Michigan ASW Forum

[starstruck393]

The 'central' part of Ann Arbor is around two square miles. There's some stuff on the outskirts but it's more urban sprawl-esque: malls, shopping strips, Whole Foods, etc. Between roughly Washtenaw on the east and 2nd Street on the west, and South Industrial on the south to Fuller Street at the north is considered Ann Arbor proper.

Ann Arbor is not a big city. I agree with the above poster that if you're looking to be busy outside of law school 24/7, Ann Arbor is probably not for you. It's possible, but the same fifteen or twenty bars and thirty or so restaurants would probably get old real quick if you're looking for big city life. There's more going on than a place like Cornell or UVA, but it's more like either of those than NYU.

Thanks! I don't really know how big 2 sq miles is (I really suck at distances/areas/spatial stuff), but it's got to be bigger then my ug's "town" which was really just one main street with some side branches. I like the idea of a small, liveable, not-too-distracting city-town.

Look at it this way. If you were to walk from, say, the south east corner of A2 proper, which is the edge of the campus/student area, to the northwest corner (far corner of the downtown), it could easily take you 45 min to an hour.

And there's a lot more to A2 than just that central area, essentially made up of central campus and downtown. There are neighborhoods spreading in all directions, a lot of things you have to get to by car. That's maybe my favorite part of Ann Arbor. Go to other college towns, and it's this small town area surrounded by fields. A2 is a small town area surrounded by some of the most picturesque neighborhoods I've ever seen surrounded by general surburbiaishness then surrounded by fields/forest. It's actually a fairly large city for not being a "big city", with 60,000-70,000 permanent residents, not including students. I've rarely come across other cities that give off the friendly, positive vibe A2 does.

[Kiersten1985]

The 'central' part of Ann Arbor is around two square miles. There's some stuff on the outskirts but it's more urban sprawl-esque: malls, shopping strips, Whole Foods, etc. Between roughly Washtenaw on the east and 2nd Street on the west, and South Industrial on the south to Fuller Street at the north is considered Ann Arbor proper.

Ann Arbor is not a big city. I agree with the above poster that if you're looking to be busy outside of law school 24/7, Ann Arbor is probably not for you. It's possible, but the same fifteen or twenty bars and thirty or so restaurants would probably get old real quick if you're looking for big city life. There's more going on than a place like Cornell or UVA, but it's more like either of those than NYU.

Thanks! I don't really know how big 2 sq miles is (I really suck at distances/areas/spatial stuff), but it's got to be bigger then my ug's "town" which was really just one main street with some side branches. I like the idea of a small, liveable, not-too-distracting city-town.

You should go to UMich then and free up a space at CLS for me!!

[goodolgil]

One thing I will comment on.

When at the career services panel the question was asked, "Well, what about the bottom 50% of the class?" since most of the job talk revolved around those in the top 50% it is easy to forgot that SOMEONE has to be in the bottom 50%...actually quite a few....somewhere around half

And I was NOT comforted by their responses. It was along the lines of "We will get you in front of an interviewer. You better pull off a miraculous interview so he/she overlooks your grades once he/she sees them." What I would have liked to hear was something along the lines of "Michigan does an excellent job placing even for the bottom 50%. The name equity of the Michigan brand is strong enough that students who may not be in the top 50/25/10% still have job options. It may be harder no doubt, but the brand and alumni base is just that strong." Something I have heard from other "top law schools." I didn't hear that, the panel kind of laughed to themselves and then threw out that weak response above.


But besides this I loved the people and the campus.

That was actually me who asked that, haha. I wasn't too comforted either. They talked like it isn't inevitable that half the class finishes in the bottom half.

[nixxers]

One thing I will comment on.

