22 y.o. Single Mom applying to L-school Fall 2011 Forum

[FutureLawyerMama]

Since you're looking to go to law school in the South, aim for the best one--UVA. I know that we are a school that will definitely overlook a low GPA if it's combined with a high LSAT, a good reason for it, and a strong PS. If you can pull a 167 I think you will have a great shot at getting in. Also Charlottesville is probably one of the best places for a single mom to attend law school. It's safe and it isn't a fast paced locale. Also I with you being a single mom, the fact that our LRW is P/F will be particularly helpful (UT, Duke, and Vandy all have graded LRW; in addition to them being less respected in the legal community).

I appreciate the insight. I will be looking into UVA! I'm originally from Kentucky, although I have lived in nyc for the past 4 years. I'm applying to U of KY Law as well, not pysched about going there, but will do if it is one of my best or only options. I figure I should try to get into the best law school that I can that will give me the best educational opps as well as options after grad . Thanks.

[FutureLawyerMama]

I hope this is not inappropriate but nothing is hotter than a single mom kicking ass and going to a top law school

hahahah we shall see!

[firemed]

um.... Liked the metaphor, the bravado.....

you haven't even taken the lsat, right. So when you say, "Someone with a low gpa" are you assuming they have a high lsat. Right now you are around 168 and the average person drops a point or two in the real thing. The people that are making it into top schools with low gpa's are normally in the 170+. So drive this last month home!!!!!

Anyways, I was more responding to the connotation I thought i detected in single mom that you guys had similar chances. Which is why i said dont get his hopes up. Sure you have some good chances especially if you break 170 but if you guys had the same numbers you will not be going to the same law school, most likely.

Okay, touche, you have an excellent point that with similar numbers she will still get into a better law school than me.

And I apologize for misinterpreting what you said.

As for "driving home," LG is my weakness, so I expect to break 170 here in the next week or two.

My metaphor and bravado still stand for the person who said that unless I cured cancer I wasn't going to break top 20, however.

[chingchong]

Random question: Do you know who the baby's daddy is?

If not, I would encourage you to be a guest on the Maury Povich Show (they pay for food and lodging while your waiting for the paternity test results).

[firemed]

Random question: Do you know who the baby's daddy is?

If not, I would encourage you to be a guest on the Maury Povich Show (they pay for food and lodging while your waiting for the paternity test results).

That is either stupid or racist. Which one is it?

[FutureLawyerMama]

Random question: Do you know who the baby's daddy is?

If not, I would encourage you to be a guest on the Maury Povich Show (they pay for food and lodging while your waiting for the paternity test results).

That is either stupid or racist. Which one is it?

It is disgusting that there is sooooo much ignorance in the world. Must be the fact that I'm african american, hmmm he should have asked if I was on welfare and should have double checked that I only had 1 kid instead of 5 at the ripe ol age of 22 and sadly there are people like this wanting to be in the legal profession and already there!

[Pip]

You need to be realistic. A 3.0 in English is probably a stretch even with the URM status unless you can get int he 170s on the LSAT.

What will also come into play will be the shape of your grades... did you get a 3.0 because you really slacked in the first year or was it a steady 3.0 throughout your college years... how many classes were you taking at the end and how were your grades... Those things aren't mentioned.

What you did mention was that you are a single mom, that sounds more like an excuse that you are using for poor grades. I'm not sure if even bringing that up would be of any real value... A reader could also read into that negative things, immature, short-sighted... you name it.

That is not to say you will not be able to get into a law school, you will... but I wouldn't put all my eggs in the schools you mentioned because you aren't even close to being easy in for any one of them... but there are lots of schools that would let you in... BUT remember, a large number of those school are more interested in keeping enrollment up and tuition money going into their bank than they are in providing you a meaningful opportunity to get a better life for yourself. If you go to a lower level school you will still have a very substantial amount of debt when you get out and you will be in a very very competitive market. You are in no way guaranteed to make a bigger salary when you get out than you could make right now in a non-legal job that you might find.

[FutureLawyerMama]

You need to be realistic. A 3.0 in English is probably a stretch even with the URM status unless you can get int he 170s on the LSAT.

What will also come into play will be the shape of your grades... did you get a 3.0 because you really slacked in the first year or was it a steady 3.0 throughout your college years... how many classes were you taking at the end and how were your grades... Those things aren't mentioned.

What you did mention was that you are a single mom, that sounds more like an excuse that you are using for poor grades. I'm not sure if even bringing that up would be of any real value... A reader could also read into that negative things, immature, short-sighted... you name it.

