Clearly wrote:I think you're giving random joined this week posters too much credit. The fact that these schools are still full of people paying sticker is plenty of evidence for the belief that someone who just joined TLS and asked about schools scattered about the country might not know that going to these schools with those numbers is a recipe for a bad life. I strongly disagree with your assertion that everyone here already knows that non-t-14 full freight law school is a poor decision, especially those who just joined the site. If he did, he'd be asking different questions, like is a december retake too late.CPAlawHopefu wrote:My bad. I reread the thread and I see that you are the only one that actually cared to answer his question.trebekismyhero wrote:I did answer him, you just didn't pay attention. And it is not just about the scholarship, it is about going to school in a region you plan on practicing. Outside of the t14, it is not like undergrad where you can go anywhere. OP and others should know that and also be told that taking on a lot of debt when the most likely outcome is a $60k salary is not a good idea especially when a couple points can save someone literally tens of thousands of dollars. It is not about getting a 170+, it is about maximizing your scholarship opportunities at schools you are applying.
No, OP wasn't given "plenty of answers" other than the one by trebekismyhero that I missed earlier. Most of all he got was why he shouldn't attend those schools at sticker instead of getting his questions answered.cavalier1138 wrote:That's right, the OP didn't ask that. Which is why I noted that both of you were ignoring a major point.CPAlawHopefu wrote: OP didn't ask whether he'll get scholly from the listed schools, nor did he ask anything about his chance of landing his dream job from these schools. It's been a week since he made this thread and not a single person here answered the actual question asked and I see something grossly wrong with the pattern here. Anyone with 170+ LSAT, people are willing to answer questions. But dare you ask a question with anything less and you get spammed with "retake!!!! THIS DOESN'T EVEN WARRANT AN ANSWER!!". Why the discrimination? Check the forum title, it says "What are my chances", not "Should I go to these schools for my dream job". Your concern is more befitting to the other forum "Choosing a Law School", which isn't this one. TLSers should seriously drop this BS behavior.
The OP was given plenty of answers that evaluated their chances at admission. Adding information to tell them that going to any of the chosen schools at sticker price is financial suicide is not a bad thing.
I get that someone's clearly made you feel bad in the past for not scoring high enough, but since everyone talking about money is literally only looking out for the OP's financial future, it's more than a little childish to lash out at all the mean ol' TLS posters. Why do you think people are universally giving the same advice? Do you think they're trying to thin out the competition at GW?
"what are my chances of getting in to xyz schools"
"you shouldn't go there at sticker"
"ok but what are my chances?"
"you are making a bad decision by going there at sticker"
"i understand but I still want to know my chances"
"you aren't listening. you should retake."
*facepalm*
Again, going back to what I've said earlier, OP wasn't asking for anyone's advice on what schools to attend. It's frustrating when someone creates a thread to ask a simple question only to be bombarded with completely irrelevant points (good intent or not, most people here weren't answering any of his questions). Everyone here already understands that going to a non-T14 school at sticker is almost always a poor decision, but no one here wants their thread spammed with the same crap that they have to scroll down through on every other thread here. Leave opinion to yourself unless asked of it, he never asked for it.
When I joined this site I had a 164 and a 2.89 and was asking about my chances to fordham and cardozo, I had no idea that the job market is what it is, and these schools are what they are. People informed me about things that are counter-intuitive to people who are caught up in the belief that lawyers make money, like how beating 9/10 people on the LSAT with a 164 was...bad? Thank god they didn't wait around for me to ask these questions because I wouldn't have, I would have gone with my gut and gone to Fordham. I pushed back, but after being informed of such information that no one would ever think to ask (like the bi-modal salary distribution i posted), I made many more threads about improving my outcome, I retook, got my GPA up, followed TLS for admissions advice, ended up at a great school, followed TLS for law school advice, got good grades and a great job. People rubbed me the wrong way when I got here but this website saved my life with the same advice this guy is getting dude, because they know what they are talking about.
You're mad that we're clogging up a thread with valid information that people should have when making a six figure decision, but I think you're looking at this all wrong. I'd be infuriated if this thread was just people answering the exact question posed without providing this information, that'd be a tacit endorsement of these schools at or near sticker, and when you consider that there is someone on the other end of this thread who prob doesn't understand how bad that is, you're literally contributing to seriously fucking up someone's life. I think people can be rude about it sometimes, and I think that hurts the cause, which is why I try to be friendly when providing this information, but even if people are rude, you can't be ignorant, look at that salary distrubtion, get pointed to law school transparency and fail to follow up and do your own research even if people are dicks, and in that sense, they're still contributing to helping people.
TL;DR: I'll rustle feathers and risk clogging the forum and even offending the occasional poster like you, if it saves one uninformed person from a life of poverty because they didn't know how bad it was, or that retaking could have helped. Sorry.
Uh..... no. By only answering the questions asked, you'd just be... answering the questions asked. How does that show a "tacit endorsement"? I don't understand your reasoning.
look at my previous post.
I didn't provide any advice. I simply answered what the OP wanted to know. Does my post suggest that I in any shape or form endorse attending any of these schools at sticker?CPAlawHopefu wrote:
Boston University - Slight Reach
Boston College - Target
Notre Dame - Slight Reach
William & Mary - Target
George Washington - Reach
Emory - Reach
University of Illinois - Urbana Champaign - Safety
University of North Carolina - Chapel Hill - Safety
You should also look at schools like Fordham and WUSTL and apply to some strong strong flagships like Indiana, Iowa and Minnesota. These are all within your range.
And my beef isn't with the people who are willing to add in a piece of advice. The people who I have issue with are the ones that spew out some pseudo-helpful tip without showing any effort to answer the actual questions asked, like this:
^^first post after OP, does not answer OP's questionClearly wrote:Please buckle down and retake the LSAT.
Clearly wrote:No, I think it's a bad idea to go to any of these without the type of scholarship that score won't get you anyway. At sticker you're gonna pay several thousand a month in payments for a decade or more, and none of these schools place well into jobs that can meet that payment.
Good news though, you just have to get a lot better at a multiple choice test and you can go to one of these for free or a better school if you want!
^^ attempt to be helpful but again does not again answer OP's question for the second time.
Clearly wrote:Are you independently wealthy? That work is largely done by firms that either don't hire from these schools, or hire no more than 30% of the students from these schools. Those are awful odds. If you don't get that job, your next best option prob pays around 50k. You are either going to rely on government programs to pay that back, or you're independently wealthy.
OR you can ace a multiple choice test, and go to a school that all but guarantees a big firm job, or take your chances at one of these schools for less money! It's a multiple choice test man! Trust me, things aren't as rosy as you apparently think, but all hope is not lost. I had a 164 - 2.9 gpa, and I studied my ass off to get to 164. Then I sat out a year, kept working, slayed the lsat, went to a t10, got my 180k. It may have been the best decision I've ever made, statistically the modal outcome from any of those schools is 35-50k a year income. Some chunk will be higher, but thats what you're looking at. There is no in between. You either make 50k or 180k. For you, the difference is a few questions on a multiple choice test. Don't be stupid.
^^ OP asks the question for the third time but completely ignores the questions asked yet again and instead give advice that was never asked.
I understand you are trying to be helpful, but usually the best way to be helpful is by answering the questions asked. Try that next time.
