john marshall chicago spring 2013 program Forum

[bigvinny]

i am retaking, but am still considering the school as a possibility.

I think that is a good choice. However, I do know people that went to this school and came out with successful careers and a wealth of knowledge. It seems that many people on TLS feed off of each other with the elitist advice.

It is not elitist advice to tell someone to avoid massive debt for a 41% chance at a full-time, real legal job, you dumbass. Less than HALF of the students at this school got true lawyering jobs. And I'd bet you my left nut that most of these jobs are simply terrible jobs. JMLS is probably a fine school with nice professors and a nice building, but it has objectively terrible job prospects, and that's the bottom line.

Also, if you want to play the anecdote game, I also know of one guy who went to JMLS who got great grades (like top of the class kind of grades). The dude is a buddy of mine and is a really great guy. I figured with his grades as good as they were and his great personality, he'd be able to find something good for his 2L job. Nope. As far as I know, he was doing like insurance defense work at a smaller firm this summer, and I don't know what his offer situation is. I'm sure he'll get something and wind up employed, and thankfully he had a great scholarship so his debt will be somewhat manageable, but it was hard for me to see him struggle to find a good summer job. He should have done better.

But that's neither here nor there, as I'm not big on anecdotal stories when there is good data to be had. All you need to know is:

There's no reason to be nasty. We have a difference in opinion. The decision is up to the op. I also happen to know attorneys that graduated from this school and have great jobs. It is a nice campus with good faculty members. It is widely considered to be an up-and-coming school. Is it Harvard? No it's not, but that doesn't mean we should discourage people from going there.

Members of this forum are so quick to judge.

And don't forget, Romo, you're using anecdotal evidence too. You know one guy that failed to get a job coming out of the school. I know 4 people that graduated from the school with jobs.

Just my 2 cents....

[North]

There's no reason to be nasty. We have a difference in opinion. The decision is up to the op. I also happen to know attorneys that graduated from this school and have great jobs. It is a nice campus with good faculty members. It is widely considered to be an up-and-coming school. Is it Harvard? No it's not, but that doesn't mean we should discourage people from going there.

Members of this forum are so quick to judge.

And don't forget, Romo, you're using anecdotal evidence too. You know one guy that failed to get a job coming out of the school. I know 4 people that graduated from the school with jobs.

Just my 2 cents...

What a joke dude, get out of here with your life-ruining advice.

[rayiner]

Unlikely with 150/3.29. John Marshall is unselective, but its not that unselective. They're 25th %-ile LSAT is a 152, which means below that your GPA should be above their 75th GPA (3.6).

[romothesavior]

And don't forget, Romo, you're using anecdotal evidence too. You know one guy that failed to get a job coming out of the school. I know 4 people that graduated from the school with jobs.

But that's neither here nor there, as I'm not big on anecdotal stories when there is good data to be had. All you need to know is:

41.1% were employed in full-time, bar-required jobs in a non-solo capacity

You should give that whole "reading" thing a try.

[mavshoosiers4life]

i've also heard the school is up and coming. i know that doesn't mean anything now, but that could mean good things in 3 years.

[vpintz]

i've also heard the school is up and coming. i know that doesn't mean anything now, but that could mean good things in 3 years.

LOL

[bigvinny]

i've also heard the school is up and coming. i know that doesn't mean anything now, but that could mean good things in 3 years.

This

[Nova]

i've also heard the school is up and coming. i know that doesn't mean anything now, but that could mean good things in 3 years.

This

Says who?

[romothesavior]

i've also heard the school is up and coming. i know that doesn't mean anything now, but that could mean good things in 3 years.

This

Vinny, I'm still waiting on a response to the facts I posted above. 41% in real legal employment. What say you?

Also, every school on the planet claims to be "up and coming." What a goddamn naive, ridiculous thing to say. JMLS has been a TTTT for decades, and isn't going to magically be a better school in 3 years. It is the worst school in possibly the most cutthroat, oversaturated market in the country. If anything, it is going to get worse. Given the horrible job prospects and the insane costs of attendance, JMLS is one of the very worst law school investments that one could make.

[top30man]

i've also heard the school is up and coming. i know that doesn't mean anything now, but that could mean good things in 3 years.

This

Says who?

Their PR department.

[mavshoosiers4life]

went up 11 spots in the latest rankings. yeah i know, it's still 129, but at least it is going in the right direction. all vinny and i said was it was improving. we didn't say it's a GREAT school.

[Nova]

went up 11 spots in the latest rankings.

That is irrelevant.

American is in the 1st tier and is still a terrible inverment for most of the class.

If you are going to attend a TTT, attend a better one. And by that I mean one that places well in its market and does not cost a fortune.

[romothesavior]

went up 11 spots in the latest rankings.

That is irrelevant.

American is in the 1st tier and is still a terrible inverment for most of the class.

