Stanford ASW 2012 Forum

[yankees42789]

In Palo Alto and just took a quick peek around the law school (amazing, of course). So excited for the next few days!

[Geneva]

I love Stanford so far. It seems that a couple people here are deciding between Stanford and Yale, which I find interesting. For so many people on TLS, it seems like Yale is a no-brainer. It makes me feel good to think that people would turn down the #1 law school in the country to go to SLS (okay, the #2 law school in the country, but you guys know what I mean). Part of me wants to withdraw my other applications and commit to Stanford on Monday (if all continues to go well).

[Twit]

Hey guys -- about to come over the HLS v. SLS hill and am about ready to deposit. I loved Stanford when I visited in March, but it was during finals, so I'm curious to hear about ASW. Please post!

[Kimberly]

Hey all- I am DYING to hear how the weekend was! I already submitted my deposit last week- after I visited last weekend... But, super jealous I missed out on the preview of all wonderful things to come!! Let me live vicariously...

[soj]

I'm a little busy catching up with work, so I'll probably post my thoughts a little later. I had a really great time! Curious how others felt.

[yankees42789]

I'm a little busy catching up with work, so I'll probably post my thoughts a little later. I had a really great time! Curious how others felt.

Loved ASW, as well and really think Stanford is an amazing place. Unfortunately, I'm even more confused/torn now than I was before and am starting to enter panic mode with about a week left to make up my mind. I'll try and get more coherent/detailed thoughts up later, but for now my mind is still spinning.

[Dani.B]

I'm also a little busy catching up but I loved ASW! and sent in my deposit yesterday.

Will go into details later but I had to mention the best thing about ASW was how friendly everyone was, and I'm not talking about the current students but the admits! I met so many nice people and I hope most of you decide to join me at Stanford next year.

[Geneva]

I'm also a little busy catching up but I loved ASW! and sent in my deposit yesterday.

Will go into details later but I had to mention the best thing about ASW was how friendly everyone was, and I'm not talking about the current students but the admits! I met so many nice people and I hope most of you decide to join me at Stanford next year.

I feel the same! I'm actually almost glad that I was waitlisted at Yale, because this means that I don't have to agonize over my decision. I haven't heard a peep from Harvard since I was held, and that is probably for the best. I am almost sure I will be happier at SLS.

[soj]

Way late, but I'll briefly share my thoughts.

I'm very skeptical of "special snowflake" schools claiming a monopoly on collegiality and interdisciplinarity. I go to ASWs with low expectations and a lot of skepticism, and for the most part, schools I visit don't make strong impressions on me. I went to Stanford expecting the same, but I was really pleasantly surprised.

My favorite part of ASWs is making new friends from current and admitted students. I connected with a lot more people here than at any other ASW. The extra length of Stanford's ASW helped, but Stanford has an atmosphere of friendliness I haven't experienced at the ASWs at some of the top east coast schools. It's hard to describe the difference, but Stanford students (admitted students and especially current students) seem more laid back in the sense that they're less concerned about positioning themselves for the most competitive or prestigious jobs. Obviously many people will still apply for and get these positions, but the lack of neuroticism and competition over them made things so much more pleasant, especially for people who aren't interested in these positions. At other schools, almost every student expressed skepticism about working collaboratively because studying is ultimately an individual endeavor. I don't doubt that this is true, but it doesn't seem to have stopped Stanford students, who all seem to know each other socially and academically and who seem to share notes and create outlines together without thinking twice. Collaboration is the default unless you choose to go at it alone--not the other way around.

Talking to admitted students leaning toward other schools is always a little awkward. I've been in that position before, and I'm not entirely sold on Stanford, either, so I understand what it's like. I enjoyed talking to people still trying to decide, but I have to admit they're not as fun to talk to as people who are 100% committed. When you're committed, you put yourself out there a little more and act more social. I'm sure if these undecided people end up choosing Stanford and I do too, I'll find them just as amiable and sociable as the others.

