Strong Softs, 164/3.92 December LSAT Forum

[justadude55]

So I graduated May 2010 with a 3.89 which LSAC recalculated to a 3.92. I was forced to take the December LSAT, because from June to November I was the field director of a State Senate campaign. It's in a state where the state legislature is fairly prestigious and competitive, and our candidate won in the primary and general elections. Just got done with my applications. I realize it's kind of dicey because I was so late in the game with my apps, so I applied to a ton of schools. Here is the info:

GPA 3.92
LSAT 164
Phi Beta Kappa
summa cum laude
Highest Honors on Senior Thesis
Poli Sci/Spanish double major
English/Spanish bilingual

school list:
HLS - 0% Chance
YLS - 0% Chance
SLS - 0% Chance
Columbia - 0% Chance
NYU - 0% Chance
UPenn - 0% Chance
UChicago - 0% Chance
Northwestern 0% Chance
UC Berkeley - 0% Chance
UMichigan - 0% Chance
Duke - 0% Chance
UVA - 0% Chance
UCLA - 0% Chance
Georgetown - 0% Chance
GW - IN/IN
BU - WL/IN
BC - IN
Colorado - $
Northeastern - $
UWashington - $

How are my chances? I have to imagine that I get into somewhere decent right?

[FuManChusco]

So I graduated May 2010 with a 3.89 which LSAC recalculated to a 3.92. I was forced to take the December LSAT, because from June to November I was the field director of a State Senate campaign. It's in a state where the state legislature is fairly prestigious and competitive, and our candidate won in the primary and general elections. Just got done with my applications. I realize it's kind of dicey because I was so late in the game with my apps, so I applied to a ton of schools. Here is the info:

GPA 3.92
LSAT 164
Phi Beta Kappa
summa cum laude
Highest Honors on Senior Thesis
Poli Sci/Spanish double major
English/Spanish bilingual

school list:
HLS - 0% Chance
YLS - 0% Chance
SLS - 0% Chance
Columbia - 0% Chance
NYU - 0% Chance
UPenn - 0% Chance
UChicago - 0% Chance
Northwestern 0% Chance
UC Berkeley - 0% Chance
UMichigan - 0% Chance
Duke - 0% Chance
UVA - 0% Chance
UCLA - 0% Chance
Georgetown - 0% Chance
GW - IN/IN
BU - WL/IN
BC - IN
Colorado - $
Northeastern - $
UWashington - $

How are my chances? I have to imagine that I get into somewhere decent right?

This is way more reasonable than all of the other predictions. 164 is too low and those softs aren't really strong. T18 seems out of the question.

[Jumborific]

I feel like a lot of the folks on this site are perhaps overly pessimistic. The truth is, most people on this didn't even think I had a shot at BU or GW, and I was admitted to both.... So this is clearly more than just a numbers game... Although given that I am already on four wait-lists ( try to guess ) I am kicking myself for not having applied sooner, because it seems like I would have gotten into some of these places had I applied October and not January.

Peace and love

[ATR]

...

[FuManChusco]

I feel like a lot of the folks on this site are perhaps overly pessimistic. The truth is, most people on this didn't even think I had a shot at BU or GW, and I was admitted to both.... So this is clearly more than just a numbers game... Although given that I am already on four wait-lists ( try to guess ) I am kicking myself for not having applied sooner, because it seems like I would have gotten into some of these places had I applied October and not January.

Peace and love

no offense, but I clearly said it was reasonable to get accepted from GW down, as did others, and the bolded seems like a huge assumption. I don't see how you can say it's overly pessimistic when we were right. good luck with the cycle though.

[spets]

Congrats on the cycle thus far.

[ResolutePear]

I feel like a lot of the folks on this site are perhaps overly pessimistic. The truth is, most people on this didn't even think I had a shot at BU or GW, and I was admitted to both.... So this is clearly more than just a numbers game... Although given that I am already on four wait-lists ( try to guess ) I am kicking myself for not having applied sooner, because it seems like I would have gotten into some of these places had I applied October and not January.

Peace and love

no offense, but I clearly said it was reasonable to get accepted from GW down, as did others, and the bolded seems like a huge assumption. I don't see how you can say it's overly pessimistic when we were right. good luck with the cycle though.

This.

