173/2.8/URM - Where to ED? Forum

[bk1]

As an anecdote: My buddy had a 2.8 and a 170 LSAT though he wasn't a URM he had better softs then yours and he got WL or Rejected at all the T1 schools he applied. Though this correlates imperfectly with your situation I'd be worried with a sub 3 GPA and probably take the safer bet.

Fair enough, though I feel that being above median (and often the 75th) is a drastic difference for my case.

[Kswizzie]

As an anecdote: My buddy had a 2.8 and a 170 LSAT though he wasn't a URM he had better softs then yours and he got WL or Rejected at all the T1 schools he applied. Though this correlates imperfectly with your situation I'd be worried with a sub 3 GPA and probably take the safer bet.

Fair enough, though I feel that being above median (and often the 75th) is a drastic difference for my case.

To clarify a 170 was above the 75th for all schools he applied to... I was specifically pointing to the five schools he applied to in the 20-50 range. But I don't think you should go by this experience as it does correlate with you only imperfectly. I just think I would go with Mich if I were in your shoes.

[vanwinkle]

You're out at HYS. I'm sorry about this, it's just the facts. URM boosts are typically about poor LSAT performance, and HYS can find enough URMs with above-3.0 GPAs to not take you and still get their fill. For the same reason, I suspect you'll probably get dinged at Columbia RD; if you really want to go there, I would highly recommend EDing and a healthy dose of prayer.

Also, Berkeley will not take a sub-3.0 student, period.

You'll probably do okay at several lower T14 schools (NYU on down), possibly even getting some $$$ at one or two schools, so I wouldn't ED there. That high LSAT + URM status will mean acceptances, as long as you do your apps properly and hopefully have some kind of explanation for the low GPA.

You should also consider at least a year or two of work experience before applying, if you can manage it. That'll dramatically increase your odds of admission success as well as give you a better foundation for your law school career (all the people I know that've done well in law school had some kind of post-UG work experience). The best thing you can do to separate yourself from that low GPA is at least some time spent working in the real world. It'll help round you out as an applicant and convince the adcomms you could've developed some maturity and discipline since then, and also actually help you develop some useful maturity and discipline. The longer you work after graduating the better your cycle will be, I guarantee it.

But if working that long isn't an option, if you're really eager to go now, I'd consider EDing first to CLS and then UVA if CLS rejects you (UVA accepts ED apps until March, you'll be able to switch from RD to ED after you get rejected by CLS if you do).

Good luck!

[bk1]

@vanwinkle: Thanks for the writeup. Yeah I know HYS/B are out, with slim to none at CCN.

CLS is a dream and I would definitely choose it over NYU, but I would rather not ED if ED'ing there doesn't have much of a chance. I feel NYU is a much better bet than CLS considering I am at NYU's 75th LSAT (169-171-173) whereas I am below CLS's 75th though still above their median (170-171-175). Do you really think in this instance that ED'ing to CLS instead of NYU is a reasonable call?

Honestly I wish I had the patience to wait a few years and gain work experience, but I do not think I have it in me to do that as I am already a reapplicant. I have already graduated and am working the year+ between UG and law school. While waiting another year or two may give me a better shot, at this point I do not feel that the gains outweigh the personal cost of waiting a year (I would rather attend a lower T14 in 2011 than wait till 2012 for a slight increase in my chances at a T6). Having applied this year, I felt waiting a year was worth it to go from a low T1 to a good shot at the T14 so I am reapplying. I just don't see another year as worth it for me, but I do appreciate that advice.

[drake]

Any reason why you aren't considering Penn?

[vanwinkle]

Any reason why you aren't considering Penn?

Penn is another good one. With a GPA that low, app strategy will require blanketing the entire lower T14 and seeing what sticks.

[bk1]

As for the Penn comment, I am blanketing the T14 outside of HYS (gonna shoot an app to H for shits and giggles) and most strong regional schools. I am considering Penn and would be glad to attend, but as it is a peer school to M and V, I would prefer both of those schools to P if I got into them.

My reasoning is basically that I feel M and V are likely to give me a better shot at SF than P (which seems to focus more on NY), but I am willing to sacrifice my chances at SF to go to some place like NYU because of the better shot at biglaw compared to MVP. If biglaw placement is equal, then I would prefer a better shot at SF (due to M and V seeming to cast wider nets).

[legalease9]

TL,DR BUT...

ED to Northwestern. Apply to all the other schools you want to go to. It would suck if you got into a more appealing school than NW and had to go to NW anyway, but given your GPA, I stick with Northwestern ED.

[vanwinkle]

As for the Penn comment, I am blanketing the T14 outside of HYS (gonna shoot an app to H for shits and giggles) and most strong regional schools.

This is essentially what I did, though I didn't apply to Michigan or Cornell and probably should have. It still worked out for me in the end, though; I got into one T14, and was very happy to go there. I'd still advocate paying the $85 to apply to H, just for the sake of doing so (and because, who knows, maybe persistence is a factor in them deciding to take you as a transfer).

[clintonius]

TL,DR BUT...

ED to Northwestern. Apply to all the other schools you want to go to. It would suck if you got into a more appealing school than NW and had to go to NW anyway, but given your GPA, I stick with Northwestern ED.

This is when not reading gets you into trouble -- s/he has little to no work experience and is URM. The latter, especially, makes things complicated.

OP, I am at a loss here. If you have ties to SF I don't see you getting locked out of that market from NYU (I know somebody who just graduated from NYU and got a job in the SF office of a CA firm. She grew up in the bay area). I've also been told by people who claim to be "insiders" that NYU has a great reach in CA, so the self-selection vs. regional school argument comes into play for there. FWIW, I have decided on NYU at sticker because I think it offers me a good chance of getting a job in Biglaw and paying off my loans, and they also have a great public interest network if I want to go the LRAP route. And I'd love to see you there. But this is a complicated decision. Best of luck to you.

[vanwinkle]

TL,DR BUT...

ED to Northwestern. Apply to all the other schools you want to go to. It would suck if you got into a more appealing school than NW and had to go to NW anyway, but given your GPA, I stick with Northwestern ED.

This is when not reading gets you into trouble -- s/he has little to no work experience and is URM. The latter, especially, makes things complicated.

OP, I am at a loss here. If you have ties to SF I don't see you getting locked out of that market from NYU (I know somebody who just graduated from NYU and got a job in the SF office of a CA firm. She grew up in the bay area). I've also been told by people who claim to be "insiders" that NYU has a great reach in CA, so the self-selection vs. regional school argument comes into play for there. FWIW, I have decided on NYU at sticker because I think it offers me a good chance of getting a job in Biglaw and paying off my loans, and they also have a great public interest network if I want to go the LRAP route. And I'd love to see you there. But this is a complicated decision. Best of luck to you.

TITCR. EDing to NU is not the right move for you, and with existing ties to SF you should be able to go back there with a degree from any T14.

[romothesavior]

Also, EDing to NU eliminates the ability to ED to UVA because NU's ED limits you to one ED. There is specific language barring you from applying ED elsewhere.

Also, bk... Didn't I tell ya vanwinkle was the man to go to?

[bk1]

You were right Romo, thanks for the heads up!

I think I am going to send it to NYU, once I make sure I can send my second to UVa (emailed NYU the other day, but haven't heard back yet). Vanwinkle's idea for CLS intrigued me, but due to LSAT being at NYU's 75th and between CLS's 50th and 75th, I feel more confident with NYU (despite the fact that going to CLS would be an insane dream though I would love NYU as well).

Thanks to all who responded and voted, I really appreciate it, time to finish up those apps and maybe start doing favors for adcomms.