Dessert at faculty homes was one of my favorite events. My professor was super nice and easy to talk to. It was nice to get the faculty perspective on a lot of the issues admitted students are thinking about. My other favorite event was the small group dinner with current students. My group was super chill and talked about mostly things unrelated to law school. It was nice to get to know current students and other admitted students without stressing about law school decisions.

The law school buildings are amazing. Everything is basically brand new, and the classroom building gets a ton of natural lighting. I'm usually not that picky about this sort of thing, but even I had to admit it was very nice. The quad is beautiful and perfect for meals.

Munger is even nicer than I expected. You can't tell from the online floor plans how huge and luxurious these suites are. Some of them have really nice views, too. If you live in Munger, you can get to class in three minutes, door-to-door. There are tons of common spaces (though each suite has more than enough, so it's overkill), and laundry is free. There's also a convenience store in Munger, but it's pretty expensive. The overgrown palm trees make Munger look like a resort, which it really is.

The other residences, Rains and EV, aren't nearly as nice as Munger but still better than the dorms I'm used to from undergrad. They're not too far (10-20 minutes walk) from the law school and are $200-400 cheaper per month than Munger. You're more likely to get roommates outside the law school in these residences.

The campus itself is very pretty. A lot of people bike, and while bikes aren't necessary especially if you live in Munger, the weather this weekend was so nice that even I felt like renting a bike and going for a ride. I'm definitely planning to get one when I get here. I'll probably end up studying at different parts of the university just to get away from the law school stress. I'm avoiding the library unless I need strict silence to get something done--it was pretty intimidating.

I won't go into detail about the panels. They got repetitive so I actually skipped a lot of them to talk to current students and check out the campus.

Two things I liked about Stanford's academic program: first, the full-time clinics. At most schools, students will criticize clinics as generally poor experiences if you push them hard enough to tell you the truth. The biggest criticisms are that they're not all that similar to practice and that they take up too much time. Stanford's clinics are definitely time-consuming in that they're full-time, but you won't have to worry about taking classes at the same time. And since they're full-time, the experience should more closely resemble practice. Second, the ability to take 31 credits outside the law school. To graduate, you have to complete 82 credits beyond your required first-year courses, so you can take a lot of courses outside the law school. As naively excited about law school as I am now, I'm sure law school classes and exams will get old super fast, and it's nice to be able to take so many courses outside the law school.

My biggest concern about Stanford is that it's suburban. It doesn't have the exciting activities and conveniences of a city. I think there's only one restaurant that does late night delivery, if even that. Bars in Palo Alto are sparse and close super early. Access to San Francisco is just inconvenient enough that going to SF isn't something you'd do spontaneously, though it's certainly doable if you plan for it. Some 2Ls and 3Ls even commute to school from SF. Going anywhere outside campus pretty much requires a car unless it's on one of the shuttle routes. The social scene is somewhat limited because of the location and the size of the law school. There are tons of social activities in Munger, but outside that, there aren't many options. The dating scene seems weak. However, you can meet people through clubs outside the law school, and the different grad and professional schools at Stanford seem to do a lot of joint activities.

Stanford's definitely not for everyone. While the student atmosphere was a great fit for me, I can see how it might not be right for others--and I don't mean this in a sarcastic "if you like terrible people, you won't like Stanford!" way. Being in a tight-knit community helps you get to know people in a more meaningful way, but it's harder to avoid people you dislike. It can also feel a little insular, which makes it all the more helpful to have those courses and extracurricular activities outside the law school.

I came home excited about law school for the first time. I'm pretty cynical and jaded and not easily impressed by these law school productions, so it's pretty remarkable that I had such a positive experience here. I'm still on the fence about Stanford because I'm very debt averse, but Stanford's ASW was my favorite by far.

Oh, we got no swag other than the sunscreen. So disappointed!

[brogoc]

Thanks for the report, soj!

