2.96 and 157 Forum

[Grizz]

I didn't read all the responses (sorry) but I think if you want to work in Miami, go to U. of Miami! Go to You'll get in. Your LSAT is their median or so, and your GPA is a litttttle low but you are a URM so that will help.

If you have a connection to Miami already, better off with UF. Or many other T20ish schools.

Miami's not worth is unless you get something resembling a full scholarship.

I don't think he will get into UF with those numbers. And he has a good shot at Miami.

Obvious answer:

Retake or don't go.

[lawschool2014]

I didn't read all the responses (sorry) but I think if you want to work in Miami, go to U. of Miami! You'll get in. Your LSAT is their median or so, and your GPA is a litttttle low but you are a URM so that will help.

I would not recommend Miami for any reason whatsoever (Unless you get a full scholarship). It does suck that you did not achieve what you wanted on the LSAT. However, waiting a year and improving that score far beats attending one of the toilets. If you could manage BC (which is doubtful), I may be inclined to say attend at sticker. Bank on the URM and Learning disability to make up for your dismal GPA---but it wont get you too far unless you get at least a 160.

apply to reaches for a possible miracle, and if you get in great...if not, just retake and reapply.

Also, I am not saying this to be incredibly mean. However, with your learning disability (my brother has one too, so I'm not a hater) and your stats (low stats, low GPA) suggests that you are not the most academically inclined and will not graduate top 20% of your class. ITE, which is pretty much necessary for a non t14 to have before they take on 120k in debt

Good luck!

[Grizz]

I would not recommend Miami for any reason whatsoever (Unless you get a full scholarship). It does suck that you did not achieve what you wanted on the LSAT. However, waiting a year and improving that score far beats attending one of the toilets. If you could manage BC (which is doubtful), I may be inclined to say attend at sticker.

Sticker at BC? Ballsy. I wouldn't.

[tas817]

My low stats in GPA are not so much learning disability as it that at the time I didn't think I needed college (dumb 18-20 year kid). When I returned to school after 3 years and got serious about my academics I have had a 3.87. Is a huge upward trend in GPA simply going to be dismissed by law schools?
Or will they consider me a 3.87 student as my last 2 years in college clearly prove I am.
By the way folks I would suggest you guys stop telling everybody that doesn't get into premier law schools that the degree is worthless. My father is an Ivy league educated attorney (Columbia) who's partner went to a tier 4 and both are equally successful. Every experienced attorney will tell that you can more then make up for a no name school with hard work and competence.

[Grizz]

My low stats in GPA are not so much learning disability as it that at the time I didn't think I needed college (dumb 18-20 year kid). When I returned to school after 3 years and got serious about my academics I have had a 3.87. Is a huge upward trend in GPA simply going to be dismissed by law schools? Or will they consider me a 3.87 student as my last 2 years in college clearly prove I am.

Everyone and their mother has an upward trend unfortunately. I wouldn't put too much stock in it. Not enough to really affect you.

By the way folks I would suggest you guys stop telling everybody that doesn't get into premier law schools that the degree is worthless. My father is an Ivy league educated attorney (Columbia) who's partner went to a tier 4 and both are equally successful. Every experienced attorney will tell that you can more then make up for a no name school with hard work and competence.

Yeah you can, but I wouldn't take out a ton of debt for the slim shot at the money needed to pay back exorbitant loans. And if you want biglaw or Article III clerkships, a prestigious school will give you a much, much, much better shot than your run of the mill T2 or TTT. The legal market and the prices of law schools were radically different at the time your dad's partner went to school than they are now.

Also if you never get that first job at all (distinct possibility from many schools in this economy), it's gonna be real hard to prove to others (potential clients, other attorneys) that you work hard and are competent.

[bk1]

My low stats in GPA are not so much learning disability as it that at the time I didn't think I needed college (dumb 18-20 year kid). When I returned to school after 3 years and got serious about my academics I have had a 3.87. Is a huge upward trend in GPA simply going to be dismissed by law schools?
Or will they consider me a 3.87 student as my last 2 years in college clearly prove I am.
By the way folks I would suggest you guys stop telling everybody that doesn't get into premier law schools that the degree is worthless. My father is an Ivy league educated attorney (Columbia) who's partner went to a tier 4 and both are equally successful. Every experienced attorney will tell that you can more then make up for a no name school with hard work and competence.