That is not to say you will not be able to get into a law school, you will... but I wouldn't put all my eggs in the schools you mentioned because you aren't even close to being easy in for any one of them... but there are lots of schools that would let you in... BUT remember, a large number of those school are more interested in keeping enrollment up and tuition money going into their bank than they are in providing you a meaningful opportunity to get a better life for yourself. If you go to a lower level school you will still have a very substantial amount of debt when you get out and you will be in a very very competitive market. You are in no way guaranteed to make a bigger salary when you get out than you could make right now in a non-legal job that you might find.

I am being realistic in realizing that breaking top 20/30 isnt an easy thing to do with my numbers. I have never been naive in thinking I can crack Harvard or Yale and actually don't want to. Saying that, I am keeping an open mind in applying to tier 2 schools that I have a great chance of getting into. The 3.0 was actually me slacking in the first couple of semesters of college WAAAAY before I ever had my son. He is not the excuse and if you read, no where in my intro do I ever say that. If that was the case, I wouldnt be applying to law school and might be seeking sympathy somewhere else. From Spring 2009 and on, my GPA was above a 3.0 EVERY semester. I did summer 2009, fall 09, spring 10 and summer 10 with good GPAs, it is the first part of college that was my downfall. Throughout 85% of my college career I took 15 or more credits. The purpose of bringing up the fact that I am a single mother is that I have matured since my freshman days at age 18 and 19, which some people without children and older than me can't even say. So assuming a lifelong responsibility and also pursuing a tough and challenging career says good things about character and nothing of excuses. So putting things into perspective, it is much better to ask than to assume.

[Pip]

A reader could also read into that negative things, immature, short-sighted... you name it.

I am being realistic in realizing that breaking top 20/30 isnt an easy thing to do with my numbers. I have never been naive in thinking I can crack Harvard or Yale and actually don't want to. Saying that, I am keeping an open mind in applying to tier 2 schools that I have a great chance of getting into. The 3.0 was actually me slacking in the first couple of semesters of college WAAAAY before I ever had my son. He is not the excuse and if you read, no where in my intro do I ever say that. If that was the case, I wouldnt be applying to law school and might be seeking sympathy somewhere else. From Spring 2009 and on, my GPA was above a 3.0 EVERY semester. I did summer 2009, fall 09, spring 10 and summer 10 with good GPAs, it is the first part of college that was my downfall. Throughout 85% of my college career I took 15 or more credits. The purpose of bringing up the fact that I am a single mother is that I have matured since my freshman days at age 18 and 19, which some people without children and older than me can't even say. So assuming a lifelong responsibility and also pursuing a tough and challenging career says good things about character and nothing of excuses. So putting things into perspective, it is much better to ask than to assume.

It is also better to read what is written than what you think is written. I was very clear in stating that a reader COULD read negative things into your being a single mother... I never said I believed them nor accused you of them. You appear to have read something into what wasn't actually there... and that is exactly what many readers of your application will do.... If you bring up the fact that you are a single mother and AA you will get a lot of people assuming negative things about you when they read the application. So again, I would strongly suggest you don't even put the single mom on any application, it isn't going to get you a boost while the AA will get you a boost.

[dextermorgan]

Single mom, URM, you can get T14 with a decent LSAT.

[firemed]

It is also better to read what is written than what you think is written. I was very clear in stating that a reader COULD read negative things into your being a single mother... I never said I believed them nor accused you of them. You appear to have read something into what wasn't actually there... and that is exactly what many readers of your application will do.... If you bring up the fact that you are a single mother and AA you will get a lot of people assuming negative things about you when they read the application. So again, I would strongly suggest you don't even put the single mom on any application, it isn't going to get you a boost while the AA will get you a boost.

Couldn't disagree with you more dude/dudette... I think that an application that says that this applicant is a URM and has overcome adversity in the form of being a single mother while maintaining a very high GPA her last year is WAAAY more advantageous than one that leaves out how rocking she is by doing so.

It is all about how you present the facts. Remind me not to hire you for my defense if I ever screw up bad enough to need it.

I am guessing that you assumed negative things (repeat after me class "stereotype... can you say stereotype?") because of your beliefs. I (and hopefully adcomms) heard that someone cool wants to be a lawyer. Even if some of the adcomms might hold those stereotypes in their head, I think two things will work against that: they value diversity on paper at least, and for those adcomms who aren't blinded by prejudicial notions they will look at this as a plus, balancing out with advantages at most institutions in return for harm at a few.