[Geneva]

I could only make it to part of ASW, but I loved SLS! Yale has been my dream school for as long as I can remember and I'm waitlisted there, but I'm tempted to just commit to SLS and withdraw all my other applications.

[Dani.B]

I could only make it to part of ASW, but I loved SLS! Yale has been my dream school for as long as I can remember and I'm waitlisted there, but I'm tempted to just commit to SLS and withdraw all my other applications.

Do it so we can be classmates!

[Twit]

Thanks, soj!

My biggest concern about Stanford is that it's suburban. It doesn't have the exciting activities and conveniences of a city.

Ditto.

I could only make it to part of ASW, but I loved SLS! Yale has been my dream school for as long as I can remember and I'm waitlisted there, but I'm tempted to just commit to SLS and withdraw all my other applications.

I'm pretty sure that in 3 or 4 days, that temptation will be necessity! I'm actually feeling amazingly non-neurotic with the deadlines approaching!

[Geneva]

I could only make it to part of ASW, but I loved SLS! Yale has been my dream school for as long as I can remember and I'm waitlisted there, but I'm tempted to just commit to SLS and withdraw all my other applications.

I'm pretty sure that in 3 or 4 days, that temptation will be necessity! I'm actually feeling amazingly non-neurotic with the deadlines approaching!

Haha, so true! I'm actually really set on Stanford. ASW quieted my financial concerns and made me feel like SLS will give me a much better quality of life than most other schools. I'm still thrilled and grateful that I was accepted, especially when people with much better numbers are being turned away. It seemed like many of the people at ASW had Harvard and Yale or Yale as options. Knowing that other people turned down Hamiltons and Ruby scholarships and HY to go to SLS made me realize just how lucky I am to have such talented classmates and amazing opportunities at SLS!

[slsorhls]

Anyone else find the weekend less than satisfying/HLS did a way better job?

I think most, if not all, people there were already 95% sure of their choice (even if they didn't realize that). With that said, anyone else find anything weak? For instance, I thought the mock class was bad.

[soj]

I actually found many undecided people. I wrote about them in my post.

As for H vs S, I liked S's ASW much better. I would have liked H's ASW more if I'd had more chances to interact with other admits and current students in small groups. Almost everything was done in large groups and I found it hard to connect meaningfully with many people. It was still overall impressive and I'm sure some people would prefer it. Given your post history, I'm not surprised at all that you liked Harvard's better.

[slsorhls]

I actually found many undecided people. I wrote about them in my post.

As for H vs S, I liked S's ASW much better. I would have liked H's ASW more if I'd had more chances to interact with other admits and current students in small groups. Almost everything was done in large groups and I found it hard to connect meaningfully with many people. It was still overall impressive and I'm sure some people would prefer it. Given your post history, I'm not surprised at all that you liked Harvard's better.

Did you attend the negotiation workshop (where people were broken up into small groups)? The dinner with a professor (again, small groups)? The lunch with current students? I connected with a lot of people at both, and I also encountered people I would have trouble connecting with. The advantage there, of course, is I know I wouldn't have to work with those people. I'm a little more worried about that at SLS (the same concern you pointed out in your long post about the ASW).

But really--I'm not sure where people will end up. I don't want to choose HLS because of great admits if it turns out most of them go to SLS or YLS, you know?

Anyway, what did you think of the mock class? I thought the HLS one was way, way better. I'm hoping to engage with the law I learn on a somewhat theoretical level. I understand that HLS doesn't go as far as Yale in that regard, which is a good thing, but I'm worried SLS might get too practical. I don't want to be sitting in class all day talking about how plantiff's counsel would argue A and defendant's would argue B--I want to be thinking about the interesting, bigger picture stuff. I'm hoping that the more practical stuff will be somewhat obvious and not as much a central topic of discussion. I'm hoping the backdrop will be something like...we're all smart and will have great careers, why not take the chance in law school to delve into deeper stuff...rather than 'I better figure out how to argue A vs. B in case I ever run into this one day at work.'

