected in the rankings (but not entirely - so research is a good thing). they care about bragging about how many harvard lawyers they have on staff. are you going to law school to have a good time? or are you going to get a job? sounds like the former, which sounds like not a wise decision (since law school no matter where you go probably won't be too fun anyway. no time to experience the "culture" unless that culture happens to be in the library sandwiched in between your casebooks).

CUNY isn't about "partying." its basically meant for the PI and nonprofit sector. it has a positive reputation among nonprofits in nyc because people who go there don't care about prestige--they want a fine quality education dirt cheap so they can work in PI and don't have to sell their soul for 10 years to pay down their debt.

[IAFG]

this isn't UG. where you go to school determines where you can work, both in terms of geography and practice area, so choose carefully: not because you like the law school, but rather based on career placement.

also, i would be quite surprised if any adcomm ever bothered to even skim your "transcripts." they have enough to read.

[xcountryjunkie]

Your ability to successfully pursue public interest law will be MUCH more closely correlated to the quality (read: ranking/tier) of the law school that you attend than its commitment to public interest law. If I were you, I'd be looking at top 30 schools. If you get into one that is strong in public interest law that should be just a perk.

[nhkjackson]

{bump} for the edited original post, please respond again!