Yes it is basically dismissed. These schools care about their numbers above all else. It doesn't matter if you went from a 0.0 one year to 4.0 for the next 3, they are still going to take into account your overall GPA exclusively because that is the one they have to report.

Of course you can make up the weakness of a crappy school, but those who do are the exception not the rule. You're paying 3 years of your life and 6 figures worth of debt for job prospects and job prospects only, don't pay for shit ones. People at lower ranked schools are massively unemployed or employed at jobs which can barely cover their loan repayments. The economy is much worse now than it was during current lawyers' job searches, take what they say with a grain of salt.

[justadude55]

I took the June 2010 lsat and got a 157. My current cumulative GPA is 2.96 but after my final semester this fall I think it will be 3.0 or above. A little background to help with advice; I began UG on an athletic scholarship in 2003. I was there for 2 years and did terrible had 2.0 (didn’t think school would matter, stupid me). I left school to pursue sport professionally for 3 years. Came back to school and have had a 3.8+ since. Probably end up graduating Summa Cum Laude. Have some good soft’s URM, learning disability, sports, and work experience. 3 good LOR's from Professors and from what everybody says a really good PS. Looking to start applying within next week for 2011.

Schools Applying;
Minnesota (fee waiver)
BC (legacy)
UF
FSU
Stetson
Nova
Miami
UI
Lewis and Clark (fee waiver)
Albany (fee waiver)
Michigan State (fee waiver)
Richmond (fee waiver)
Kentucky (fee waiver)
UNC
Indiana Bloomington
Wisconsin

If you could let me know what schools I have got a good shot at and which I don’t.

dude, id seriously retake. being a URM (if you are one of the URM's that qualify for law school URM status (i.e. Cuban doesn't work... the fact I have a Cuban relative does not help me. I don't want to specify the races that qualify for URM as to remain in good taste, but they are very specific and are a huge factor for you.) your disability will give you a slight edge, but it's negligible in relation to URM.

I'm going to say straight up that if you are not URM, , the overwhelming majority of these schools are not even in the running. If you are URM, retake the LSAT. If you got even a 160, I bet you'd get into one top 30 school. As a URM, you have an uncanny opportunity to get into almost any school 20-30, even with your 2.96.

As it stands:

Minnesota (rejection 99.9%)
BC (rejection 99.9%)
UF (rejection 75%)
FSU (in 75%)
Stetson (idk)
Nova (wl; in)
Miami (wl; in 60%)
UI (rejection 99.9%)
Lewis and Clark (idk)
Albany (in)
Michigan State (in--100% you can do better... they're tier 4 (150 or under range))
Richmond (idk their info)
Kentucky (rejection, 95%)
UNC (rejection, 95%)
Indiana Bloomington (rejection, 95%)
Wisconsin (rejection)

[bk1]

dude, id seriously retake. being a URM (if you are one of the URM's that qualify for law school URM status (i.e. Cuban doesn't work... the fact I have a Cuban relative does not help me. I don't want to specify the races that qualify for URM as to remain in good taste, but they are very specific and are a huge factor for you.) your disability will give you a slight edge, but it's negligible in relation to URM.

I'm going to say straight up that if you are not URM, , the overwhelming majority of these schools are not even in the running. If you are URM, retake the LSAT. If you got even a 160, I bet you'd get into one top 30 school. As a URM, you have an uncanny opportunity to get into almost any school 20-30, even with your 2.96.

So you mean Mexican American, Puerto Rican American, African American, and Native American.

[tas817]

The debt issue is fortunately for me is not going to be an issue and if I stay in Miami job prospects will also not be an a issue since my dad would love nothing more than for me to work for his law firm. Please focus your responses on the law schools that I listed and my chances of getting in based on my stats and background. Thank you.

[bk1]

The debt issue is fortunately for me is not going to be an issue and if I stay in Miami job prospects will also not be an a issue since my dad would love nothing more than for me to work for his law firm. Please focus your responses on the law schools that I listed and my chances of getting in based on my stats and background. Thank you.

If you have nepotism on your side then just go to cheapest possible school you can and make sure your scholarship has no strings attached.