I don't understand the point of schooling for 15 years to get to a point and is somehow not willing to take 6 months-1yr to improve on a single 3.5 hour test that will mean the different between a sub T18 and CCN.

[ATR]

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[Grizz]

I don't understand the point of schooling for 15 years to get to a point and is somehow not willing to take 6 months-1yr to improve on a single 3.5 hour test that will mean the different between a sub T18 and CCN.

But it's haaaaaaaaaaaaaard!

The LSAT is hard. I don't want to take the time and energy to retake. I know if I will apply myself I will be top 10% easy in law school, especially since my GPA is over the 75th%tiles.

[HeavenWood]

I don't understand the point of schooling for 15 years to get to a point and is somehow not willing to take 6 months-1yr to improve on a single 3.5 hour test that will mean the different between a sub T18 and CCN.

But it's haaaaaaaaaaaaaard!

Some people suck at this test. It took me nine months of study to get from a 156 diagnostic to a 162-164 PT range. I got very lucky on test day (besting my PT high by one point) and subsequently got very lucky this cycle with my choice of ED. I'm not saying that retake isn't TCR (it most definitely is), but not everyone is capable of scoring a 170+ either.

[ATR]

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[bluecanary622]

/

[HeavenWood]

And as for this whole, "take a year off to improve your score to get from a T20 school to a sub T18 or better school"... seriously?! it's pathetic.

Taking a year off to increase one's odds of gainful employment is smart, not pathetic. Going to GW at sticker ITE leaves you with a sub-30% shot of being able to repay your loans.

[FuManChusco]

Hahaha it's hilarious to me that all of this is coming from someone with a 169, a WL at Duke/GULC/UVA, and an icon of the dude from Smallville... really?

I'm with you Jumborific... some people think admissions is 100% about numbers--but as every single dean of admissions has stated--it isn't. for some reason i'm going to defer to their opinion and not some random pompous person who can hide behind a computer on a message board.

Not only that, but all this GW bashing really has to stop. GW is ranked #20 for a reason. if you really think that graduating from the #20 law school in the US is going to leave you with a miserable, lonesome life where you'll be pinching pennies forever.. you really don't deserve to go to any law school. Every single person on this site who will be attending law school--let alone a top 20 law school--this fall should be incredibly proud.

And as for this whole, "take a year off to improve your score to get from a T20 school to a sub T18 or better school"... seriously?! it's pathetic.

--ImageRemoved--

[bluecanary622]

.

[FuManChusco]

And as for this whole, "take a year off to improve your score to get from a T20 school to a sub T18 or better school"... seriously?! it's pathetic.

Taking a year off to increase one's odds of gainful employment is smart, not pathetic. Going to GW at sticker ITE leaves you with a sub-30% shot of being able to repay your loans.

i wonder why over 200 law schools exist if going to the #20 law school isn't worth it. so weird.

you had to make me do it.

--ImageRemoved--

[bluecanary622]

And as for this whole, "take a year off to improve your score to get from a T20 school to a sub T18 or better school"... seriously?! it's pathetic.

Taking a year off to increase one's odds of gainful employment is smart, not pathetic. Going to GW at sticker ITE leaves you with a sub-30% shot of being able to repay your loans.

i wonder why over 200 law schools exist if going to the #20 law school isn't worth it. so weird.

you had to make me do it.

--ImageRemoved--

and this is why i hate TLS

[ATR]

...

[bluecanary622]

Hahaha it's hilarious to me that all of this is coming from someone with a 169, a WL at Duke/GULC/UVA, and an icon of the dude from Smallville... really?

Not sure what purpose attacking me is supposed to serve. I am happy with how my cycle turned out.

I'm with you Jumborific... some people think admissions is 100% about numbers--but as every single dean of admissions has stated--it isn't. for some reason i'm going to defer to their opinion and not some random pompous person who can hide behind a computer on a message board.

Of course it's not entirely about numbers. However, the most important elements of admissions, by FAR, are GPA, LSAT, and URM status. Also, if you're referring to me as pompous, maybe you should reread my post where I admit I once thought like the OP, but TLS posters humbled me and showed me that a retake was a great decision.

Not only that, but all this GW bashing really has to stop. GW is ranked #20 for a reason. if you really think that graduating from the #20 law school in the US is going to leave you with a miserable, lonesome life where you'll be pinching pennies forever.. you really don't deserve to go to any law school. Every single person on this site who will be attending law school--let alone a top 20 law school--this fall should be incredibly proud.

