3.962/159 AA Female Forum

[20121109]

If you want to get into Yale, a retake is your only option.

Coming from another African American female, PLEASE do not play the race card. You want to go to Yale if you know that you are kick ass and better than everyone that got rejected. You don't want to be at a school where everyone thinks that you are the token black kid who only go accepted because she was black. If you want Yale, retake and bust your ass to score in the high 160s or 170s. Its not worth it if its not earned.

If you can't retake, apply to a lower ranked school where your are more qualified and shine there.

Tbh, almost everyone assumes that URMs are there in a major part because of race. It's undeniable.

That's not to say that people assume URMs are any less formidable.

But people do know you probably had a less qualified LSAT/GPA.

It's just fact.

The first bolded is dangerous advice. Apply to a lower-ranked school and shine? No, get into the best school you can, or a strong T20 with $$$ and then work your ass off, take practice exams and do all you can to be at the top of your class, URM or not. There is no guarantee that you will be at the top of your class just because you went to a school that is not as highly ranked as another. I would rather attend a top school and give myself some cushion...because for hiring purposes, employers are more likely to dig deep into the classes of top schools rather those lower-ranked.

Also, I agree with the second bolded. It is unavoidable. I had a 166/166/172/3.91, but I'm sure a lot of people think that I only got accepted to LS as a result of the URM boost alone.

[lsdream]

If you want to get into Yale, a retake is your only option.

Coming from another African American female, PLEASE do not play the race card. You want to go to Yale if you know that you are kick ass and better than everyone that got rejected. You don't want to be at a school where everyone thinks that you are the token black kid who only go accepted because she was black. If you want Yale, retake and bust your ass to score in the high 160s or 170s. Its not worth it if its not earned.

If you can't retake, apply to a lower ranked school where your are more qualified and shine there.

Tbh, almost everyone assumes that URMs are there in a major part because of race. It's undeniable.

That's not to say that people assume URMs are any less formidable.

But people do know you probably had a less qualified LSAT/GPA.

It's just fact.

The first bolded is dangerous advice. Apply to a lower-ranked school and shine? No, get into the best school you can, or a strong T20 with $$$ and then work your ass off, take practice exams and do all you can to be at the top of your class, URM or not. There is no guarantee that you will be at the top of your class just because you went to a school that is not as highly ranked as another. I would rather attend a top school and give myself some cushion...because for hiring purposes, employers are more likely to dig deep into the classes of top schools rather those lower-ranked.

Also, I agree with the second bolded. It is unavoidable. I had a 166/166/172/3.91, but I'm sure a lot of people think that I only got accepted to LS as a result of the URM boost alone.

Thanks GaiatheCheerleader - appreciate the advice.

[Champion]

.

[cutecarmel]

Apply to a lower rank school because she's not qualified for a T14 school and if she got in, it wouldn't be on her own merits, but rather because they wanted to let more black students in.
Just like any other applicant, she needs to apply for schools that she is qualified for. Apply to Yale as a stretch, but don't expect much.

I'm not telling her to apply to a T4 school, just to be realistic and not to use her race as a crutch. That's why black people who are legitamately qualified for T14 schools are thought down upon.

If you want to get into Yale, a retake is your only option.

Coming from another African American female, PLEASE do not play the race card. You want to go to Yale if you know that you are kick ass and better than everyone that got rejected. You don't want to be at a school where everyone thinks that you are the token black kid who only go accepted because she was black. If you want Yale, retake and bust your ass to score in the high 160s or 170s. Its not worth it if its not earned.

If you can't retake, apply to a lower ranked school where your are more qualified and shine there.

Tbh, almost everyone assumes that URMs are there in a major part because of race. It's undeniable.

That's not to say that people assume URMs are any less formidable.

But people do know you probably had a less qualified LSAT/GPA.

It's just fact.

The first bolded is dangerous advice. Apply to a lower-ranked school and shine? No, get into the best school you can, or a strong T20 with $$$ and then work your ass off, take practice exams and do all you can to be at the top of your class, URM or not. There is no guarantee that you will be at the top of your class just because you went to a school that is not as highly ranked as another. I would rather attend a top school and give myself some cushion...because for hiring purposes, employers are more likely to dig deep into the classes of top schools rather those lower-ranked.

Also, I agree with the second bolded. It is unavoidable. I had a 166/166/172/3.91, but I'm sure a lot of people think that I only got accepted to LS as a result of the URM boost alone.

