anyone applying to University of Utah law school and BYU? Forum

[settlednomad]

I just moved to SLC, Utah and am applying to law school this year. Most likely applying to UofU and BYU. Does anyone have any insight into these schools? Also if you know where I could get a solid study group started? Thanks.

[esq]

If BYU, you will need to get an ecclesiastical endorsement or, if you are not religious, find the nearest LDS congregation and interview with its Mormon bishop for an endorsement. You will be endorsed if you are deemed morally fit enough to enroll in their school, which basically means that you will commit to no drug/alchohol/tabacco usage, no homo-erotic relations/sex out of wedlock, and a BYU code of dress - no sandals, sideburns, facial hair, shorts. After you and your endorser sign a contract stating that you are willing to live by BYU's LDS code of morals, then you are good to go.

U of U, on the other hand, is virtually ranked at the same level, and while it's certain that the Mormon influence is prevalent at this university as well, there is no obligation to follow LDS standards. Its location in SLC is also appealing. While it might not carry the same connotations that BYU does for its squeaky clean image and protestant work ethic, U of U does have a solid clinical program that I think is a great draw.

[usuaggie]

If BYU, you will need to get an ecclesiastical endorsement or, if you are not religious, find the nearest LDS congregation and interview with its Mormon bishop for an endorsement. You will be endorsed if you are deemed morally fit enough to enroll in their school, which basically means that you will commit to no drug/alchohol/tabacco usage, no homo-erotic relations/sex out of wedlock, and a BYU code of dress - no sandals, sideburns, facial hair, shorts. After you and your endorser sign a contract stating that you are willing to live by BYU's LDS code of morals, then you are good to go.

U of U, on the other hand, is virtually ranked at the same level, and while it's certain that the Mormon influence is prevalent at this university as well, there is no obligation to follow LDS standards. Its location in SLC is also appealing. While it might not carry the same connotations that BYU does for its squeaky clean image and protestant work ethic, U of U does have a solid clinical program that I think is a great draw.

this isn't completely accurate about BYU. a little too stereotyped and a little bit just false. I hate byu though, so don't read this as me defending them against being weird.

I live in utah, went to undergrad in utah, and I know a lot about both schools, so if you have specific questions, feel free to PM me.

[sundevil77]

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Seriously, dude, wtf?

If BYU, you will need to get an ecclesiastical endorsement or, if you are not religious, find the nearest LDS congregation and interview with its Mormon bishop for an endorsement. You will be endorsed if you are deemed morally fit enough to enroll in their school, which basically means that you will commit to no drug/alchohol/tabacco usage, no homo-erotic relations/sex out of wedlock, and a BYU code of dress - no sandals, sideburns, facial hair, shorts. After you and your endorser sign a contract stating that you are willing to live by BYU's LDS code of morals, then you are good to go.

U of U, on the other hand, is virtually ranked at the same level, and while it's certain that the Mormon influence is prevalent at this university as well, there is no obligation to follow LDS standards. Its location in SLC is also appealing. While it might not carry the same connotations that BYU does for its squeaky clean image and protestant work ethic, U of U does have a solid clinical program that I think is a great draw.

Thank you for your amazing contribution I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that if OP is not already LDS, he/she has some vague notion of what BYU requires. Please go get a life, bro!

I just moved to SLC, Utah and am applying to law school this year. Most likely applying to UofU and BYU. Does anyone have any insight into these schools? Also if you know where I could get a solid study group started? Thanks.

OP, I'll actually try and offer some pertinent advice. I'm from AZ, but very seriously considered BYU. Out of those two schools it's not even really close; BYU is head and shoulders better than UofU. And believe me, I say that as someone that has repeatedly decided not to attend BYU. BYU has a much better alumni network, it's academically superior, and they place more people in more positions. The NLJ "50 Go to Law Schools" ranks them at 34 (Top 50 schools for Biglaw firms), while UofU doesn't even come in on the list. All else being equal (i.e. $$, acceptance, indifferent to SLC v. Provo), BYU is the clear choice.

[esq]

this isn't completely accurate about BYU. a little too stereotyped and a little bit just false. I hate byu though, so don't read this as me defending them against being weird.

I live in utah, went to undergrad in utah, and I know a lot about both schools, so if you have specific questions, feel free to PM me.

