3.5 159 AA Male*Thread Update 3.4 162 Forum

[bk1]

According to LSN, a 159 might put you in the running at some t-14.

I disagree about retaking. You're an AA male.

Studying for the LSAT sucks for everyone. Who actually enjoyed it? Nobody likes studying in general. I think the point they're making is you should suck it up, but I think a 159 might be enough for some great schools.

This is honestly some very atrocious advice.

[JustE]

According to LSN, a 159 might put you in the running at some t-14.

I disagree about retaking. You're an AA male.

Studying for the LSAT sucks for everyone. Who actually enjoyed it? Nobody likes studying in general. I think the point they're making is you should suck it up, but I think a 159 might be enough for some great schools.

Anyone agree? I think this cycle has waitlist written all over it... the GPA is solid, but if he misses the T14 because he didn't retake, he might hate himself this time next year (like me). Don't chance it. You're a lock if you bump the score up just a few points. If you need materials or a plan, pm me and I'll send you what you need.

[20121109]

According to LSN, a 159 might put you in the running at some t-14.

I disagree about retaking. You're an AA male.

Studying for the LSAT sucks for everyone. Who actually enjoyed it? Nobody likes studying in general. I think the point they're making is you should suck it up, but I think a 159 might be enough for some great schools.

How ironic that such a sentiment is coming from you.

OP, never settle. If you think you can do better, then study and retake. A 3-4 point increase will do wonders for your cycle, not only in terms of potential schools but also potential scholly money. A 159 may be enough but why be just enough if you think you can do better? If anything, you should go into the test center knowing that you're already in a good position diminishing any possible anxiety that may adversely affect your performance.

[yngblkgifted]

Op, the amount of work that is involved with studying for the LSAT pales in comparison to the amount of work it will take to get through law school. I hate to say it but suck it up if this is what you really want. Not trying to be mean, but being an AA male who had just gone through the application process, I know what types of opportunities you are giving up if you decide not to go ahead and re-take this test.

As you stand right now, you have a shot at a T!0 school for sticker. I know AA males IRL with similar numbers going to T10 schools. While this is a great option, echoing other posters, why sell yourself short? I can understand if you've taken the test 3 times and have put in over a year of studying, but this is just simply being lazy.

No matter what anybody says, you have a real shot at YHS with a 165+ and even if you don't land one with that score, you will get a significant amount of money from a T10.

Best of Luck!

Edit: Also, if the LSAT is becoming fun after a while, you're doing it wrong! I'd recommend taking a prep-course.

[fl0w]

As someone that was similarly situated, I would advise you to retake. I honestly don't remember anymore but I think my first show was a 155. I thought about not retaking and that would have been a FATAL mistake. Look how many waitlists I was on even with a 161.

I'm telling you 165 is the magic number for a person like you. Shoot for it. The test is much easier to do the second time around because you've been there and done that. That isn't to say you still don't study your @$$ off; it's just that you've been through it and don't have the same anxiety.

When I said think america's best dance crew, it was in reference to me running a hip hop dance company, being asked to submit choreography for So You Think You Can Dance, etc. (don't want to hijack your thread w/ all that stuff)

[flexityflex86]

According to LSN, a 159 might put you in the running at some t-14.

I disagree about retaking. You're an AA male.

Studying for the LSAT sucks for everyone. Who actually enjoyed it? Nobody likes studying in general. I think the point they're making is you should suck it up, but I think a 159 might be enough for some great schools.

How ironic that such a sentiment is coming from you.

OP, never settle. If you think you can do better, then study and retake. A 3-4 point increase will do wonders for your cycle, not only in terms of potential schools but also potential scholly money. A 159 may be enough but why be just enough if you think you can do better? If anything, you should go into the test center knowing that you're already in a good position diminishing any possible anxiety that may adversely affect your performance.

what i was saying is that most AA know particularly after speaking to somebody for consultation that a 159 will likely be enough for some top 10s, and my logic was if they can't use that as motivation to go from a 149 (cooley) to a 159 (upenn) then they should not be attending law school, and will likely make horrible lawyers if it is a lack of work ethic rather than just difficulty with the exam. let's just look at Jose Baez for instance - likely did terrible on the LSAT to go to St. Thomas where he had a ton of student loans from rather than UF, Stetson, UMiami, etc., but if you researched the case it was obvious that regardless of what you think about his trial skills, he worked his ass off.