[lightbulb1986]

.

[slsorhls]

I actually found many undecided people. I wrote about them in my post.

As for H vs S, I liked S's ASW much better. I would have liked H's ASW more if I'd had more chances to interact with other admits and current students in small groups. Almost everything was done in large groups and I found it hard to connect meaningfully with many people. It was still overall impressive and I'm sure some people would prefer it. Given your post history, I'm not surprised at all that you liked Harvard's better.

Did you attend the negotiation workshop (where people were broken up into small groups)? The dinner with a professor (again, small groups)? The lunch with current students? I connected with a lot of people at both, and I also encountered people I would have trouble connecting with. The advantage there, of course, is I know I wouldn't have to work with those people. I'm a little more worried about that at SLS (the same concern you pointed out in your long post about the ASW).

But really--I'm not sure where people will end up. I don't want to choose HLS because of great admits if it turns out most of them go to SLS or YLS, you know?

Anyway, what did you think of the mock class? I thought the HLS one was way, way better. I'm hoping to engage with the law I learn on a somewhat theoretical level. I understand that HLS doesn't go as far as Yale in that regard, which is a good thing, but I'm worried SLS might get too practical. I don't want to be sitting in class all day talking about how plantiff's counsel would argue A and defendant's would argue B--I want to be thinking about the interesting, bigger picture stuff. I'm hoping that the more practical stuff will be somewhat obvious and not as much a central topic of discussion. I'm hoping the backdrop will be something like...we're all smart and will have great careers, why not take the chance in law school to delve into deeper stuff...rather than 'I better figure out how to argue A vs. B in case I ever run into this one day at work.'

lol. too practical.

Yes, does any person of HYS caliber really need to spend three years learning boring, obvious things that they will then relearn in a much more relevant context after graduation?

[soj]

I didn't get a chance to have dinner with a prof, and I attended every event except some panels. Did you go to a different ASW? At the lunch with students, I had a poor experience where a few students who were set on another school talked among themselves and didn't interact with the remaining three students at the table. There weren't any current students at my table, so I ended up moving to a different table to try to talk to one. The current student at my second table was nice, but she had to leave early so I didn't have much chance to interact with her.

The negotiation workshop was fun! I was afraid of having to deal with Type A personalities, but my group was great. I didn't really keep in touch with anyone from the exercise, though. In fact, I only encountered two of them the rest of my time at the ASW. I was actually pretty surprised when someone who had been in my negotiation group didn't recognize me a few weeks later at another school's ASW.

I went to the mock classes at both ASWs and thought both were okay--nothing amazing. I wouldn't consider the mock class a representative experience of the law school anyway.

It sounds like you had a better experience at HLS. My experience was fine too, but it left me wanting a little more. Even after three days at ASW I felt like I only met a few people I would keep in touch with.

[drizzle12]

You do realize that this is one example of one section of one class, right? I thought other schools had better mock classes than SLS but that doesn't make it representative of the entire curriculum available. If you like(d) HLS better than SLS, that's fine. But the mock classes during ASW don't seem like a reasonable thing to judge that on.

[Geneva]

just because SLS teaches practical skills doesn't mean the school disregards the theoretical. my impression was that sls pushed the practical side in part to distinguish themselves from YLS, not because a SLS education doesn't include both the theoretical and practical aspects of law. Please tell me I'm right! Why? Because I <3 the theoretical and would be perfectly happy to learn most of the practical skills I will need on the job...

[lightbulb1986]

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[soj]

No law student I know has ever complained that law school classes were too practical and relevant to real-life practice. LOL at even the thought. I'm actually skeptical that Stanford's curriculum is all that practical, but if it is, that would be a huge plus, not a negative.

[slsorhls]

you will long for practicality your first year and will not find it.

Given my background and personality, I highly, highly, highly doubt that. But can you elaborate?