I should've just done this in the first place SettledNomad, but here is BYU's link. You can read up on the obligations yourself. You do have a bit of leeway on the shorts, below the knee (garment line) is fine, sideburns, above mid ear is OK, and facial hair, mustaches trimmed above the lip are acceptable. Oh, and forget about drinking coffee or tea too. BYU's University Honor Code is no stereotype and certainly is not false. This does not eliminate many of its strengths, however, so if you are OK with going to a school that is synonymous with the LDS faith, you are good to go. That being said, both The U and The Y are equally ranked at 42 - so no difference there. I also think that The U's location in Salt Lake City is very appealing - especially for clinical opportunities that focus on social issues - while BYU is more corporate. So it really depends on the direction that you want to take your JD, but as one who is particularly interested in The U's family law clinic, you might understand which school I prefer.

--LinkRemoved--

ps. As has been displayed here by usuaggie and sundevil77, from Utah and AZ, Mesa most likely, Mormons are very passionate about BYU. To them BYU represents more than just a school, it also represents their faith. So while many young Mormons will try to disassociate themselves with it so as not to be seen as sqaures - it's hard to be seen as different and therefore unique in the LDS religion when most everyone goes to the same school and has the same beliefs - be aware that most LDS view any perceived slight to BYU as a slight to their own person.

[sundevil77]

this isn't completely accurate about BYU. a little too stereotyped and a little bit just false. I hate byu though, so don't read this as me defending them against being weird.

I live in utah, went to undergrad in utah, and I know a lot about both schools, so if you have specific questions, feel free to PM me.

I should've just done this in the first place SettledNomad, but here is BYU's link. You can read up on the obligations yourself. You do have a bit of leeway on the shorts, below the knee (garment line) is fine, sideburns, above mid ear is OK, and facial hair, mustaches trimmed above the lip are acceptable. Oh, and forget about drinking coffee or tea too. BYU's University Honor Code is no stereotype and certainly is not false. This does not eliminate many of its strengths, however, so if you are OK with going to a school that is synonymous with the LDS faith, you are good to go. That being said, both The U and The Y are equally ranked at 42 - so no difference there. I also think that The U's location in Salt Lake City is very appealing - especially for clinical opportunities that focus on social issues - while BYU is more corporate. So it really depends on the direction that you want to take your JD, but as one who is particularly interested in The U's family law clinic, you might understand which school I prefer.

--LinkRemoved--

ps. As has been displayed here by usuaggie and sundevil77, from Utah and AZ, Mesa most likely, Mormons are very passionate about BYU. To them BYU represents more than just a school, it also represents their faith. So while many young Mormons will try to disassociate themselves with it so as not to be seen as sqaures - it's hard to be seen as different and therefore unique in the LDS religion when most everyone goes to the same school and has the same beliefs - be aware that most LDS view any perceived slight to BYU as a slight to their own person.

I think that's pretty fair. You're insulting a school that in many ways represents my faith. Although I have chosen to go to two state schools (ASU and UofA), and have decided not to attend BYU for UG or law school, I do feel somewhat connected to the school in a more abstract way.

However, my original statement stands; your over-the-top description of the school's moral guidelines were obviously superfluous. I don't think anyone living in SLC and considering BYU for law school would be unaware of BYU's social atmosphere. Heck, there's probably a better than 50% chance that OP is Mormon. Your response to OP served merely as an inflammatory remark to get others riled up (apparently you succeeded with me )

I think OP is probably looking for more quantitative data than anything. Like I said before, BYU's placement into Biglaw, and its employment prospects in general, are much better than UofU. As a UofU grad, you're going to be highly dependent on the SLC market. At the same time you'll be competing with many BYU grads that want the same market. However, at BYU your degree enjoys a much greater degree of portability. You can't underestimate the loyalty that BYU alumni across the country feel for their alma mater. Although the USNWR ranking is the same, your prospects at Biglaw and clerkships are anything but that. BYU will offer better placement, period. The numbers back that up.

Lastly, you must consider cost. If OP is LDS, the tuition at BYU can't be beat ($10K/year). Even if you are LDS, though, the school isn't right for everybody. For starters, the school is seen as uber-competitive. If schools were ranked solely off of their median LSAT/GPA, then BYU would be a T30 school. If I were you, I would talk to attorneys in the area and see what they would suggest. I'm sure you'll get some valuable insight into the differences between the two degrees.

[usuaggie]

Yeah, I am LDS but I would not go to BYU if they offered me a full ride. It just isn't for me. The most important thing to consider about byu is the environment. There is nothing about the school that makes it so much better than Utah, except the tuition. I can't stand the thought of being forced to be a good person "or else." I like to do that on my own, thank you. Although I'd have no problem with the honor code, it is a manner of principle to adhere to a good life by choice and not by force for me.