GW is a fine school, but going there at sticker -- and accruing $220,000 of debt -- if simply an unwise decision. Pinching pennies is not the same as trying to avoid a potentially terrible life choice. Have you read anything about the legal market since 2008? If you did, then you'd realize how off-point the last sentence of your paragraph truly is.

And as for this whole, "take a year off to improve your score to get from a T20 school to a sub T18 or better school"... seriously?! it's pathetic.

Look at the stats. There is a pretty big gulf between those tiers when it comes to high-paying jobs out of school.

After seeing what bluecanary622 posted while I was typing this out, I'm beginning to think he's a terrible cliche.

Believe what you want, buddy.

oh man--thank god i signed up for TLS. now i know i'm just not meant to be a lawyer. thank you so much!

[bluecanary622]

Hahaha it's hilarious to me that all of this is coming from someone with a 169, a WL at Duke/GULC/UVA, and an icon of the dude from Smallville... really?

Of course it's not entirely about numbers. However, the most important elements of admissions, by FAR, are GPA, LSAT, and URM status. Also, if you're referring to me as pompous, maybe you should reread my post where I admit I once thought like the OP, but TLS posters humbled me and showed me that a retake was a great decision.

Not only that, but all this GW bashing really has to stop. GW is ranked #20 for a reason. if you really think that graduating from the #20 law school in the US is going to leave you with a miserable, lonesome life where you'll be pinching pennies forever.. you really don't deserve to go to any law school. Every single person on this site who will be attending law school--let alone a top 20 law school--this fall should be incredibly proud.

hahaha oh man i'm still laughing that you made a huge life decision based on a message board.

[ATR]

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[HeavenWood]

oh man--thank god i signed up for TLS. now i know i'm just not meant to be a lawyer. thank you so much!

Interesting list of schools you applied to.

[ATR]

...

[gwuorbust]

Hahaha it's hilarious to me that all of this is coming from someone with a 169, a WL at Duke/GULC/UVA, and an icon of the dude from Smallville... really?

I'm with you Jumborific... some people think admissions is 100% about numbers--but as every single dean of admissions has stated--it isn't. for some reason i'm going to defer to their opinion and not some random pompous person who can hide behind a computer on a message board.

Not only that, but all this GW bashing really has to stop. GW is ranked #20 for a reason. if you really think that graduating from the #20 law school in the US is going to leave you with a miserable, lonesome life where you'll be pinching pennies forever.. you really don't deserve to go to any law school. Every single person on this site who will be attending law school--let alone a top 20 law school--this fall should be incredibly proud.

And as for this whole, "take a year off to improve your score to get from a T20 school to a sub T18 or better school"... seriously?! it's pathetic.

lololol @ the "dean said it's not about numbers, it must be truthz!!!"

in all seriousness, the evidence shows that admissions is almost all about numbers. schools want to make sure that they are rejecting a large number of students because that helps their ranking. that is why they give fee waivers to people with NO chance.

if deans came out and said, "yeah anyone with a 165 or 3.2 need not apply" then this would seriously hurt the number of applications. so yeah, the deans have a reason to say "we look at every aspect of the application and consider every applicant." and doubtless they do. but in the end 99.7% of those people have no chance.

plus, those people who do get in that are below the medians are the the people paying sticker. those are the people who are supporting the cost of law school.

basically if you get in, the school is using you for one of two purposes:

(1) your numbers (you are at least above the medians and there is a good chance you are given a scholarship)
(2)your loan money (you do not get a scholarship and you probably consider yourself lucky you got in)


note: I don't think schools are acting maliciously. this is the rational "game theory" response to the ranking system created by the USNWR ranking system.

[bluecanary622]

hahaha oh man i'm still laughing that you made a huge life decision based on a message board.

How do you make decisions? I assume that you do some kind of research before you do things like buy a house, choose a school, or select a career path. I don't see the problem consulting with people who have gone through the exact same process as me when it comes to planning out my own life. Also, you're being ridiculous if you're assuming that TLS unilaterally dictates how I've handled my cycle.

my partner on match.com. my career path in an online questionnaire that told me what best fit my excellent personality traits. and my school on TLS, obviously.

1337!