3.0/172 - Forum

[bk1]

Looking at LSN, it seems grim.

Also via LSN, you might have a better shot ED'ing at UMich than UCLA which also places well in CA.

I'd say look at lawschoolnumbers.com and see how well people with similar numbers to yours did and then take it from there factoring in your school preferences (based on LSN I would roughly say your chances are V > M > UCLA).

[Gleason]

Yeah, it definitely looks grim for Regular Admission. From the very small amount of data of ED, though, it looks somewhat cheerier.
For the sake of easing my uncertainty, do you have anything to shoot down this thought from before:

LSN gave me *some* hope for a UCLA ED. Everyone with a LSAT over 75% at least got waitlisted. The data is pretty scarce, though. The only person with a split as extreme as mine had a 180. [Except the guy below] Someone argued on a different thread that UCLA is more splitter-friendly with EDs because the reason they are so GPA-centric is that schools in the lower T14 are LSAT-centric. Since people are likely to choose those schools over UCLA, they are protecting their yield rate and going after the high-caliber students those schools would be more likely to reject. So with an ED, they don't have to worry about me taking M or V over them. I have no idea if this is right, but it struck me as very plausible.


Also, it looks like this guy did ED to UCLA, then UVA:

http://lawschoolnumbers.com/aznflyingpanda

Unfortunately, I don't get to see the outcome of his UCLA WL.

[bk1]

If you get WL'ed at UCLA, I doubt it would be because of YP.

[Gleason]

If you get WL'ed at UCLA, I doubt it would be because of YP.

What's "YP?"

[bk1]

YP = Yield Protection

[Gleason]

YP = Yield Protection

Oh, yeah. Of course it's not that I would be WLed because of YP, but that I have a worse shot at UCLA RD than higher ranked schools because of YP, which would be removed the equation in the case of ED. As a result, it might be argued, I'd have about the same shot as those higher ranked schools.

This is probably what you meant, but just to be sure. So why is this not plausible? I can't figure why else UCLA is so GPA-centric compared to others.

[bk1]

Oh, yeah. Of course it's not that I would be WLed because of YP, but that I have a worse shot at UCLA RD than higher ranked schools because of YP, which would be removed the equation in the case of ED. As a result, it might be argued, I'd have about the same shot as those higher ranked schools.

This is probably what you meant, but just to be sure. So why is this not plausible? I can't figure why else UCLA is so GPA-centric compared to others.

Not sure. Why is any school more GPA-centric than others? (i.e. SLS, Cal, etc)

AdComms are people too, and as much as they pander to USNWR rankings, they have their own opinions on what makes successful students who will do well and get good jobs to make their school look good (like the Berkeley AdComm saying something along the lines that he felt UGPA was a much stronger indicator of success in law school due to the LSAT being able to be taken multiple times, or something along those lines, I could easily be misrepresenting the quote).

[Gleason]

Oh, yeah. Of course it's not that I would be WLed because of YP, but that I have a worse shot at UCLA RD than higher ranked schools because of YP, which would be removed the equation in the case of ED. As a result, it might be argued, I'd have about the same shot as those higher ranked schools.

This is probably what you meant, but just to be sure. So why is this not plausible? I can't figure why else UCLA is so GPA-centric compared to others.

Not sure. Why is any school more GPA-centric than others? (i.e. SLS, Cal, etc)

AdComms are people too, and as much as they pander to USNWR rankings, they have their own opinions on what makes successful students who will do well and get good jobs to make their school look good (like the Berkeley AdComm saying something along the lines that he felt UGPA was a much stronger indicator of success in law school due to the LSAT being able to be taken multiple times, or something along those lines, I could easily be misrepresenting the quote).

Yeah, fair enough. I guess that just leaves the LSN stats, then, which are far too incomplete to make any decision from anyways even if they do offer a little piece of temptation.

I'll just look into how quickly UCLA tends to get back to early ED submissions, and see how the next cycle looks with UCLA's new dean. The default plan though looks like ED UVA unless I find anything terribly optimistic from that.

[im_blue]

Without any local ties to CA (born there, grew up there, went to school there, family or SO there), it's going to be difficult to find a job from UVA, especially ITE (in this economy). Given that you have no interest in backup markets, you should choose UCLA ED over UVA ED.

[Gleason]

Without any local ties to CA (born there, grew up there, went to school there, family or SO there), it's going to be difficult to find a job from UVA, especially ITE (in this economy). Given that you have no interest in backup markets, you should choose UCLA ED over UVA ED.

If I had an equal shot at them, I definitely would.

What makes you say that it would be hard to find a job in CA from UVA? From what I've read, here and elsewhere, UVA seems to have an especially good reputation for CA placement among non-CA schools.

[im_blue]

Without any local ties to CA (born there, grew up there, went to school there, family or SO there), it's going to be difficult to find a job from UVA, especially ITE (in this economy). Given that you have no interest in backup markets, you should choose UCLA ED over UVA ED.

If I had an equal shot at them, I definitely would.

What makes you say that it would be hard to find a job in CA from UVA? From what I've read, here and elsewhere, UVA seems to have an especially good reputation for CA placement among non-CA schools.

That's certainly true, but only for people with local ties to CA. You won't find too many students on TLS who went to non-CA schools yet are dead set on working in CA. Firms are suspicious of people who haven't lived in CA because they're flight risks. Also, how can they tell whether you're applying to CA firms just because you couldn't land a job in NYC or DC?

[plum]

.

[Gleason]

Without any local ties to CA (born there, grew up there, went to school there, family or SO there), it's going to be difficult to find a job from UVA, especially ITE (in this economy). Given that you have no interest in backup markets, you should choose UCLA ED over UVA ED.

