162/3.7 Texas Schools Forum

[b.gump81]

To be honest I'm not considering either school. Both are safety schools that I plan on using as scholarship leverage.

It's basically going to come down to UH, Baylor and SMU.

Thoughts on Baylor at 30k a year compared to UH with possibly no scholarship or around 5-10k?

I'd say uh or smu over Baylor, but it depends how debt adverse you are. I dont know about smu, but uh just had a dismal oci; plus I've seen rumors they're going to increase tuition again soon. You will be hard pressed to find someone on here saying something positive about Baylor. I've heard quality of life there is pretty low due to the rigorous practice court and quarter system, but coming out with minimal debt isn't something to easily pass up. But even then, tech travels just as well as Baylor and would be almost free for you, especially if you negotiate (btw, you will get more money using higher ranked schools to leverage tech than using tech to try and leverage a higher ranked school). Plus the QOL is a lot better. Do you want biglaw? If not, I'd seriously consider trying to get as much money out of Baylor or tech as you can

[Titleist]

Not too concerned about big law- I just want a job.

Conventional wisdom says UH over Baylor. But only paying 10k a year for school sounds amazing. I guess it will come down to A. How much can I negotiate a scholarship from UH and B. IF (big if) I do get in SMU will I get any money.

If SMU throws a little money at me I think I will grab that offer.

[b.gump81]

If you don't really want biglaw, why would you consider spending an extra $75,000-100,000 ITE to attend smu or uh over Baylor or tech? I'm not trying to be rude or anything. Just curious

[Titleist]

Because SMU and UH have better job prospects. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I will be satisfied working for the public defenders office or something. I just want to have a solid job lined up and I think UH and SMU give me the best shot of that. Whether or not its big law is a different animal.


Also, I think it would be case closed on Baylor if it were not for the extra hours/quarter system and practice court.

[kalvano]

Baylor is miserable. Go to Tech before Baylor.

[b.gump81]

Because SMU and UH have better job prospects. Don't get me wrong, it's not like I will be satisfied working for the public defenders office or something. I just want to have a solid job lined up and I think UH and SMU give me the best shot of that. Whether or not its big law is a different animal.

outside of biglaw, what evidence do you have to support this? Once you get out of biglaw, prestige is less important (unless you want academia, doj honors, or something similar), and class rank, journal, and experience becomes more of a factor than where you went to school (unless you go to a t14, but once you get out of the top 20-25, the USNWR rankings matter a whole lot less). Besides biglaw, the numbers suggest there really isn't that much of a difference, especially not enough to warrant an extra $75,000-100,000. Just to give the numbers:

UH (2010) had:
Private Practice 57.5%
Business & Industry 23%
Government 9.2%
Judicial Clerk 4.2%
Public Interest 4.2%
Academic 1.9%

Tech (2010) had:
Private Practice 54.1%
Business & Industry 18.4%
Government 17.3%
Judicial Clerk 6.1%
Public Interest 2.6%
Academic 1.5%


for the firm breakdown (2008):

UH:
58.1% of the class went into private practice
4.2% of that percentage went into solo practice
32.1% went to firm with 2-10 attorneys
17.6% to 11-25
4.2% to 26-50
1.8% to 51-100
3.6% to 101-250
15.8% to 251-500
20.6% to firm with 501+

TTU:
54.3% of the class went into private practice
4.6% of that percentage went into solo practice
49.1% went to firm with 2-10 attorneys
14.8% to 11-25
12% to 26-50
1.9% to 51-100
3.7% to 101-250
2.8% to 251-500
7.4% to firm with 501+

Sure, UH has some better numbers for biglaw, but outside of that, the numbers aren't that different, and in my opinion, not significant enough to warrant that kind of extra money ITE.

Also, I think it would be case closed on Baylor if it were not for the extra hours/quarter system and practice court.

Tech doesnt have these, and it would be just as cheap for you as baylor. what else does baylor have that Tech doesn't, besides more miserable, debt-ridden students? The number comparison between baylor and tech is even closer than uh and tech. UH at least has Houston, but Baylor isn't in a major legal market.

[Titleist]

Why I said that about Baylor is my current scholarships make it a lot cheaper than any other school.

Ultimately, if I get in to SMU I would NEVER go there with out a large scholarship.

My hope is that given my Baylor and Tech scholarship (and hopefully OU and LSU ones) I will be able to negotiate a scholarship from UH.

In your opinion how much more is it worth to spend on UH compared to Tech?

[kalvano]

UofH doesn't give much in scholarship money. I wouldn't plan on getting a lot from them.

[Titleist]

That is what I gathered.


Any idea on a ballpark figure I would land?

[b.gump81]

In your opinion how much more is it worth to spend on UH compared to Tech?

It depends on what the student wants to have as a job and where. If the student wants a better shot at biglaw or wants to stay in Houston, I'd say ~20,000-30,000 total after three years seems about right to me. Because with the way the legal market is and with biglaw jobs (or any legal job really) being scarce, you are running the risk of getting about the same job (or worse, no job at all) with more debt on your back. If they don't want biglaw or aren't dead set on Houston, Id say a lot less.

[Titleist]

So basically if you are not in the ~10% at UH you will have the same job prospects as a Tech grad?

[1212]

Just wanted to add a quick note about Baylor:

Nicole Maciopinto (director of admissions and student recruitment at Baylor) came to our Pre-Law Society meeting just last night. She mentioned that if you are at of above the median at Baylor (which you are at the median for fall start and above for spring and summer start, you should apply to all 3, especially since its free!) then merit scholarships are likel, some of which have a 2.0 grade stip.

Also, they have a scholarship just for people that participated in mock trial/moot court on the collegiate level that you seem to qualify for.

