4.0/144 chances Forum

[Harakiri15]

https://officialguide.lsac.org/Release/ ... px?sid=139

You will need somewhere between a 150-154 for SMU with your GPA, 37 out of 40 were admitted with those numbers.

a 145-149 has slim chances only 2/11 accpeted

Given the fact my gpa could potentially cross over 4.0 because I heard LSAC goes up to 4.33, and I for one attend a school where A+ is a option on the transcript of you get a final grade of 97-100 in a class. And I have many on my transcript.

Thanks though.

I will keep this post going and reply to everyone hopefully all the way till my first day of law school in Fall 2015. I can say with confidece I will be attending in TX, and may even be Texas Tech. I won't be going to Texas Southern can say that now.

God is great!! So believe and fear the almighty.

[pancakes3]

You're going to ruin your life if you apply with a 144.

[Colonel_funkadunk]

im srs

[Wingtip88]

You're going to ruin your life if you apply with a 144.

Relax. Allah has his back.

[A. Nony Mouse]

It doesn't help when you pretty much flat out call OP a troll.

It's an unlikely scenario, and I've seen a lot of trolls. But if they are real I hope that they get help improving their LSAT and think TLS is a good place to do that.

why is there even a "what are my chances" forum? its just a breeding ground for neurotic premature threads. i mean im sure the mods have discussed how unneccesary 95% of the threads in this forum are

It dates back to before the current form of mylsn.com, when it was harder to compile the pertinent info.

[AReasonableMan]

Stop. There's no need to troll trolls.

To be more specific: I'm not saying you have to buy what a troll says or not challenge them. But on the off-chance that it's a poor misguided soul, don't pretend to be helpful when you don't actually mean to help. (There's no evidence of alting, sad to say.)

It doesn't help when you pretty much flat out call OP a troll.

I've met kids who peaked in high school. Great HS gpa. But mediocre SAT/ACT. Became average in college. One was a valedictorian at a Texas 5A school. Was mediocre in college. Could never get a decent score on MCAT. Ended up being a generic office clerk. Then she married my brother who was a filthy rich doctor. So darn, may be she was smart after all

I've met kids who peaked in college. Couldn't make the next big leap. So may be OP is a troll, or may be he's just one of these kids. Or may be he's been sheltered by his parents.

Anyhoo. Based on my PMs with him, he seems real so please if you can't help him, at least don't bully him.

And FWIW, I did tell him to not apply till he gets his LSAT score up. And be honest with himself. Is he capable of getting a higher score? Can he hustle if he needs to hang his own shingle? If not, better think of alternatives.

Agreed. College is more about effort. If you aren't considering post-bachelor degrees during college, the incentive structure is different. Grades don't really reflect job placement in most fields. It's connections and non-academic skills. Splitters are likely to actually try in law school.

[Harakiri15]

I hope one day everyday gathers up here and calls the LSAC every morning asking when are you going to replace the LSAT with something more measurable and comprehensible. They can't do nothing if we peacefully protest. Look at this guy how he made millions just by placing a phone call.

Everyone please read this 5 min article. It will give hope.

http://www.tailopez.com/blog/never-give ... -weintraub

[Wingtip88]

LSAC and law schools are not going to replace or eliminate the LSAT for the convenience of imbeciles that aren't capable of getting a remotely respectable score on the most learnable test ever devised.

Good luck with your dreams.

[Rigo]

I'm actually consistently in awe over how awesome the LSAT is as a standardized test and have a lot of respect for it and the test writers.

[Harakiri15]

LSAC and law schools are not going to replace or eliminate the LSAT for the convenience of imbeciles that aren't capable of getting a remotely respectable score on the most learnable test ever devised.

Good luck with your dreams.

The truth is you're probably right. But I'm not an im not an imbecile.

[Wingtip88]

But I'm not an im not an imbecile.

Good luck in law school.

[hoos89]

I'm not trolling. Whether you believe me or don't dosent matter. I'm stuck in a serious rut. I have already explained before my issue could be im thinking too many things at once while solving the questions and time doesn't seem to be on my side. I am a firm believer one can do well in law school without doing well on the LSAT. In highschool I didint try and failed miserably. In college I barley tried and have a 4.0. Again don't believe me. Summer semesters I usually take 17 hours of coursework at times. Undergrad makes sense to me, this doesn't. I am here to look for help. So just believe in me and I will believe in you. I promise. I hope everyone makes true of his or her dreams.