If you are going to attend a TTT, attend a better one. And by that I mean one that places well in its market and does not cost a fortune.

+1, the rankings are meaningless at that point. Take it from someone who has been involved in this law school game for three years- no school improves enough in a few years to make a difference to current or prospective students. Mavs, people have been using the "School XYZ is on the rise" line for years, and guess what? It made no difference. You could rank JMLS as a T1 tomorrow and it would have no impact whatsoever on employment for students considering attending.

You literally have a better chance of putting it all on red in roulette than you do of getting a JD required from JMLS.

[BigBucks]

A few weeks (really months) ago I began contemplating law school (about to be a senior - dble major finance/econ) and since then, just like when I was convinced finance was the way to go (the recent layoff news regarding investment banking has been grim) I have been doing crazy research and happened on this forum. I have learned more about my prospects regarding law school in the past few days than in my prior 21 years on this earth combined, and my father is a lawyer. With that said, these TTTT what are my chances threads are pure gold. I don't understand how one solicits advice and gets a resounding consensus yet still supports the alternative. The TSU thread was pure hilarity, this one is coming close. My favorite is when 1 alum comes in defense of said terrible school and OP uses it as evidence that the other 99% of posters must be wrong; the statistics must be somehow biased. OP, I am a lowly undergrad but it is obvious you shouldn't go to this school, if you do, you deserve that terrible LSAT score because it really is a true indication of your intelligence level. People are not brutal enough on this site, if you come on the wallstreet forums I use with such ridiculous propositions, you'd be ripped a new a hole.



p.s. I made an account just to post this

[tigershark]

i am retaking, but am still considering the school as a possibility.

I think that is a good choice. However, I do know people that went to this school and came out with successful careers and a wealth of knowledge. It seems that many people on TLS feed off of each other with the elitist advice.

I know people who went to this school and came out with successful careers....they all also graduated pre-1990.

[rad lulz]

went up 11 spots in the latest rankings. yeah i know, it's still 129, but at least it is going in the right direction. all vinny and i said was it was improving. we didn't say it's a GREAT school.

I predict employers will flock to OCI in DROVES due to this coup.

[2014]

went up 11 spots in the latest rankings. yeah i know, it's still 129, but at least it is going in the right direction. all vinny and i said was it was improving. we didn't say it's a GREAT school.

I predict employers will flock to OCI in DROVES due to this coup.

Nope all the interviewers will be too busy waiting in line to interview ASU 2Ls

[bigvinny]

i've also heard the school is up and coming. i know that doesn't mean anything now, but that could mean good things in 3 years.

This

Vinny, I'm still waiting on a response to the facts I posted above. 41% in real legal employment. What say you?

Also, every school on the planet claims to be "up and coming." What a goddamn naive, ridiculous thing to say. JMLS has been a TTTT for decades, and isn't going to magically be a better school in 3 years. It is the worst school in possibly the most cutthroat, oversaturated market in the country. If anything, it is going to get worse. Given the horrible job prospects and the insane costs of attendance, JMLS is one of the very worst law school investments that one could make.

I can't speak for the statistics, but I know people from my firm that went to JMLS and they had no trouble getting jobs. They graduated a few years after me and were placed easily. I guess these guys just happened to luck out?

[romothesavior]

Yep, that's what we're getting at. Not trying to be an asshole, but the fact that you know a small handful of a class of 300+ does not make you qualified to speak to JMLS job outcomes. The data is what it is, and it points to JMLS being an objectively bad investment. Sure, your colleagues are probably doing well, but they are exceptions. Also, it sounds like youve been in practice a while; the world has changed drastically for current students. As a result, it would be irresponsible to tell someone "I know a few JMLS grads, they're fine, you'll be fine too." The school is incredibly expensive with very poor prospects. That's just an objective fact.

[mavshoosiers4life]

i was admitted, so my question was answered.

[goldeneye]

i was admitted, so my question was answered.

that is saying a lot about the quality of school to admit you with those numbers. please. don't go there. you most likely won't work as an attorney.

[Nova]

i was admitted, so my question was answered.

Retake

[09042014]

I wouldn't sentence a rapist to 3 years at John Marshall.

[mavshoosiers4life]

was only updating the status, wasn't asking whether or not to retake.

[twenty]

According to our reliable friend the Wikipedia, JMLS(C) had 1,900 students, roughly 350 of which were part time. If we assume that all the students are getting 42k scholarships for attending (extremely generous, but let's figure part time tuition is less), that comes out to $45,600,000. Even if we assume that all the faculty are making 120k a year, times 103 is 12,360,000, not including overhead costs and a lawsuit slushfund for the inevitable "this school sux" suit, that comes out to 33,240,000 PER YEAR.

Dear god, if I had the money, I would open up law schools all over the freaking country.

also, grats on getting into JMLS OP. <3