3.85 gpa for MBA, 3.65 gpa B.S in Business, 163 LSAT Forum

[CanadianWolf]

Name calling ? That's your best argument ? There's no need to insult others.

[Patriot1208]

OP, if you are still there, Canadian wolf seems to be intent on spouting off dribble and bad information. Sure, you have a chance, but a VERY small one. The correct answer, if you are intent on going to a top school, is to retake the LSAT. I sincerely hope that helps.

[CanadianWolf]

So you agree that the OP has a chance. Apparently my arguments are convincing. And I didn't even resort to name-calling & insults.

[whymeohgodno]

Name calling ? That's your best argument ? There's no need to insult others.

You really are dumb aren't you. LSN isn't random sampling. You lost all credibility when you dropped out of stats 101.

[CanadianWolf]

Back to the insults & name-calling again ? If you prefer a synonym for "random", then try arbitrary, chance, casual, incidental, haphazard, irregular, unsystematic, unplanned, accidental, aimless, purposeless, or indiscriminate.

[d34d9823]

Back to the insults & name-calling again ?

Pretty much, dude. You're a complete moron. That's the only thing we can say that has any meaning at this point.

[vanwinkle]

Are you stupid? LSN isn't random sampling which is it's main fault. Never talk again.

You really are dumb aren't you.

Please take any complaints about mod action to the Mod Q&A thread in the Lounge, and allow this thread to get back on-topic. Thank you.

[vanwinkle]

Exactly how I view your arguments. Interesting that many young adults like absolutes & simplicity in a process which is neither, yet, after law school, often tend to overcomplicate matters (feel compelled to write everything they know about a legal topic in their filings) during their first several years of practicing law.

Dude, spouting platitudes and unsourced anecdotes is really not that convincing.

This is true (and a much better way of responding to someone who is wrong).

I agree with the folks saying odds of admission at T20 schools with OP's stats are extremely low. I also agree with the proposition that he should apply to a few anyway if he really wants to attend one, but he should do so being aware that admissions is more numbers-based than other school systems and the odds are stacked against him.

[Patriot1208]

So you agree that the OP has a chance. Apparently my arguments are convincing. And I didn't even resort to name-calling & insults.

LOL really? I repeated what I said on the first page and you declared victory? There aren't enough facepalms in the world for you in this thread.

[CanadianWolf]

OP: Apply & let us know the results. Your numbers should get your application a serious read. Your GPA is above the 25th% for all three schools according to the 2011 USNews & your LSAT is above the 25th% for 2 of the three based on the same source. Your MBA will help. Working your way through college over 6 years should help. Good luck !

[Aqualibrium]

LSN is not comprehensive as it represents only a very small percentage of applicants.

I hate when people make this argument, sure, it's not comprehensive, but it's pretty damn accurate. Sure, OP has a chance at those schools, but that chance is SLIM.

You may "hate" it, but you can't deny the small size of the sample pool. For example, Fordham had 8,843 applications last year. On LSN, Fordham had 536 data points. you're telling me this is "pretty damn accurate?"

I'd say it's pretty damn self selecting, and an average metric at best.

There are nearly 300 million people in the US yet polls that supposedly gauge how the American people as a whole feel about certain topics are generally compiled by using samples of anywhere from 1,000 to 10,000 people...

Just like that example, LSN may be a small sample size, but that doesn't mean it can't also be a good indicator.

[CanadianWolf]

Agree, but those samples are derived from experts in statistics & sampling. LSN is useful, but participation is haphazard, not scientifically sampled.
LSN & lawschoolpredictor are fun & informative, but not determinative.

[BrownBears09]

LSN is not a random sample. LSN is affected by a self selecting bias.

Those are facts, irrespective of whether or not you want to believe them.

[DrackedaryMaster]

Exactly how I view your arguments. Interesting that many young adults like absolutes & simplicity in a process which is neither, yet, after law school, often tend to overcomplicate matters (feel compelled to write everything they know about a legal topic in their filings) during their first several years of practicing law.

Dude, spouting platitudes and unsourced anecdotes is really not that convincing.

This is true (and a much better way of responding to someone who is wrong).