When at the career services panel the question was asked, "Well, what about the bottom 50% of the class?" since most of the job talk revolved around those in the top 50% it is easy to forgot that SOMEONE has to be in the bottom 50%...actually quite a few....somewhere around half

And I was NOT comforted by their responses. It was along the lines of "We will get you in front of an interviewer. You better pull off a miraculous interview so he/she overlooks your grades once he/she sees them." What I would have liked to hear was something along the lines of "Michigan does an excellent job placing even for the bottom 50%. The name equity of the Michigan brand is strong enough that students who may not be in the top 50/25/10% still have job options. It may be harder no doubt, but the brand and alumni base is just that strong." Something I have heard from other "top law schools." I didn't hear that, the panel kind of laughed to themselves and then threw out that weak response above.


But besides this I loved the people and the campus.

That was actually me who asked that, haha. I wasn't too comforted either. They talked like it isn't inevitable that half the class finishes in the bottom half.

Were you guys in the first career services panel or the second?

[doinmybest]

One thing I will comment on.

When at the career services panel the question was asked, "Well, what about the bottom 50% of the class?" since most of the job talk revolved around those in the top 50% it is easy to forgot that SOMEONE has to be in the bottom 50%...actually quite a few....somewhere around half

And I was NOT comforted by their responses. It was along the lines of "We will get you in front of an interviewer. You better pull off a miraculous interview so he/she overlooks your grades once he/she sees them." What I would have liked to hear was something along the lines of "Michigan does an excellent job placing even for the bottom 50%. The name equity of the Michigan brand is strong enough that students who may not be in the top 50/25/10% still have job options. It may be harder no doubt, but the brand and alumni base is just that strong." Something I have heard from other "top law schools." I didn't hear that, the panel kind of laughed to themselves and then threw out that weak response above.


But besides this I loved the people and the campus.

That was actually me who asked that, haha. I wasn't too comforted either. They talked like it isn't inevitable that half the class finishes in the bottom half.

Were you guys in the first career services panel or the second?

First I think. I remember going to judicial clerkships right after that panel.

[goodolgil]

Yeah, it was the first one. BTW, my face got "cold as ice" only because when they laughed I thought for a second I asked a really stupid question :p

[nixxers]

One thing I will comment on.

When at the career services panel the question was asked, "Well, what about the bottom 50% of the class?" since most of the job talk revolved around those in the top 50% it is easy to forgot that SOMEONE has to be in the bottom 50%...actually quite a few....somewhere around half

And I was NOT comforted by their responses. It was along the lines of "We will get you in front of an interviewer. You better pull off a miraculous interview so he/she overlooks your grades once he/she sees them." What I would have liked to hear was something along the lines of "Michigan does an excellent job placing even for the bottom 50%. The name equity of the Michigan brand is strong enough that students who may not be in the top 50/25/10% still have job options. It may be harder no doubt, but the brand and alumni base is just that strong." Something I have heard from other "top law schools." I didn't hear that, the panel kind of laughed to themselves and then threw out that weak response above.


But besides this I loved the people and the campus.

That was actually me who asked that, haha. I wasn't too comforted either. They talked like it isn't inevitable that half the class finishes in the bottom half.

Were you guys in the first career services panel or the second?

First I think. I remember going to judicial clerkships right after that panel.

I see. I was in the second panel and their answer was a bit more comforting... maybe they got together and figured out what to say

[starstruck393]

One thing I will comment on.

When at the career services panel the question was asked, "Well, what about the bottom 50% of the class?" since most of the job talk revolved around those in the top 50% it is easy to forgot that SOMEONE has to be in the bottom 50%...actually quite a few....somewhere around half

And I was NOT comforted by their responses. It was along the lines of "We will get you in front of an interviewer. You better pull off a miraculous interview so he/she overlooks your grades once he/she sees them." What I would have liked to hear was something along the lines of "Michigan does an excellent job placing even for the bottom 50%. The name equity of the Michigan brand is strong enough that students who may not be in the top 50/25/10% still have job options. It may be harder no doubt, but the brand and alumni base is just that strong." Something I have heard from other "top law schools." I didn't hear that, the panel kind of laughed to themselves and then threw out that weak response above.


But besides this I loved the people and the campus.

That was actually me who asked that, haha. I wasn't too comforted either. They talked like it isn't inevitable that half the class finishes in the bottom half.

Were you guys in the first career services panel or the second?