[whymeohgodno]

Single mom, URM, you can get T14 with a decent LSAT.

[re-applicant]

I hope this doesn't come off as presumptuous, but I am actually curious: how do you plan to balance law school, and then life as a lawyer, with being a single mom raising a young child? I'm rooting for you, but I couldn't possibly imagine going down the path that I'm going if I had your responsibilities.

[ShuckingNotJiving]

What you did mention was that you are a single mom, that sounds more like an excuse that you are using for poor grades. I'm not sure if even bringing that up would be of any real value... A reader could also read into that negative things, immature, short-sighted... you name it.

No and no. Adcomms will not read negative things into being a single mother. Yes, I know you said "could," I'm saying "will not." Everyone has been immature and short-sighted at one point in their lives. That goes without saying. Character is revealed when one gains insight from whatever mistakes immaturity/short-sightedness has spurred. Moreover, the adcomms will realize that being a single mother has to do with other factors (socio-economic, and oh yeah! being female), that are often times outside of many young mothers' control. They wouldn't be considering the immaturity of her past, they would be considering the manner in which she presents herself now. And, for what it's worth, taking care of a child at such a young age speaks for maturity beyond the years that the OP has.

If you bring up the fact that you are a single mother and AA you will get a lot of people assuming negative things about you when they read the application

This is just one of those thoughts that so wrong that I don't even have the time / energy to break down how wrong it is. If you are assuming negative things, then say, "I'm assuming negative things." Don't speak for an unspecified body of "people," to convey your thoughts.

OP, I hope this nonsense hasn't deterred you.

Finally:

I hope this is not inappropriate but nothing is hotter than a single mom kicking ass and going to a top law school

[paratactical]

FYI, Pip is a nasty troll that goes around in threads giving out heinously awful advice.

[whymeohgodno]

What you did mention was that you are a single mom, that sounds more like an excuse that you are using for poor grades. I'm not sure if even bringing that up would be of any real value... A reader could also read into that negative things, immature, short-sighted... you name it.

No and no. Adcomms will not read negative things into being a single mother. Yes, I know you said "could," I'm saying "will not." Everyone has been immature and short-sighted at one point in their lives. That goes without saying. Character is revealed when one gains insight from whatever mistakes immaturity/short-sightedness has spurred. Moreover, the adcomms will realize that being a single mother has to do with other factors (socio-economic, and oh yeah! being female), that are often times outside of many young mothers' control. They wouldn't be considering the immaturity of her past, they would be considering the manner in which she presents herself now. And, for what it's worth, taking care of a child at such a young age speaks for maturity beyond the years that the OP has.

If you bring up the fact that you are a single mother and AA you will get a lot of people assuming negative things about you when they read the application

This is just one of those thoughts that so wrong that I don't even have the time / energy to break down how wrong it is. If you are assuming negative things, then say, "I'm assuming negative things." Don't speak for an unspecified body of "people," to convey your thoughts.

OP, I hope this nonsense hasn't deterred you.

Finally:

I hope this is not inappropriate but nothing is hotter than a single mom kicking ass and going to a top law school

I agree with most of what you said but the bolded part made me lol so hard.

Since when is getting pregnant and having a child "often times" out of someone's control.

Unless you were raped or were one of those very few people who got pregnant even while using birth control, there really isn't a legitimate excuse.

Having a child isn't some rite of immaturity that everyone or even most people go through. And it certainly doesn't happen "often" in circumstances where it is out of someone's control.

You may take offense to pip and his stereotyping but please. Get a grip on your responses.

[dresden doll]

I agree with most of what you said but the bolded part made me lol so hard.

Since when is getting pregnant and having a child "often times" out of someone's control.

Unless you were raped or were one of those very few people who got pregnant even while using birth control, there really isn't a legitimate excuse.

Having a child isn't some rite of immaturity that everyone or even most people go through. And it certainly doesn't happen "often" in circumstances where it is out of someone's control.

You may take offense to pip and his stereotyping but please. Get a grip on your responses.

I believe that bolded statement meant to indicate that certain socioeconomic factors at times help drive a person to make choices that lead to them becoming single mothers.

Anyway, this thread is full of fail. Being a single mother is neither a badge of honor nor a scarlet letter. OP needs to focus on LSAT, then come back for more advice once she's broken the 170 barrier.