[Barbie]

I took the June 2010 lsat and got a 157. My current cumulative GPA is 2.96 but after my final semester this fall I think it will be 3.0 or above. A little background to help with advice; I began UG on an athletic scholarship in 2003. I was there for 2 years and did terrible had 2.0 (didn’t think school would matter, stupid me). I left school to pursue sport professionally for 3 years. Came back to school and have had a 3.8+ since. Probably end up graduating Summa Cum Laude. Have some good soft’s URM, learning disability, sports, and work experience. 3 good LOR's from Professors and from what everybody says a really good PS. Looking to start applying within next week for 2011.

Schools Applying;
Minnesota (fee waiver)
BC (legacy)
UF
FSU
Stetson
Nova
Miami
UI
Lewis and Clark (fee waiver)
Albany (fee waiver)
Michigan State (fee waiver)
Richmond (fee waiver)
Kentucky (fee waiver)
UNC
Indiana Bloomington
Wisconsin

If you could let me know what schools I have got a good shot at and which I don’t.

dude, id seriously retake. being a URM (if you are one of the URM's that qualify for law school URM status (i.e. Cuban doesn't work... the fact I have a Cuban relative does not help me. I don't want to specify the races that qualify for URM as to remain in good taste, but they are very specific and are a huge factor for you.) your disability will give you a slight edge, but it's negligible in relation to URM.

I'm going to say straight up that if you are not URM, , the overwhelming majority of these schools are not even in the running. If you are URM, retake the LSAT. If you got even a 160, I bet you'd get into one top 30 school. As a URM, you have an uncanny opportunity to get into almost any school 20-30, even with your 2.96.

As it stands:

Minnesota (rejection 99.9%)
BC (rejection 99.9%)
UF (rejection 75%)
FSU (in 75%)
Stetson (idk)
Nova (wl; in)
Miami (wl; in 60%)
UI (rejection 99.9%)
Lewis and Clark (idk)
Albany (in)
Michigan State (in--100% you can do better... they're tier 4 (150 or under range))
Richmond (idk their info)
Kentucky (rejection, 95%)
UNC (rejection, 95%)
Indiana Bloomington (rejection, 95%)
Wisconsin (rejection)

In at FSU and WL at miami???

[justadude55]

My low stats in GPA are not so much learning disability as it that at the time I didn't think I needed college (dumb 18-20 year kid). When I returned to school after 3 years and got serious about my academics I have had a 3.87. Is a huge upward trend in GPA simply going to be dismissed by law schools?
Or will they consider me a 3.87 student as my last 2 years in college clearly prove I am.
By the way folks I would suggest you guys stop telling everybody that doesn't get into premier law schools that the degree is worthless. My father is an Ivy league educated attorney (Columbia) who's partner went to a tier 4 and both are equally successful. Every experienced attorney will tell that you can more then make up for a no name school with hard work and competence.

Yes it is basically dismissed. These schools care about their numbers above all else. It doesn't matter if you went from a 0.0 one year to 4.0 for the next 3, they are still going to take into account your overall GPA exclusively because that is the one they have to report.

Of course you can make up the weakness of a crappy school, but those who do are the exception not the rule. You're paying 3 years of your life and 6 figures worth of debt for job prospects and job prospects only, don't pay for shit ones. People at lower ranked schools are massively unemployed or employed at jobs which can barely cover their loan repayments. The economy is much worse now than it was during current lawyers' job searches, take what they say with a grain of salt.

+1

these schools are businesses. they are not lying when they say their employment prospects are great. this is their life. it's like asking somebody who lives in a particular country if it's a good place to live. they believe it, even if it needn't be true. without naming names in the interest of not damaging any school's reputation, several schools 35-60 approached me with fee waivers, and talking about scholarships. some were in tropical climates, and so i thought, why not just go to a tropical place with minimal debt and spend my lift there, especially after the admissions officers talked to me about how great the job placement is for their law school. well, after doing research, and seeing angry blog posts by alumnus at some of these schools waiting tables and working at starbucks, you better believe i crossed them all off my list. even if you do believe you are going to be top 10% which i presume 90% of the entering class believes, it's pretty darn stressful knowing you need to be the 1 in 10 to have a job!!!! it's like jack london's a call to the wild. just not worth it IMO. i'd rather play basketball at DUKE where I know NBA scouts will see me than at Appalachian State, even if I'd be the best on the team if you get my drift.