I am going to take a Dec test anyways and apply anyways. Yes private tutoring I will need it. Good idea.

1. The odds of doing well in law school without trying are awfully slim. If you can't muster the effort necessary to bring your LSAT score up, how much effort are you honestly going to put forth in law school?
2. Why are you in such a rush? The chances of getting your score up to anywhere near decent in a month is absurdly low. You should sit this cycle out and take as much time as you need to max out your score. And better yet, while you're at it you should think long and hard about why you want to go to law school.
3. Related point: how much good do you think a private tutor will do in a month?
4. What exactly are these dreams of which you speak? I can assure you there are not many dreams you will accomplish by attending law school with a 144 or anything close to it (even with your awesome GPA). Unless of course your dreams involve graduating from a for-profit law school with six figures of debt and no job.

Should I just not even take the lsat. I mean I could still get into SMU. I could potentially make it somewhere not too far from the top. I know chances look slim, but still worth trying, or what should I do?

Not sure how you got that from my post. You probably won't get into SMU with a 144, and SMU is not really worth attending anyway (and certainly not at sticker, since there's close to 0 chance of a scholarship with your numbers). I'm saying that before you retake you should first think long and hard about why you want to be a lawyer. Many (maybe most) people who "dream" about being a lawyer don't really have a clear idea of what they want to do or even what lawyers actually do. Honestly, if you just don't get the LSAT, there's a pretty decent chance that you just won't get the law either. Or be able to pass the bar. Perhaps you will realize that law isn't really what you were meant for. If you DO ultimately decide that you want to try for law, then you should take at LEAST a full year to seriously study for the LSAT until you can manage a score that will get you in to a reasonable school at a reasonable price. You're fortunate to have a 4.0, which means you won't have to score quite as high as most people to accomplish that, but you still have a ways to go.

[jw316]

LSAC and law schools are not going to replace or eliminate the LSAT for the convenience of imbeciles that aren't capable of getting a remotely respectable score on the most learnable test ever devised.

Good luck with your dreams.

The truth is you're probably right. But I'm not an im not an imbecile.

At least he's got RC down an at least he's got RC down?

[jw316]

I'm actually consistently in awe over how awesome the LSAT is as a standardized test and have a lot of respect for it and the test writers.

Elaborate por favorrr

[Harakiri15]

I'm not trolling. Whether you believe me or don't dosent matter. I'm stuck in a serious rut. I have already explained before my issue could be im thinking too many things at once while solving the questions and time doesn't seem to be on my side. I am a firm believer one can do well in law school without doing well on the LSAT. In highschool I didint try and failed miserably. In college I barley tried and have a 4.0. Again don't believe me. Summer semesters I usually take 17 hours of coursework at times. Undergrad makes sense to me, this doesn't. I am here to look for help. So just believe in me and I will believe in you. I promise. I hope everyone makes true of his or her dreams.

I am going to take a Dec test anyways and apply anyways. Yes private tutoring I will need it. Good idea.

1. The odds of doing well in law school without trying are awfully slim. If you can't muster the effort necessary to bring your LSAT score up, how much effort are you honestly going to put forth in law school?
2. Why are you in such a rush? The chances of getting your score up to anywhere near decent in a month is absurdly low. You should sit this cycle out and take as much time as you need to max out your score. And better yet, while you're at it you should think long and hard about why you want to go to law school.
3. Related point: how much good do you think a private tutor will do in a month?
4. What exactly are these dreams of which you speak? I can assure you there are not many dreams you will accomplish by attending law school with a 144 or anything close to it (even with your awesome GPA). Unless of course your dreams involve graduating from a for-profit law school with six figures of debt and no job.

Should I just not even take the lsat. I mean I could still get into SMU. I could potentially make it somewhere not too far from the top. I know chances look slim, but still worth trying, or what should I do?

Not sure how you got that from my post. You probably won't get into SMU with a 144, and SMU is not really worth attending anyway (and certainly not at sticker, since there's close to 0 chance of a scholarship with your numbers). I'm saying that before you retake you should first think long and hard about why you want to be a lawyer. Many (maybe most) people who "dream" about being a lawyer don't really have a clear idea of what they want to do or even what lawyers actually do. Honestly, if you just don't get the LSAT, there's a pretty decent chance that you just won't get the law either. Or be able to pass the bar. Perhaps you will realize that law isn't really what you were meant for. If you DO ultimately decide that you want to try for law, then you should take at LEAST a full year to seriously study for the LSAT until you can manage a score that will get you in to a reasonable school at a reasonable price. You're fortunate to have a 4.0, which means you won't have to score quite as high as most people to accomplish that, but you still have a ways to go.