BYU lacks diversity, if that is important to you (racial and religious). It is also extremely conservative, possibly the most conservative school in the entire nation. That is not necessarily a bad thing, especially since most law schools tend to lean the opposite way.

Provo, as much as it pains me to say, is a good town. There may not be huge attractions like you would see in vegas, new york, etc., but salt lake city doesn't really have those either. Entertainment in Utah is pretty unique. Kids get creative. There are a lot of weird games (utahns have this thing called night games. Idk. I refuse to play. It sounds ridiculous, but they love it), intramural sports, hiking, tubing, swimming, movie watching, and BYU has great athletics (but so does utah, and the rivalry between the two schools is fierce. I'm talking michigan ohio st fierce.). Student living can be relatively expensive. My ex girlfriend pays 10,000 a year for a room in a 4 bedroom apartment. At my school, I pay 3,500 a year for the same thing. The town is super safe, super clean, and super cold.



Utah is conservative but not like BYU. The athletic program is joining the PAC 10, so I'm guessing the reputation of Utah will steadily rise since it is now associated with a prestigious research conference (now associated with washington, usc, ucla, oregon instead of byu, air force, unlv, colorado state). The students are known to be a lot more accepting than the ones at the Y, and you can find a lot more bars in slc if you are into that (there are probably literally 2-4 in the entire city of provo). Utah would probably have been my top choice, but I didn't get in.

Although slc is close to provo, it doesn't get as much snow. The city is more developed and urban. The athletics are great, unless you are a basketball fan (but they have some serious history/tradition with basketball too). 50% of utah is mormon. I would say 40% of slc is mormon, and 70% of provo is mormon. If you don't know any mormons or what it is like to live in a place surrounded by them, don't worry about it. It really isn't a big deal. There is nothing weird except for everybody in utah looks like everybody else. I'm only hardly exaggerating. I've seen people get married that I would have sworn were siblings or at least cousins.

Utah, it seems, has a better reputation than byu. However, since most mormons like byu, and mormons are all over the place, it is easier to escape the mountain west area if you go to byu because a byu grad will be more likely to give you a job than you could find with a U degree.

One last thing. Utah's facilities are old and falling apart. It was a real turnoff when I visited. However, they expect a new building/renovations to be done in 3 years.

If you have any other questions, feel free to message me.

[sundevil77]

Yeah, I am LDS but I would not go to BYU if they offered me a full ride. It just isn't for me. The most important thing to consider about byu is the environment. There is nothing about the school that makes it so much better than Utah, except the tuition. I can't stand the thought of being forced to be a good person "or else." I like to do that on my own, thank you. Although I'd have no problem with the honor code, it is a manner of principle to adhere to a good life by choice and not by force for me.

BYU lacks diversity, if that is important to you (racial and religious). It is also extremely conservative, possibly the most conservative school in the entire nation. That is not necessarily a bad thing, especially since most law schools tend to lean the opposite way.

Provo, as much as it pains me to say, is a good town. There may not be huge attractions like you would see in vegas, new york, etc., but salt lake city doesn't really have those either. Entertainment in Utah is pretty unique. Kids get creative. There are a lot of weird games (utahns have this thing called night games. Idk. I refuse to play. It sounds ridiculous, but they love it), intramural sports, hiking, tubing, swimming, movie watching, and BYU has great athletics (but so does utah, and the rivalry between the two schools is fierce. I'm talking michigan ohio st fierce.). Student living can be relatively expensive. My ex girlfriend pays 10,000 a year for a room in a 4 bedroom apartment. At my school, I pay 3,500 a year for the same thing. The town is super safe, super clean, and super cold.



Utah is conservative but not like BYU. The athletic program is joining the PAC 10, so I'm guessing the reputation of Utah will steadily rise since it is now associated with a prestigious research conference (now associated with washington, usc, ucla, oregon instead of byu, air force, unlv, colorado state). The students are known to be a lot more accepting than the ones at the Y, and you can find a lot more bars in slc if you are into that (there are probably literally 2-4 in the entire city of provo). Utah would probably have been my top choice, but I didn't get in.

Although slc is close to provo, it doesn't get as much snow. The city is more developed and urban. The athletics are great, unless you are a basketball fan (but they have some serious history/tradition with basketball too). 50% of utah is mormon. I would say 40% of slc is mormon, and 70% of provo is mormon. If you don't know any mormons or what it is like to live in a place surrounded by them, don't worry about it. It really isn't a big deal. There is nothing weird except for everybody in utah looks like everybody else. I'm only hardly exaggerating. I've seen people get married that I would have sworn were siblings or at least cousins.

