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[WokeUpInACar]

Penn is basically no shot, even ED.

This is not true. I know at least two people who got in with roughly these numbers this cycle.

[jbagelboy]

Penn is basically no shot, even ED.

This is not true. I know at least two people who got in with roughly these numbers this cycle.

"roughly" 3.25 = ~3.4 and exactly 3.25 are different. Also, 171 =/= 170 here since at median and above median will be regarded differently. A lot of people on TLS have similar stats, but small differences can be significant at these extremes. Maybe I stand corrected on an anecdotal basis if you knew someone who really had that low a GPA and exact LSAT, in which case I should rephrase to "Penn has a small chance of success, even ED, but has been done." I apologize.

[WokeUpInACar]

Penn is basically no shot, even ED.

This is not true. I know at least two people who got in with roughly these numbers this cycle.

"roughly" 3.25 = ~3.4 and exactly 3.25 are different. Also, 171 =/= 170 here since at median and above median will be regarded differently. A lot of people on TLS have similar stats, but small differences can be significant at these extremes. Maybe I stand corrected on an anecdotal basis if you knew someone who really had that low a GPA and exact LSAT, in which case I should rephrase to "Penn has a small chance of success, even ED, but has been done." I apologize.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Griffneedslaw

There was someone else on TLS with a 170 and <3.3 too

[jbagelboy]

Penn is basically no shot, even ED.

This is not true. I know at least two people who got in with roughly these numbers this cycle.

"roughly" 3.25 = ~3.4 and exactly 3.25 are different. Also, 171 =/= 170 here since at median and above median will be regarded differently. A lot of people on TLS have similar stats, but small differences can be significant at these extremes. Maybe I stand corrected on an anecdotal basis if you knew someone who really had that low a GPA and exact LSAT, in which case I should rephrase to "Penn has a small chance of success, even ED, but has been done." I apologize.

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Griffneedslaw

There was someone else on TLS with a 170 and <3.3 too

you might be referring to this guy:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/westphiladelphia
He/she had an insane cycle given those numbers. Must be something going on there we can't see.

Him/her and Griffneedslaw are the only two non-URM <171 <3.3 applicants to be admitted to Penn this cycle. The other admitted applicants below 3.3 are all 172+. If you sort on LSN by GPA for Penn, there were 32 applicants rejected or WL'd in the 3.0 < x < 3.3 range to match these 2 admitted (including yourself, although I do hope you get off the WL!). So its somewhat disingenuous to say there is much of a chance (5-6%); perhaps my statement of "basically no chance" was also a slight exaggeration, but only ever so slight. Hopefully we will see more WL action this summer.

[sinfiery]

there may not be a lot of data but ED UPenn/UVA are about the same chance for these numbers...
http://www.mylsn.info/o601rr


That said, I think DF is right in that maybe you shouldn't ED and hope for money given the nature of law school applications at the moment. But not EDing makes MVP.very unlikely...very unlikely.

That could.backfire though. 3.1/174 and best option is GULC with 200k this cycle so far


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=209739

Also, UVA is significantly cheaper than NU or Penn at sticker if you assume in state for years 2/3.

OP, how are your softs? WE, UG preftige, major?

[09042014]

there may not be a lot of data but ED UPenn/UVA are about the same chance for these numbers...
http://www.mylsn.info/o601rr


That said, I think DF is right in that maybe you shouldn't ED and hope for money given the nature of law school applications at the moment. But not EDing makes MVP.very unlikely...very unlikely.

That could.backfire though. 3.1/174 and best option is GULC with 200k this cycle so far


http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=209739

Also, UVA is significantly cheaper than NU or Penn at sticker if you assume in state for years 2/3.

OP, how are your softs? WE, UG preftige, major?

GULC with money isn't a bad deal compared to sticker at UVA.

[cahwc12]

Why do people on this forum advocate ED to UVA under any circumstances? This is probably the best possible argument for ED UVA (with OP's numbers), but you're consigning him to $300k of debt for what is still unarguably a lot of risk. NU's ED comes with a full ride, better job placement, and a healthier market.

What advantages does UVA's ED actually confer? Given OP's WE in Chicago, ED NU sounds like a great choice and he has a good shot there. UVA doesn't really get him anything. Sure, he could get in, but he could probably get in RD as well, and would you advocate UVA RD at sticker as a contender? Probably not...

ED UVA is a hangover from the conventional wisdom of several years ago operating on the premises that;
1) sticker was manageable and acceptable @ T10
2) best chances (quantitatively) for splitters at the best ranked school (RD used to be more competitive at the height of apps)
3) you go to the best school you get in to

bingo, except that ED UVA was never a good idea, but it used to be touted as a good idea because until 2011 no one had any real data and everyone was playing high stakes guess-the-card-on-my-forehead while wearing blindfolds. I can't point the finger too harshly though, because up until a few years ago I was one of those people, too. In 2007 I remember being so excited at the chance to pay sticker for Cornell because 98% of graduates were employed with a median private sector salary of $160,000.

The reality is that ED anywhere except NU is very likely a horrible idea, and for those of us with GPAs under most school medians, going to law school at all is likely a bad idea because those hefty scholarships don't sail our way.

And anyone truly thinking about recommending splitters to ED UVA should talk to graduating 3L's who paid sticker there. I know a few active posters who are and none would advocate what I see posted in nearly every splitter thread--and the worst part is that only some of them aren't being serious.

[sinfiery]

There are plenty of threads debating the merit of attending a t13 with a 255k COA and it usually comes down to opportunity cost. It is not an inherently bad investment.

Also, ED UVA for a splitter is probably the cheapest option at 255k coa that you'll get in the t13 and no school outside of TTs will make your debt manageable anyways.


It's not terrible advice. Though NU or UPenn could be worth the cost if you want NYC/Phili/Chicago

[bievmic]

My softs are ok. I went to U of I in Champaign which is a good school and I majored in Political Science. I have an upward grade trend after a rough freshman year. I was in charge of a large student volunteer organization in college. I am an Eagle Scout and my WE was an internship at a midsized firm in Chicago.

[jbagelboy]

My softs are ok. I went to U of I in Champaign which is a good school and I majored in Political Science. I have an upward grade trend after a rough freshman year. I was in charge of a large student volunteer organization in college. I am an Eagle Scout and my WE was an internship at a midsized firm in Chicago.

write an addendum for your grades with your applications

internship isn't really WE unless its full time post-grad and paid, then its basically a job

other stuff isn't relevant

[sinfiery]

Think you may have to go the ED route as I doubt those softs will do much for you.

Are you willing to pay sticker at a t14?

[bievmic]

I'm not going to pay sticker price at any t14. Thanks for all of the advice guys.