In the off chance that you went to Texas A&M there is also a scholarship (Nance) that is just for Ags going to Baylor Law. Apps are due Monday, only one person has applied and two are available.


Good Luck!

[eaper]

Just wanted to add a quick note about Baylor:

Nicole Maciopinto (director of admissions and student recruitment at Baylor) came to our Pre-Law Society meeting just last night. She mentioned that if you are at of above the median at Baylor (which you are at the median for fall start and above for spring and summer start, you should apply to all 3, especially since its free!) then merit scholarships are likel, some of which have a 2.0 grade stip.

Also, they have a scholarship just for people that participated in mock trial/moot court on the collegiate level that you seem to qualify for.

In the off chance that you went to Texas A&M there is also a scholarship (Nance) that is just for Ags going to Baylor Law. Apps are due Monday, only one person has applied and two are available.


Good Luck!

Oh another Ag. Howdy! Anyways, I was going to apply for the scholarship, but the GPA line was higher than what I was told (T_T).
Anyways, if you want to stay in Houston, U of H is significantly better.

Also, in terms of employment that was posted earlier, you may want to compare the two using law school transparency (Links to the site don't work on TLS). For Tech, 32% of all graduates have a known salary range, putting them in the 20.8 percentile, while at U of H, 63.7% of all graduates have a known salary range, putting it in the 80.7 percentile.You may want to compare the two to find more specific stats (I won't copy paste all of it for you:P).

[Mce252]

I wouldn't expect much from UH. They're historically rather stingy. I'm surprised about the amount from Tech as well. If I were you, I would go to UH or SMU. Baylor isn't a bad school I don't think but the fact that it's not in a major market is a huge problem for graduates.

[Titleist]

I foresee myself at either UH or SMU. I want SMU but I will probably be wait-listed/no scholarship. Which leaves UH, which I am more than happy with, who better give me some money.

If no money from UH I will have a tough decision.

[kalvano]

So basically if you are not in the ~10% at UH you will have the same job prospects as a Tech grad?

Horseshit.

[Mce252]

So basically if you are not in the ~10% at UH you will have the same job prospects as a Tech grad?

Horseshit.

Yeah, Tech has nice facilities and probably a decent faculty but being way the hell out in no man's land makes it too hard to find a job.

[Titleist]

So basically if you are not in the ~10% at UH you will have the same job prospects as a Tech grad?

Horseshit.

Not according to Gump.


Too many conflicting opinions.

[kalvano]

Gump has a wildly slanted view of law school.

Top 10% at UofH will have access to opportunities that Tech grads will never get; top 1/3 to top 1/2 at UofH will open doors that would require top 10% - 15% at Tech.

Regardless of what Gumpy likes to say, this is a prestige driven world, and the name on your degree matters a lot. I wouldn't have gotten my summer job if I didn't go to SMU and was at the same class rank at Tech or somewhere like that.

[eaper]

Gump has a wildly slanted view of law school.

Top 10% at UofH will have access to opportunities that Tech grads will never get; top 1/3 to top 1/2 at UofH will open doors that would require top 10% - 15% at Tech.

Regardless of what Gumpy likes to say, this is a prestige driven world, and the name on your degree matters a lot. I wouldn't have gotten my summer job if I didn't go to SMU and was at the same class rank at Tech or somewhere like that.

We could always try to get some current U of H and Tech students with grade cut off info from firms to get exact numbers, but I'm inclined to think Kalvano is a little bit closer than gumpy.

[patrickd139]

Moar anecdotal advice: Just wanted to drop by and say that if you a) want biglaw or midlaw and b) want that job to be in Dallas, do not go to OU.

This is coming from an OU student. It's a miserable, miserable experience trying to get back to Dallas. This year, there are no fewer than 4 of us in the top 10 (people, not percent), all of whom are FROM Texas, went to undergrad there and are well-connected (or at least as well connected as you can be in law school) to the legal market. Exactly one got Dallas biglaw. S/he's number one in the class and hustled like crazy to get the job. There was one (1) firm from Dallas which interviewed through OCI. No one has gotten Dallas midlaw as of late.

Make all the ITE and "wow you must suck at interviewing" comments you'd like, but I'd be very hesitant in choosing OU over a Texas school (any Texas school) if you want Dallas midlaw or biglaw. This despite the ridiculous comments from the administration here. A few of my favorites: "Dallas is, like, you know, basically the Southern District of Oklahoma as far as hiring." and "As long as you end up in the top 15% or so, you'll have your pick of jobs in Dallas." Those are both from the Dean of Admissions.

[Titleist]

Like I said, I'm really only considering UH, Baylor and SMU at this point.

How much leverage will a scholarship from OU, LSU and Tech be to these schools given that they are lower ranked?

[kalvano]

You should only be considering UofH and SMU.

SMU doesn't negotiate, and UofH is pretty stingy, but they are cheaper than other schools.

[HBK]

To be honest I'm not considering either school. Both are safety schools that I plan on using as scholarship leverage.

It's basically going to come down to UH, Baylor and SMU.

Thoughts on Baylor at 30k a year compared to UH with possibly no scholarship or around 5-10k?

Hey, UH will negotiate. I got a great scholarship from SMU and nothing from UH. I called UH and told them "with the amount SMU is offering, it will be cheaper for me to go there than to go to UH." I got a scholarship offer via email about an hour later.

/in full disclosure, the offer was just enough to make them about even or a little cheaper than SMU. I chose SMU because it offered better opportunities and I didn't like the UH campus.

[patrickd139]

Like I said, I'm really only considering UH, Baylor and SMU at this point.

How much leverage will a scholarship from OU, LSU and Tech be to these schools given that they are lower ranked?

My OU scholarship was worthless, YMMV.