First I think. I remember going to judicial clerkships right after that panel.

I missed that one; how was it?

[holborn]

can anyone comment as to what the judicial clerkship one was like? I didn't attend, which was stupid considering I'm interested in clerking.

[snickersnicker]

can anyone comment as to what the judicial clerkship one was like? I didn't attend, which was stupid considering I'm interested in clerking.

They mostly just compared Michigan to other elite schools using this graph of the number of clerkships obtained at each top school from 1995-2005. Michigan was something like seventh or eighth, but basically tied with eight schools after Yale and Harvard. They said federal clerkships are about as common as state or local, and that there are plenty of connections within the law school to land positions. Specifically, the lady leading the presentation claimed she knows a lot of federal judges personally and works hard to get Michigan students into clerkship positions with them.

[Illijah]

One thing I will comment on.

When at the career services panel the question was asked, "Well, what about the bottom 50% of the class?" since most of the job talk revolved around those in the top 50% it is easy to forgot that SOMEONE has to be in the bottom 50%...actually quite a few....somewhere around half

And I was NOT comforted by their responses. It was along the lines of "We will get you in front of an interviewer. You better pull off a miraculous interview so he/she overlooks your grades once he/she sees them." What I would have liked to hear was something along the lines of "Michigan does an excellent job placing even for the bottom 50%. The name equity of the Michigan brand is strong enough that students who may not be in the top 50/25/10% still have job options. It may be harder no doubt, but the brand and alumni base is just that strong." Something I have heard from other "top law schools." I didn't hear that, the panel kind of laughed to themselves and then threw out that weak response above.


But besides this I loved the people and the campus.

That was actually me who asked that, haha. I wasn't too comforted either. They talked like it isn't inevitable that half the class finishes in the bottom half.

haha yea they did act like half the class wasn't basically screwed. and i wasn't laughing either because it wasn't funny. VERY serious question.

[Tangerine Gleam]

can anyone comment as to what the judicial clerkship one was like? I didn't attend, which was stupid considering I'm interested in clerking.

They mostly just compared Michigan to other elite schools using this graph of the number of clerkships obtained at each top school from 1995-2005. Michigan was something like seventh or eighth, but basically tied with eight schools after Yale and Harvard. They said federal clerkships are about as common as state or local, and that there are plenty of connections within the law school to land positions. Specifically, the lady leading the presentation claimed she knows a lot of federal judges personally and works hard to get Michigan students into clerkship positions with them.

I thought that, by raw number alone (which isn't necessarily the best way to go), Michigan placed third? Or am I thinking academia?

BTW, your new avatar is even more creepily accurate. Amazing.

[Reinhardt]

I think third was academia. I don't think Mich was 6th or 7th in clerkships though - it was definitely a bit higher. It was a little goofy that they barely addressed the per student argument. "Eh, Yale has fewer students, but Harvard has twice as many, so it all comes out in the wash." Harvard is more like 1.5x as many...and they ignored Chicago...but that's the Michigan Kool Aid for ya. Most of us will be drinking it soon enough.

[snickersnicker]

I don't think Mich was 6th or 7th in clerkships though - it was definitely a bit higher.

Was it? I thought it was Yale, Harvard, Chicago, Columbia, NYU, Mich, Virginia or something along those lines. I could be mistaken, though I remember it being around the middle of the graph of fifteen schools.

[Reinhardt]

I distinctly remember Chicago being lower in absolute number of clerkships. They would've made up for it on a per-student graph, and they had a pretty crazy proportion of COA clerkships, but Michigan had more absolute numbers.

[starstruck393]

BTW, your new avatar is even more creepily accurate. Amazing.

I wondered when I saw the cardigan, but I didn't remember who proposed the idea. Then after ASW I saw the avatar, and instantly knew one real life/tls match

[nuseph]

Specifically, the lady leading the presentation claimed she knows a lot of federal judges personally and works hard to get Michigan students into clerkship positions with them.

I don't think it was so much that she knows the judges personally, but that, after doing this for awhile, she gets to know what certain judges are looking for and how applicants may need to modify their approach when dealing with them. Makes a lot of sense.