[justadude55]

I took the June 2010 lsat and got a 157. My current cumulative GPA is 2.96 but after my final semester this fall I think it will be 3.0 or above. A little background to help with advice; I began UG on an athletic scholarship in 2003. I was there for 2 years and did terrible had 2.0 (didn’t think school would matter, stupid me). I left school to pursue sport professionally for 3 years. Came back to school and have had a 3.8+ since. Probably end up graduating Summa Cum Laude. Have some good soft’s URM, learning disability, sports, and work experience. 3 good LOR's from Professors and from what everybody says a really good PS. Looking to start applying within next week for 2011.

Schools Applying;
Minnesota (fee waiver)
BC (legacy)
UF
FSU
Stetson
Nova
Miami
UI
Lewis and Clark (fee waiver)
Albany (fee waiver)
Michigan State (fee waiver)
Richmond (fee waiver)
Kentucky (fee waiver)
UNC
Indiana Bloomington
Wisconsin

If you could let me know what schools I have got a good shot at and which I don’t.

dude, id seriously retake. being a URM (if you are one of the URM's that qualify for law school URM status (i.e. Cuban doesn't work... the fact I have a Cuban relative does not help me. I don't want to specify the races that qualify for URM as to remain in good taste, but they are very specific and are a huge factor for you.) your disability will give you a slight edge, but it's negligible in relation to URM.

I'm going to say straight up that if you are not URM, , the overwhelming majority of these schools are not even in the running. If you are URM, retake the LSAT. If you got even a 160, I bet you'd get into one top 30 school. As a URM, you have an uncanny opportunity to get into almost any school 20-30, even with your 2.96.

As it stands:

Minnesota (rejection 99.9%)
BC (rejection 99.9%)
UF (rejection 75%)
FSU (in 75%)
Stetson (idk)
Nova (wl; in)
Miami (wl; in 60%)
UI (rejection 99.9%)
Lewis and Clark (idk)
Albany (in)
Michigan State (in--100% you can do better... they're tier 4 (150 or under range))
Richmond (idk their info)
Kentucky (rejection, 95%)
UNC (rejection, 95%)
Indiana Bloomington (rejection, 95%)
Wisconsin (rejection)

In at FSU and WL at miami???

isn't miami ranked like 62???? they're the only school i know in the 50-80 range. once you drop outta tier 1, i only researched schools with good weather.

[Barbie]

In at FSU and WL at miami???

isn't miami ranked like 62???? they're the only school i know in the 50-80 range. once you drop outta tier 1, i only researched schools with good weather.

Miami is mid 60s, but FSU is low 50s (in and out of T1) and UF high 40s...
I was just curious about getting accepted at FSU (which I don't think really takes almost anyone sub 160) but WL at Miami (whos LSAT range is 156-169 or so)

[justadude55]

i am not an expert, but i would imagine what type of URM you are could play a huge role. I am not going to define races, but certain types of Law School descriptions of URM are far less represented in the profession than other types of URM.

[justadude55]

In at FSU and WL at miami???

isn't miami ranked like 62???? they're the only school i know in the 50-80 range. once you drop outta tier 1, i only researched schools with good weather.

Miami is mid 60s, but FSU is low 50s (in and out of T1) and UF high 40s...
I was just curious about getting accepted at FSU (which I don't think really takes almost anyone sub 160) but WL at Miami (whos LSAT range is 156-169 or so)

169 at miami? maybe this is one of their top students. they start considering full scholarships at 165 according to my knowledge.

[Barbie]

In at FSU and WL at miami???

isn't miami ranked like 62???? they're the only school i know in the 50-80 range. once you drop outta tier 1, i only researched schools with good weather.

Miami is mid 60s, but FSU is low 50s (in and out of T1) and UF high 40s...
I was just curious about getting accepted at FSU (which I don't think really takes almost anyone sub 160) but WL at Miami (whos LSAT range is 156-169 or so)

169 at miami? maybe this is one of their top students. they start considering full scholarships at 165 according to my knowledge.

typeo 159. I'm just saying FSU is considerably more difficult to get accepted to. and it serves right, FSU is better ranked and cheapuh!

[Grizz]

The debt issue is fortunately for me is not going to be an issue and if I stay in Miami job prospects will also not be an a issue since my dad would love nothing more than for me to work for his law firm. Please focus your responses on the law schools that I listed and my chances of getting in based on my stats and background. Thank you.

No need to get uppity; you asked for advice and now you're getting it.

But yeah, just what bk said, just go to whatever school is cheapest and work for your dad. Boom.