[whymeohgodno]

I agree with most of what you said but the bolded part made me lol so hard.

Since when is getting pregnant and having a child "often times" out of someone's control.

Unless you were raped or were one of those very few people who got pregnant even while using birth control, there really isn't a legitimate excuse.

Having a child isn't some rite of immaturity that everyone or even most people go through. And it certainly doesn't happen "often" in circumstances where it is out of someone's control.

You may take offense to pip and his stereotyping but please. Get a grip on your responses.

I believe that bolded statement meant to indicate that certain socioeconomic factors at times help drive a person to make choices that lead to them becoming single mothers.

Anyway, this thread is full of fail. Being a single mother is neither a badge of honor nor a scarlet letter. OP needs to focus on LSAT, then come back for more advice once she's broken the 170 barrier.

The posters word choice doesn't reflect that at all. I mean what else is someone supposed to infer from someone saying often times it's out of someone's control.

Out of someone's control?!?!? PLEASE.

It's pathetic when people make completely ridiculous excuses.

[ShuckingNotJiving]

Didn't say getting pregnant is outside of someone's control.

I said that becoming a young mother often times is. How? Well, men can't get pregnant, so they don't have to worry about the stigma that comes with it. And a lot of times poorer women lack access to birth control, or live in communities where getting an abortion isn't as common. Teenage girls get pregnant in wealthier / poorer communities at the same rate. Part of this has to do with the universality of making immature, short-sighted decisions. However, they actually have children at are far less rate in wealthy communities. There are reasons for this, to be sure, but I'm sure you could read up on that.

If my word choice didn't indicate what I meant, then dresdendoll wouldn't have understood what you failed to. You lol'ed because you didn't get it, and perhaps never will.

Having a child isn't some rite of immaturity that everyone or even most people go through. And it certainly doesn't happen "often" in circumstances where it is out of someone's control

Rite of passage is a general term. Different people have different rites of passage, different paths that bridge their immature past with their mature present. These might be stimulated by some event. You might get arrested, get an MIP, rob a liquor store, get a 2.5 GPA one semester, or you might get pregnant. Your rite of passage is determined on your circumstance. You can't make a judgment on ones versus another.

Unless you were raped or were one of those very few people who got pregnant even while using birth control, there really isn't a legitimate excuse.

This is your judgment. Who says there needs to be an "excuse" to have a child? Who's to say that the OP didn't make the choice to have her child? You don't understand this issue, obviously, so I would suggest you stop commenting on it.

I'm definitely not saying getting pregnant is a badge of honor. But it doesn't condemn one to forever being considered immature and short-sighted.

I just didn't want the OP to be discouraged by someone being a misinformed ass****.

[whymeohgodno]

Didn't say getting pregnant is outside of someone's control.

I said that becoming a young mother often times is. How? Well, men can't get pregnant, so they don't have to worry about the stigma that comes with it. And a lot of times poorer women lack access to birth control, or live in communities where getting an abortion isn't as common. Teenage girls get pregnant in wealthier / poorer communities at the same rate. Part of this has to do with the universality of making immature, short-sighted decisions. However, they actually have children at are far less rate in wealthy communities. There are reasons for this, to be sure, but I'm sure you could read up on that.

If my word choice didn't indicate what I meant, then dresdendoll wouldn't have understood what you failed to. You lol'ed because you didn't get it, and perhaps never will.

Having a child isn't some rite of immaturity that everyone or even most people go through. And it certainly doesn't happen "often" in circumstances where it is out of someone's control

Rite of passage is a general term. Different people have different rites of passage, different paths that bridge their immature past with their mature present. These might be stimulated by some event. You might get arrested, get an MIP, rob a liquor store, get a 2.5 GPA one semester, or you might get pregnant. Your rite of passage is determined on your circumstance. You can't make a judgment on ones versus another.

Unless you were raped or were one of those very few people who got pregnant even while using birth control, there really isn't a legitimate excuse.

This is your judgment. Who says there needs to be an "excuse" to have a child? Who's to say that the OP didn't make the choice to have her child? You don't understand this issue, obviously, so I would suggest you stop commenting on it.

I'm definitely not saying getting pregnant is a badge of honor. But it doesn't condemn one to forever being considered immature and short-sighted.

I just didn't want the OP to be discouraged by someone being a misinformed ass****.

No they don't. I didn't even have to read your entire post to find a flaw.

Please come back when you stop making up information and actually know what you are talking about.

Also, I never condemned anyone to being forever considered immature and short-sighted.