Why won't I get the law? It's applying basic principles and having will to argue your way through and a few basic paper work like filing motions. Even dummies can do most of that work. If you want to plea bargain just read the police report. Those guys are not lawyers find flaws and litigate. What's hard is getting in

[hoos89]

Well for one, bar exam passage rates are correlated with LSAT score. People with scores as low as yours are not likely to pass the bar. Also, I'm really not sure you have a firm understanding of what lawyers do.

[Harakiri15]

Well for one, bar exam passage rates are correlated with LSAT score. People with scores as low as yours are not likely to pass the bar. Also, I'm really not sure you have a firm understanding of what lawyers do.

Correct. What do they do? I would like some advice from you honestly? You can list it briefly if you want. I know people with 150s passing bars first time

[Wingtip88]

LSAC and law schools are not going to replace or eliminate the LSAT for the convenience of imbeciles that aren't capable of getting a remotely respectable score on the most learnable test ever devised.

Good luck with your dreams.

The truth is you're probably right. But I'm not an im not an imbecile.

At least he's got RC down an at least he's got RC down?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKrPUVngxuQ

[hoos89]

Well for one, bar exam passage rates are correlated with LSAT score. People with scores as low as yours are not likely to pass the bar. Also, I'm really not sure you have a firm understanding of what lawyers do.

Correct. What do they do? I would like some advice from you honestly? You can list it briefly if you want. I know people with 150s passing bars first time

People do pass it in the 150s. But a non-trivial chunk of them do not. 144 is much worse than 150s. 144 is in the bottom 23% of test takers, while 150s range from the 45th to the 78th percentile.

Not all lawyers do the same stuff. Far from it. The answer to your question depends largely on what you want to practice.

[Wingtip88]

What do they do?

One things lawyers do in almost every practice area is negotiate deals, and generally speaking, doing so is much easier when you aren't demonstrably less intelligent than the other guy is likely to be.

Folks, OP wants to justify what will likely be the horrendous decision to attend an awful law school at an equally awful price.

I'm done here. Hopefully when he hangs his shingle he gets malpractice insurance. His clients will need it.

[nlee10]

Hello I want to go to SMU law school with the above statistics. I am an Asian male?

What are my chances? I want to enroll in full time as well not part time.

OP, I am someone who started off with a really low diagnosttic score of 136. I have already improved by 20 points. Lmk if you need some tips.

[mvp99]

I found a LS that might give you a full ride http://interamerican.lawschoolnumbers.com

[Rigo]

I'm actually consistently in awe over how awesome the LSAT is as a standardized test and have a lot of respect for it and the test writers.

Elaborate por favorrr

I just think it's well-written and it gives each taker a fair shake. Other tests rely so much on things learned throughout life (vocab words & math, etc.), whereas those who didn't go to good schools start out on a lower playing field in many respects.
The fact that the LSAT is so learnable and rewards hard work appeals to me. I think it tests a taker's dedication and work ethic more than anything else.

[mvp99]

I'm actually consistently in awe over how awesome the LSAT is as a standardized test and have a lot of respect for it and the test writers.

Elaborate por favorrr

I just think it's well-written and it gives each taker a fair shake. Other tests rely so much on things learned throughout life (vocab words & math, etc.), whereas those who didn't go to good schools start out on a lower playing field in many respects.
The fact that the LSAT is so learnable and rewards hard work appeals to me. I think it tests a taker's dedication and work ethic more than anything else.

Dan Bernstine, is that you?

[AReasonableMan]

I'm actually consistently in awe over how awesome the LSAT is as a standardized test and have a lot of respect for it and the test writers.

Elaborate por favorrr

I just think it's well-written and it gives each taker a fair shake. Other tests rely so much on things learned throughout life (vocab words & math, etc.), whereas those who didn't go to good schools start out on a lower playing field in many respects.
The fact that the LSAT is so learnable and rewards hard work appeals to me. I think it tests a taker's dedication and work ethic more than anything else.

It favors understanding a variety of things, but not taking any opinions at face value. Your dinner table or culture might prepare you to be better at that. Many people start with high scores, and it's as hard to improve on as other tests are. But you're right in that you don't see the same consistency among a graduating class that you see on other tests.