Utah, it seems, has a better reputation than byu. However, since most mormons like byu, and mormons are all over the place, it is easier to escape the mountain west area if you go to byu because a byu grad will be more likely to give you a job than you could find with a U degree.

One last thing. Utah's facilities are old and falling apart. It was a real turnoff when I visited. However, they expect a new building/renovations to be done in 3 years.

If you have any other questions, feel free to message me.

Haha, sometimes I don't understand all the open hostility between BYU and UofU. Maybe it's because I'm not from Utah.

[PiersonVee]

ps. As has been displayed here by usuaggie and sundevil77, from Utah and AZ, Mesa most likely, Mormons are very passionate about BYU. To them BYU represents more than just a school, it also represents their faith. So while many young Mormons will try to disassociate themselves with it so as not to be seen as sqaures - it's hard to be seen as different and therefore unique in the LDS religion when most everyone goes to the same school and has the same beliefs - be aware that most LDS view any perceived slight to BYU as a slight to their own person.

This is exactly why BYU is so much better at placing students at larger firms. The NALP data speaks for itself, if you ever want to check it out.

[Mosca]

Utah...is joining the PAC 10

'nuff said

[JetstoRJC]

I am fairly familiar with both BYU and U of U law schools (although won't be attending either). As I am not tied to either school, here is my opinion as to how they compare:

Although BYU and the U are fairly close in the latest rankings, I think BYU is a better law school in several aspects. I am sure there are plenty here who will disagree with me, but BYU beats Utah in several areas. BYU has a stronger and more widespread alumni network. Hiring numbers are better at BYU. Incoming students' LSAT scores and GPAs are better at BYU. I believe BYU places better in clerkships (I know they have even placed a handful of Supreme Court clerkships over the past few years). In my opinion, BYU is the better established and overall stronger law school.

Now this is mainly opinion, so feel free to argue with me if you would like. I realize BYU is not for everybody. The difference between the schools is minimal and one definitely wouldn't make a mistake by picking one above the other. I think the U of U has really improved their law program in recent years and is making great strides at catching BYU. However, I believe there is still a ways to go.

[nickbentley]

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Seriously, dude, wtf?

If BYU, you will need to get an ecclesiastical endorsement or, if you are not religious, find the nearest LDS congregation and interview with its Mormon bishop for an endorsement. You will be endorsed if you are deemed morally fit enough to enroll in their school, which basically means that you will commit to no drug/alchohol/tabacco usage, no homo-erotic relations/sex out of wedlock, and a BYU code of dress - no sandals, sideburns, facial hair, shorts. After you and your endorser sign a contract stating that you are willing to live by BYU's LDS code of morals, then you are good to go.

U of U, on the other hand, is virtually ranked at the same level, and while it's certain that the Mormon influence is prevalent at this university as well, there is no obligation to follow LDS standards. Its location in SLC is also appealing. While it might not carry the same connotations that BYU does for its squeaky clean image and protestant work ethic, U of U does have a solid clinical program that I think is a great draw.

Thank you for your amazing contribution I'm gonna go out on a limb here, but I'm guessing that if OP is not already LDS, he/she has some vague notion of what BYU requires. Please go get a life, bro!

I just moved to SLC, Utah and am applying to law school this year. Most likely applying to UofU and BYU. Does anyone have any insight into these schools? Also if you know where I could get a solid study group started? Thanks.

Is this for real? The guy didn't say ANYTHING negative about BYU (although there are plenty of negatives that he could have mentioned). I'm "mormon" too and you need to relax.

[12AngryMen]

[quote TheDevil77]I think that's pretty fair. You're insulting a school that in many ways represents my faith. Although I have chosen to go to two state schools (ASU and UofA), and have decided not to attend BYU for UG or law school, I do feel somewhat connected to the school in a more abstract way.

However, my original statement stands; your over-the-top description of the school's moral guidelines were obviously superfluous. I don't think anyone living in SLC and considering BYU for law school would be unaware of BYU's social atmosphere. Heck, there's probably a better than 50% chance that OP is Mormon. Your response to OP served merely as an inflammatory remark to get others riled up (apparently you succeeded with me )
[/quote]

You must not know how to read Devil. Cause I looked to see his superfluous-flammitory-insults and conclude that it's insulting only if your church is a insult cause everything he said is there in BYU's admission page. Also what he said is the 1st thing that TLS mentions about BYU and Princeton Reveiw. I never even thought that a school could tell you to not be gay to go to it, but now that I know I have reason #2 to not like BYU cause I know they don't like black folk either for a long time. My dislike for BYU is worse now cause I think hes right, ya'll are haters.