But that doesn't mean that getting pregnant at an early age and becoming a single mother is something that should just be excused as something that was inevitable or something that was out of someone's control just because they grew up in a poorer neighborhood.

[ShuckingNotJiving]

Yeah, you're right obviously. Oops!

EDIT (couldn't just let this go):


But, if you're implying that women get pregnant at different rates based on circumstance -- then you've proved my point that adcomms realize that getting pregnant is often related to circumstances outside the girl / woman's control.

The end.

And, I was quoting Pip when I mentioned "immaturity" and "short-sightedness." Reading is succeeding.


OP - study hard and kill it on test day.

[FutureLawyerMama]

Dios mio. This thread has gotten outta control. To all those in general who had a combination of negative/ignorant comments to make: about being a single mother, guess what? I wasn't single when I got pregnant or even immediately AFTER my son's birth. The choice was mine to better my life by removing negative people from around us (i.e. his father). Also, socioeconomic situation had nothing to do with this...not all African Americans are broke or lack the education to understand how babies are made. I weighed my options and decided to not give my child up for adoption or to have an abortion. This is a decision I am thankful for everyday. There are alot of us "black folk" (surpise ) who are middle class and successful...but the personal details of my situation will be addressed to the admissions department of my prospective colleges.
And wow, people act like having a child is the most difficult situation imaginable. It IS possible to do things with children. It's about scheduling and time management. I plan to make it through l-school the same way i made it through the last year of undergrad, study hard, bust my @$$, manage my time and succeed. Only this time, I will have my family nearby to really give me a hand. It can be done people, it's all about how bad you want something and what you are willing to sacrifice to attain it.

now that I have exhaled...back to LSAT study

[firemed]

But that doesn't mean that getting pregnant at an early age and becoming a single mother is something that should just be excused as something that was inevitable or something that was out of someone's control just because they grew up in a poorer neighborhood.

You word choices are interesting...

Why does it even need to be excused? Are we stuck in the 50s where a being a single mother carries stigmata? It is not like she committed a crime or got bad grades. She made a choice that effects her life. There are a lot of reasons she could have chosen to become pregnant that later didn't work out. Sounds like OP falls into that category, as opposed to an "oooooops" moment, which quite frankly is how I got myself a daughter... and that doesn't need to be excused either.

Using the word excuse indicates that she did something wrong.

So, Whyme... here is what I advise you to do: wait, and someday you might have a kid under similar circumstances, either with someone who didn't work out for you, or with a giant oops moment... and then you will understand it is not something to be excused, but rather a part of your life that carries with it huge burdens as well as huge joys, that is not a mistake but rather a coherent part of the tapestry of your existence. Peace.

[haus]

I hope this doesn't come off as presumptuous, but I am actually curious: how do you plan to balance law school, and then life as a lawyer, with being a single mom raising a young child? I'm rooting for you, but I couldn't possibly imagine going down the path that I'm going if I had your responsibilities.

Nearly any job that will provide a good life for someone and their family will produce challenges that need to be overcome. Opting to avoid law school, and a later career as a lawyer does not make these challenges go away.

Being an old geyser by the forums standards (late 30's), I know a bit about the problems of balancing work and life. I would argue that my current career (Information Security) more demanding then what most lawyers deal with. I work long hours, I am always on call, frequently I will need to work weekends and holidays, and there is a continuous need for additional education that is almost always done on my own time. Over the years I have learned that no field has a monopoly on hard work or difficult hours, and that part of the job of being a parent is finding way to persevere through the challenges to make a good life for your family.

[FutureLawyerMama]

Well said Haus...well said.

I hope this doesn't come off as presumptuous, but I am actually curious: how do you plan to balance law school, and then life as a lawyer, with being a single mom raising a young child? I'm rooting for you, but I couldn't possibly imagine going down the path that I'm going if I had your responsibilities.

Nearly any job that will provide a good life for someone and their family will produce challenges that need to be overcome. Opting to avoid law school, and a later career as a lawyer does not make these challenges go away.

Being an old geyser by the forums standards (late 30's), I know a bit about the problems of balancing work and life. I would argue that my current career (Information Security) more demanding then what most lawyers deal with. I work long hours, I am always on call, frequently I will need to work weekends and holidays, and there is a continuous need for additional education that is almost always done on my own time. Over the years I have learned that no field has a monopoly on hard work or difficult hours, and that part of the job of being a parent is finding way to persevere through the challenges to make a good life for your family.