If I had an equal shot at them, I definitely would.

What makes you say that it would be hard to find a job in CA from UVA? From what I've read, here and elsewhere, UVA seems to have an especially good reputation for CA placement among non-CA schools.

That's certainly true, but only for people with local ties to CA. You won't find too many students on TLS who went to non-CA schools yet are dead set on working in CA. Firms are suspicious of people who haven't lived in CA because they're flight risks. Also, how can they tell whether you're applying to CA firms just because you couldn't land a job in NYC or DC?

Well that's certainly a problem if that's the case. I have no interest in DC or NYC. Why isn't this the case for those cities, anyway? Why don't they worry youre a flight risk?

Is there a way to prevent this at all by working there in the summers (especially after 1L) or contacting firms ahead of time or moving to CA and then looking for jobs?

[pattymac]

A degree from canada= not as relevant?

Be the best news I've heard all week. I've got a 2.6 from a Canadian school. To put it into perspective, a 3.3 would put me in the top 10 in my class. Not 10%, top 10. Class of 180+, 2 people > 3.5.

[tryster0]

Will UVA and UCLA let you apply ED to other schools once you've been rejected by the other? In other words, they're not like Northwestern, right?

[Gleason]

Will UVA and UCLA let you apply ED to other schools once you've been rejected by the other? In other words, they're not like Northwestern, right?

From what I understand from this thread, yes. I could do this. UCLA's website says this though:

early decision applicants are committed to UCLA School of Law and will not apply to any other law school early decision program in the same admissions cycle.

So I'm not sure. I would think I could do UCLA then UVA, but going UVA then UCLA could be risky if UCLA were to find out.

[tryster0]

Are you willing to risk it? I ask because I might end up doing the exact same thing. That is, UVA ED first, then UCLA ED if no go on UVA. BUt the language on UCLA's site sounds hauntingly similar to NU so now I'm not so sure. How would they find out and what would happened if they did?

[Gleason]

Are you willing to risk it? I ask because I might end up doing the exact same thing. That is, UVA ED first, then UCLA ED if no go on UVA. BUt the language on UCLA's site sounds hauntingly similar to NU so now I'm not so sure. How would they find out and what would happened if they did?

From my limited understanding, they would find out by UVA notifying UCLA. I don't know the process by which this happens, but I know it's happened in situations where the person has been accepted to the ED school. So there is definitely some process for it.
My guess is that UCLA might reject you because of it. It probably depends how badly you want it, but I'm guessing youre borderline at UCLA, so you'd probably get rejected if they found out. Depending on your numbers, I wouldnt risk it. The more I'm reading, the more I think it's a bad idea. If I were to do the two EDs, I'd do UCLA then UVA. Otherwise I'd just to UCLA RD unless you find out that UVA won't be notifying UCLA..

[bk1]

Email the schools and specifically ask about it. Michigan and GULC told me it was okay, NU specifically said no. I'm still waiting to hear from others.

[Gleason]

Email the schools and specifically ask about it. Michigan and GULC told me it was okay, NU specifically said no. I'm still waiting to hear from others.

Thanks BK. Keep us updated on what you find out from those, if you don't mind.
Do you have any concern that they will view your ED app in a more negative light if they match the email to the application?

[bk1]

Email the schools and specifically ask about it. Michigan and GULC told me it was okay, NU specifically said no. I'm still waiting to hear from others.

Thanks BK. Keep us updated on what you find out from those, if you don't mind.
Do you have any concern that they will view your ED app in a more negative light if they match the email to the application?

I doubt they will. Even if they did, I don't think it would hurt me that much.

[Gleason]

Email the schools and specifically ask about it. Michigan and GULC told me it was okay, NU specifically said no. I'm still waiting to hear from others.

Thanks BK. Keep us updated on what you find out from those, if you don't mind.
Do you have any concern that they will view your ED app in a more negative light if they match the email to the application?

I doubt they will. Even if they did, I don't think it would hurt me that much.

Cool. Well let me know what you find out. I'm definitely waiting to apply until next cycle, so I'll contact UCLA then once I'm clearer on what I want to do given all this new information.

I'll be in Cali again between now and then, so maybe I'll try to meet with the dean. I'm sure it can't hurt to talk face to face.

Thanks again for your thoughts here. Cali is a tough place for me.
Worse comes to worse, I'm sure Oregon is easier to tap into from out of the region since they don't have any very good feeder schools.

[FlanAl]

Just wondering why California? Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and a whole bunch of other states could really benefit from someone doing public interest and immigration and having those as back ups could really open up your options. If you speak spanish and are dead set on doing public interest immigration stuff and you only want to be in California then lower ranked California schools shouldn't be out of the question. I mean if you are planning on getting loans etc. and then living in Cali on a public defender salary you are going to be hurting.

SOrry if that seemed impolite I'm just wondering about the strong Cali connection.

PS is SC really not an option with his stats?

[bk1]

Just wondering why California? Arizona, New Mexico, Texas and a whole bunch of other states could really benefit from someone doing public interest and immigration and having those as back ups could really open up your options. If you speak spanish and are dead set on doing public interest immigration stuff and you only want to be in California then lower ranked California schools shouldn't be out of the question. I mean if you are planning on getting loans etc. and then living in Cali on a public defender salary you are going to be hurting.

SOrry if that seemed impolite I'm just wondering about the strong Cali connection.

PS is SC really not an option with his stats?

...

[FlanAl]

Sorry just thought I'd throw it out there if he's only ever spent two months in California and he's interested in a career that is going to pay loans/just living extremely difficult I don't know if t-14/UCLA or bust is the only message he should be getting.

my bad