[splitmuch]

3.74/179 AA Male. Been accepted at Michigan, UC Berkeley, Georgetown, Texas, UCLA, Vanderbilt, and Georgia thus far in my cycle and I applied at the end of October. If you don't want to retake you're still in great shape. Make sure your personal statement is strong, along with a diversity statement, and all around well put together application and you should be in a few schools in the T14 at the least. Don't listen to the nay-saying TLS'ers all the time

What could possibly make you think your experience is in any way informative of hers.

[cutecarmel]

.

[JamMasterJ]

A 165 and a 159, both way below Yale's (and most t14's) 25%, are irrelevant.

What? This is not true at all. By that logic the LSAT shouldn't matter at all to URMs at reach schools.

Dude, the logic you use to combat his logic is even more flawed. Just because the 25th percentile doesn't matter with regard to URMs doesn't mean that "the LSAT shouldn't matter at all."

It's not flawed, its just not (explicitly) stating a premise. If a "reach" is defined as being below 25th percentile, then saying the difference between two scores both below the 25th percentile is "irrelevant" is to say that the difference in LSAT doesn't matter at all for that "reach" subset.

I think one of us (probably me) misinterpreted his use of the 25th percentile. My point was that 25ths don't matter for URMs, especially AAs, because they get essentially a 10 point LSAT boost, but you were replying to the statement that the difference between a 159 and a 165 was nil.

[20121109]

Apply to a lower rank school because she's not qualified for a T14 school and if she got in, it wouldn't be on her own merits, but rather because they wanted to let more black students in.
Just like any other applicant, she needs to apply for schools that she is qualified for. Apply to Yale as a stretch, but don't expect much.

I'm not telling her to apply to a T4 school, just to be realistic and not to use her race as a crutch. That's why black people who are legitamately qualified for T14 schools are thought down upon.

With all due respect, just because you and others may think that she is not qualified for a T14 school, does not mean that she should not apply, get accepted, and then ultimately attend a T14. Adcomms certainly care about quotas, and padding stats, but they also care that accepted students can actually do the work of a 1L. If an adcomm did not think a candidate could do the work, they would not be accepted. LSAT/GPA is a good predictive measure of success for 1L, but it is not an infallible one.

Your reasoning about black people being thought down upon is inherently problematic. At the logical extreme, any black person who attends even a T4 school would be considered inferior simply because their melanin content implied that they used their race as a crutch. A T14 school's LSAT/GPA may be 170/3.7, but people will consider the AA in the room to have 163/3.4. A T4 LSAT/GPA combo may be 2.8/150, for example, but people may assume the black person in the room had a 2.7/148. Again, such reductionism on the basis of race is unavoidable whether she attends a top institution or not, and it would be foolish for OP to not consider a better school because of the external perceptions of her relative qualifications. People will look down on the merits of minorities regardless...she might as well get into the best school she can while she's being judged.

[vanwinkle]

With all due respect, just because you and others may think that she is not qualified for a T14 school, does not mean that she should not apply, get accepted, and then ultimately attend a T14. Adcomms certainly care about quotas, and padding stats, but they also care that accepted students can actually do the work of a 1L. If an adcomm did not think a candidate could do the work, they would not be accepted. LSAT/GPA is a good predictive measure of success for 1L, but it is not an infallible one.

Your reasoning about black people being thought down upon is inherently problematic. At the logical extreme, any black person who attends even a T4 school would be considered inferior simply because their melanin content implied that they used their race as a crutch. A T14 school's LSAT/GPA may be 170/3.7, but people will consider the AA in the room to have 163/3.4. A T4 LSAT/GPA combo may be 2.8/150, for example, but people may assume the black person in the room had a 2.7/148. Again, such reductionism on the basis of race is unavoidable whether she attends a top institution or not, and it would be foolish for OP to not consider a better school because of the external perceptions of her relative qualifications. People will look down on the merits of minorities regardless...she might as well get into the best school she can while she's being judged.

+1, but I'd like to add:

These forums are for giving people advice on where they can or cannot get admitted. They're not meant for arguing the merits or politics of AA. Posters who continue to debate the merits or politics of AA risk getting banned for flaming/trolling.

[shock259]

TLS always says retake, but a retake here can literally save you a hundred thousand dollars. Yes, the LSAT sucks, but figure it like they are paying you $100k to study.

[Champion]

3.74/179 AA Male. Been accepted at Michigan, UC Berkeley, Georgetown, Texas, UCLA, Vanderbilt, and Georgia thus far in my cycle and I applied at the end of October. If you don't want to retake you're still in great shape. Make sure your personal statement is strong, along with a diversity statement, and all around well put together application and you should be in a few schools in the T14 at the least. Don't listen to the nay-saying TLS'ers all the time

What could possibly make you think your experience is in any way informative of hers.

.

[Champion]

.