I agree with the folks saying odds of admission at T20 schools with OP's stats are extremely low. I also agree with the proposition that he should apply to a few anyway if he really wants to attend one, but he should do so being aware that admissions is more numbers-based than other school systems and the odds are stacked against him.

True, I guess that is why they call them "reaches". I have similar numbers compared to the OP (same LSAT, higher GPA) and already got into the lower Tier 1's I was looking at. But deciding what "reaches" to go after has been truly frustrating. Most of the schools I've applied to have appeared to be absolutely in, and I've avoided applying to those that would most likely be definitely out. And those that do fall in the 50/50 range aren't really a step up ranking-wise, just more of a regional difference (UGA, Bama, etc). LSN & LSP print a grim picture for the OP in their T-20 prospects. Hell, even those numbers in the top-30 look grim. I thought Emory & WM would be decent reaches to apply to, but that was before I saw the obvious LSAT floors at LSN. And I can't figure out BU or BC at all as the data seems to be all over the place. I think maybe I'm suffering end-of-cycle denial syndrome in that I got my schools I wanted, but I still want to try to aim higher. Yet, at the same time it seems like a waste of application fee money.

As for the OP's chances, w/l at best.

[CanadianWolf]

BrownBears: I agree. I should not have written "random sample" earlier when I did not intend to use it as a statistics term, but in the layman's sense. I think, however, that we agree that LSN is a haphazard compilation.

[d34d9823]

LSN is not a random sample. LSN is affected by a self selecting bias.

Those are facts, irrespective of whether or not you want to believe them.

I'd be interested if you could propose a believable basis for that bias.

Also, as was pointed out earlier, in the absence of softs, numbers are all that matters. Given that, unless LSN is biased against having softs, it doesn't matter if it's a representative sample or not.

[FuManChusco]

Can we all stop feeding the troll that is canadianwolf? Refer to VW's post for TCR. OP should retake for a 167 if he wants t20 that badly though. LSAT is just too important.

[CanadianWolf]

Opinions. If you believe that there is a "correct answer" you do not understand law school admissions. The only "correct answers" will be decisions of the particular law schools.

[FuManChusco]

Opinions. If you believe that there is a "correct answer" you do not understand law school admissions. The only "correct answers" will be decisions of the particular law schools.

I'm not going to feed you troll. Now run along back to your bridge.

[annab]

Wow, I had no idea that I would start such a fuss. Here are the facts.

My undergrad degree is a B.S. in Business with a 3.65 GPA - During this time I worked full time as a caregiver for developmentally disabled individuals.

I then earned my MBA and maintained a 3.85 GPA while working full-time at a non-profit.

I am still currently working at this non-profit and I earned a 163 on my LSAT.

I used the Law School predictor and found that I really don't have a great chance at getting into a top twenty school with just my grades and LSAT score, but hopefully my personal statement and life/work experience will help me.

[Patriot1208]

I used the Law School predictor and found that I really don't have a great chance at getting into a top twenty school with just my grades and LSAT score, but hopefully my personal statement and life/work experience will help me.

OP, unfortunately, your work/life probably isn't abnormal/impressive enough to really give you the bump you'll need. I'd consier studying harder and smarter and retaking the LSAT.

[annab]

Thanks everyone for your advice and discussion!!!

[d34d9823]

Wow, I had no idea that I would start such a fuss. Here are the facts.

My undergrad degree is a B.S. in Business with a 3.65 GPA - During this time I worked full time as a caregiver for developmentally disabled individuals.

I then earned my MBA and maintained a 3.85 GPA while working full-time at a non-profit.

I am still currently working at this non-profit and I earned a 163 on my LSAT.

I used the Law School predictor and found that I really don't have a great chance at getting into a top twenty school with just my grades and LSAT score, but hopefully my personal statement and life/work experience will help me.

OP, I feel bad we derailed your thread.

Unfortunately, law schools don't put much weight on anything besides undergrad GPA and LSAT unless it's an exceptional achievement (e.g. wrote a bestseller, competed in the Olympics). That work experience will probably help a bit as it shows maturity (Northwestern in particular values WE). If you've only taken once, I would definitely study hard and retake, as it is very possible to gain 10+ points with hard work.