I know you can argue that OP not retaking a 159 can show a lack of work ethic, but bypassing a retake on a 159 to try to get a 165 would be like a non-URM applicant bypassing a retake on a 170 to try to get a 175 out of fear of dropping/too much work for not a great return, etc. A retake might be TCR, but you can certainly see a counter argument, which you cannot see for a non-URM not retaking a 155 or a URM not retaking a 145, etc.

My point is bypassing a retake when objectively the current score has been shown time and time again to be enough is not irresponsible. It is when people assume they will be the great exception to the rule, because they were president of their frat or interned at some little piece of crap law firm that is redunkulous.

[JustE]

I know you can argue that OP not retaking a 159 can show a lack of work ethic, but bypassing a retake on a 159 to try to get a 165 would be like a non-URM applicant bypassing a retake on a 170 to try to get a 175 out of fear of dropping/too much work for not a great return, etc. A retake might be TCR, but you can certainly see a counter argument, which you cannot see for a non-URM not retaking a 155 or a URM not retaking a 145, etc.

I'll agree to disagree. 159 to 165 is a huge jump in this scenario and well worth the time. I really don't see any argument for not re-taking unless you simply don't think your score will improve.

I also don't think 159 is a safe place to be for any URM (AA Males included) unless you're in the 3.7+ range. This screams re-take.

[flexityflex86]

you realize most people settle for a 152, and don't retake cause it's too much work? you realize this is the average law applicant? i agree a 165 is much better, but you can't expect everyone to be hardworking. this is america, land of the entitled and unrealistic dreams. why do you think the economy sucks so bad?

[JustE]

you realize most people settle for a 152, and don't retake cause it's too much work? you realize this is the average law applicant? i agree a 165 is much better, but you can't expect everyone to be hardworking. this is america, land of the entitled and unrealistic dreams. why do you think the economy sucks so bad?

You realize this is "Top Law Schools.com", not "Average Law Schools.com"? You realize OP's here because he wants sound advice? I couldn't care less what most Americans do or think and won't touch the economy comment. Most Americans don't want to spend 3 years on a law degree (or 4 years on an undergraduate degree for that matter).

OP wants top dollars at a good school. If he doesn't think his score will improve, he shouldn't waste his time. If he thinks it will and wants the best options, he should retake and break as high into the 160s as he can. I hear him on the stress and it took me months to settle on re-taking as well, but $100k from a T14 is worth a few months of misery. It's just a matter of priorities. A few points will make a huge difference in the long run.

I'm not sure what you're accustomed to or how you live your life, but I hope you encourage people to aim as high as they can instead of always settling for the norm.

E

[fl0w]

. . . I could couldn't care less . . . .

sorry, pet peeve of mine. but i agree that OP should retake. And I REALLY didn't want to retake. But I knew it was "best for me."

[JustE]

. . . I could couldn't really don't give a damn . . . .

sorry, pet peeve of mine. but i agree that OP should retake. And I REALLY didn't want to retake. But I knew it was "best for me."

Fixed. Thanks!

[Quan292]

Im loving all of these replies and the strong support group of AA males (and everyone in general) support. I understand that with my score I would get into a great law school which is an amazing feat to everyone i talk to in itself so it may seem like overkill to them but I think I should stick with the re-take. I really do feel like I can gain a couple points and according to LSN that's where the $$$ will come in. Also there is a good chance that I will have a fee waiver for this test so it will be free. I'm definitely going to refer back to you guys when I have question with my upcoming cycle. Wish me luck on this re-take and thank you for all of the replies.

[yngblkgifted]

you realize most people settle for a 152, and don't retake cause it's too much work? you realize this is the average law applicant? i agree a 165 is much better, but you can't expect everyone to be hardworking. this is america, land of the entitled and unrealistic dreams. why do you think the economy sucks so bad?

No. The average LSAT taker gets a 152. The average applicant scores higher.

[Blessedassurance]

Was set on retaking but now i'm worried. my diagnostic was a 14d so I already have made a 17 point jump Spoke to a friend who said that most people get at most 15 points higher from cold to real test. Also some sat calcuator thing said my lsat score is pretty much on the same path as my sat. Also my undergrad pre-law office advises against retakes. still leaning toward retake but im wondering if these worries are valid?

Study your ass off and retake. There is no reason any of that should apply to you. You need all the confidence in the world going in.

[Quan292]

Thread Updated with October results.