[20121109]

3.74/159 AA Male. Been accepted at Michigan, UC Berkeley, Georgetown, Texas, UCLA, Vanderbilt, and Georgia thus far in my cycle and I applied at the end of October. If you don't want to retake you're still in great shape. Make sure your personal statement is strong, along with a diversity statement, and all around well put together application and you should be in a few schools in the T14 at the least. Don't listen to the nay-saying TLS'ers all the time

SN: I reposted this because I typed in the wrong LSAT earlier in the thread.

Lol

I was gonna say...if you actually had a 179 you should only consider HYS or a Hamilton at C, Rubenstein at the other C, or a possible AnnBryce at N.

[Flash]

There's an AA male at Chicago whose numbers were both lower than OP's. FWIW.

[rgndvo]

Apply to a lower rank school because she's not qualified for a T14 school and if she got in, it wouldn't be on her own merits, but rather because they wanted to let more black students in.
Just like any other applicant, she needs to apply for schools that she is qualified for. Apply to Yale as a stretch, but don't expect much.

I'm not telling her to apply to a T4 school, just to be realistic and not to use her race as a crutch. That's why black people who are legitamately qualified for T14 schools are thought down upon.

With all due respect, just because you and others may think that she is not qualified for a T14 school, does not mean that she should not apply, get accepted, and then ultimately attend a T14. Adcomms certainly care about quotas, and padding stats, but they also care that accepted students can actually do the work of a 1L. If an adcomm did not think a candidate could do the work, they would not be accepted. LSAT/GPA is a good predictive measure of success for 1L, but it is not an infallible one.

Your reasoning about black people being thought down upon is inherently problematic. At the logical extreme, any black person who attends even a T4 school would be considered inferior simply because their melanin content implied that they used their race as a crutch. A T14 school's LSAT/GPA may be 170/3.7, but people will consider the AA in the room to have 163/3.4. A T4 LSAT/GPA combo may be 2.8/150, for example, but people may assume the black person in the room had a 2.7/148. Again, such reductionism on the basis of race is unavoidable whether she attends a top institution or not, and it would be foolish for OP to not consider a better school because of the external perceptions of her relative qualifications. People will look down on the merits of minorities regardless...she might as well get into the best school she can while she's being judged.

As an aside, I am an URM who had a similar LSAT story (worked my butt off to get from 167 to 172 in Oct) to Gaia, although a much lower GPA. I don't think it's necessarily racism that motivates that impression; it's the statistical fact that URM's tend to have much lower numbers than whites&Non-URMS at a given school. Given this fact, stereotyping is likely unavoidable, exists everywhere, and should not deter OP from trying to enroll in T6 or even T3 schools.

[splitmuch]

Oh wow. My bad!! 159 LSAT

Ah i got ya, no problem I'm a typo machene

[cutecarmel]

.

[JamMasterJ]

3.74/159 AA Male. Been accepted at Michigan, UC Berkeley, Georgetown, Texas, UCLA, Vanderbilt, and Georgia thus far in my cycle and I applied at the end of October. If you don't want to retake you're still in great shape. Make sure your personal statement is strong, along with a diversity statement, and all around well put together application and you should be in a few schools in the T14 at the least. Don't listen to the nay-saying TLS'ers all the time

SN: I reposted this because I typed in the wrong LSAT earlier in the thread.

I think the general consensus, especially among the highly active members of TLS, is that she is in a great position to get into CCN and with a strong retake, is in at HYS

[vanwinkle]

I never told her not to apply. I'm telling her that her chances are slim and if she gets in, its likely that she's in, its because she's black and not because she deserves it.

And now you are tempbanned for ignoring mod warnings, and trying to continue an AA debate.

--ImageRemoved--

This dead horse has been beat enough. I hope you get it, before you get banned again.

[JamMasterJ]

I never told her not to apply. I'm telling her that her chances are slim and if she gets in, its likely that she's in, its because she's black and not because she deserves it.

And now you are tempbanned for ignoring mod warnings, and trying to continue an AA debate.

--ImageRemoved--

This dead horse has been beat enough. I hope you get it, before you get banned again.

I see what you did there

[JustE]

Shit. I stand corrected. Sounds like she can pull a few (maybe several) T14s. I understand the situation, only wish she could retake and get the cash a 3.9 deserves. Either way, sounds like you're in. I'll trade you an LSAT score for your GPA!

Good luck this cycle!

[20121109]

I don't think it's necessarily racism that motivates that impression; it's the statistical fact that URM's tend to have much lower numbers than whites&Non-URMS at a given school. Given this fact, stereotyping is likely unavoidable, exists everywhere, and should not deter OP from trying to enroll in T6 or even T3 schools.

Solid point