But if you want to work outside or Miami and/or not for your dad, I'd seriously keep in mind what I said in my last post about miserable job prospects.

[Barbie]

The debt issue is fortunately for me is not going to be an issue and if I stay in Miami job prospects will also not be an a issue since my dad would love nothing more than for me to work for his law firm. Please focus your responses on the law schools that I listed and my chances of getting in based on my stats and background. Thank you.

Apply to Miami and FIU. if Miami doesn't give you any money, go to FIU because its a state school and cheap. They are actually on the rise (they are very new) and decently respected from what I hear down there.

[justadude55]

isn't miami ranked like 62???? they're the only school i know in the 50-80 range. once you drop outta tier 1, i only researched schools with good weather.[/quote]

Miami is mid 60s, but FSU is low 50s (in and out of T1) and UF high 40s...
I was just curious about getting accepted at FSU (which I don't think really takes almost anyone sub 160) but WL at Miami (whos LSAT range is 156-169 or so)[/quote]

169 at miami? maybe this is one of their top students. they start considering full scholarships at 165 according to my knowledge.[/quote]

typeo 159. I'm just saying FSU is considerably more difficult to get accepted to. and it serves right, FSU is better ranked and cheapuh![/quote]

that might be true, but then you can't wear a red checkerboard shirt and tell everybody that you're taking your talents to south beach, which let's be honest, is really what this whole law school application thing is all about.

[justadude55]

The debt issue is fortunately for me is not going to be an issue and if I stay in Miami job prospects will also not be an a issue since my dad would love nothing more than for me to work for his law firm. Please focus your responses on the law schools that I listed and my chances of getting in based on my stats and background. Thank you.

Apply to Miami and FIU. if Miami doesn't give you any money, go to FIU because its a state school and cheap. They are actually on the rise (they are very new) and decently respected from what I hear down there.

you're awfully pro florida. any relation to jed bush?

i would LOVE to live in florida, but my research and lemme know if i'm off, is that because the highest ranked FL law school is in the 40s, outta staters get first picking at the big firms.

[tas817]

From what I have heard FSU is much tougher then U Miami to get into and it is much cheaper, but being from Miami it may be more beneficial to go to UM then FSU if you want to practice in Miami. Considering Miami is the biggest market in the state I would imagine most ppl in FL law schools want to work in Miami. FSU is a better rank school in mid 50's but it does not have a considerable more strength in job placement out state then UM. Unless you go to an Ivy a FL school will most likely be better for big firms in Miami.

[Barbie]

The debt issue is fortunately for me is not going to be an issue and if I stay in Miami job prospects will also not be an a issue since my dad would love nothing more than for me to work for his law firm. Please focus your responses on the law schools that I listed and my chances of getting in based on my stats and background. Thank you.

Apply to Miami and FIU. if Miami doesn't give you any money, go to FIU because its a state school and cheap. They are actually on the rise (they are very new) and decently respected from what I hear down there.

you're awfully pro florida. any relation to jed bush?

i would LOVE to live in florida, but my research and lemme know if i'm off, is that because the highest ranked FL law school is in the 40s, outta staters get first picking at the big firms.

lol what? I'm not really pro-florida, but I live here so I'm applying all around. and not really... Florida firms have a lot of Florida alumni. and FSU and UF alumni, and Miami, LOOOOVE their alma mater schools. So it probably goes down in the FL rankings, with of course elite out of staters in and out. honestly, not too many elite out of staters seem to be around.

[Barbie]

From what I have heard FSU is much tougher then U Miami to get into and it is much cheaper, but being from Miami it may be more beneficial to go to UM then FSU if you want to practice in Miami. Considering Miami is the biggest market in the state I would imagine most ppl in FL law schools want to work in Miami. FSU is a better rank school in mid 50's but it does not have a considerable more strength in job placement out state then UM. Unless you go to an Ivy a FL school will most likely be better for big firms in Miami.

Miami is A big market but definitly isn't the only market. I would rather work in ANY city in Florida than Miami (or nearby south florida areas) hence UM not being of any concern to me. If you wanted to try to breach borders, UF would probably be the most likely (I can see UF maybe carrying into GA and a few other neighboring schools).

[justadude55]

good to know i'll have less competition. i just want a condo on the boardwalk, a blond in one arm, a brunette in the other and the chance to help my fellow Americans.