[ankit]

The 'central' part of Ann Arbor is around two square miles. There's some stuff on the outskirts but it's more urban sprawl-esque: malls, shopping strips, Whole Foods, etc. Between roughly Washtenaw on the east and 2nd Street on the west, and South Industrial on the south to Fuller Street at the north is considered Ann Arbor proper.

Ann Arbor is not a big city. I agree with the above poster that if you're looking to be busy outside of law school 24/7, Ann Arbor is probably not for you. It's possible, but the same fifteen or twenty bars and thirty or so restaurants would probably get old real quick if you're looking for big city life. There's more going on than a place like Cornell or UVA, but it's more like either of those than NYU.

Thanks! I don't really know how big 2 sq miles is (I really suck at distances/areas/spatial stuff), but it's got to be bigger then my ug's "town" which was really just one main street with some side branches. I like the idea of a small, liveable, not-too-distracting city-town.

I remember Dean Caminker mentioning that the nature of the town and the isolated geography of the quad allowed for student and faculty energy to be concentrated within a certain area, as opposed to dispersed from a large city-campus.

I actually bought that argument, as I heard something similar as a minor gripe from a couple of NYU/CLS students. I'm not sure of this, but I think its pretty likely that student organizations in Michigan are more active in general than those in other schools, which would be a positive.

[betsyanna]

Specifically, the lady leading the presentation claimed she knows a lot of federal judges personally and works hard to get Michigan students into clerkship positions with them.

I don't think it was so much that she knows the judges personally, but that, after doing this for awhile, she gets to know what certain judges are looking for and how applicants may need to modify their approach when dealing with them. Makes a lot of sense.

Probably Prof. Larsen. She knows her stuff--sits down individually with everybody applying to clerkships and talks through strategies. She's brutally honest about your chances with different judges, but in a good/helpful way. And she knows things that are hard to find out elsewhere (e.g., she told me which of my judges tend to ignore the Federal hiring guidelines). I think she clerked for Scalia not so long ago.

[tamlyric]

Specifically, the lady leading the presentation claimed she knows a lot of federal judges personally and works hard to get Michigan students into clerkship positions with them.

I don't think it was so much that she knows the judges personally, but that, after doing this for awhile, she gets to know what certain judges are looking for and how applicants may need to modify their approach when dealing with them. Makes a lot of sense.

Probably Prof. Larsen. She knows her stuff--sits down individually with everybody applying to clerkships and talks through strategies. She's brutally honest about your chances with different judges, but in a good/helpful way. And she knows things that are hard to find out elsewhere (e.g., she told me which of my judges tend to ignore the Federal hiring guidelines). I think she clerked for Scalia not so long ago.

It was definitely Professor Larsen, and I think nuseph's account of the claim she was making is spot on. Go Blue!

[doinmybest]

It was definitely Professor Larsen, and I think nuseph's account of the claim she was making is spot on. Go Blue!

Ha! I think I just figured out who tamlyric is. Definitely a cool guy in person. I met so many cool people at ASW, I'm not so sure I could see myself anywhere else this fall...

[parker09]

You should go to UMich then and free up a space at CLS for me!!

Haha, no promises, but it's very possible! Will depend a lot on CLS financial aid, which hopefully is coming soon.

Thanks, all (especially starstruck), for helping my spatially-challenged self conceptualize 2 sq miles. 45 mins diagonal walk is a pretty good size.

[TCScrutinizer]

Mods also need to wordfilter "UMich" to "Hogwarts" and "Mich" to "Warts."

[doinmybest]

Mods also need to wordfilter "UMich" to "Hogwarts" and "Mich" to "Warts."

Wow they did... I was thoroughly confused when I logged on this morning. I was almost certain that this was sign akin to a magical letter from Hogwarts that my evil step family is trying to keep me from having.

[existenz]

I'm pretty sure Michigan was third on the total list of clerkships, which jives with this chart I saw on TLS a while back:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =1&t=75513

Yale and Harvard placement in clerkships is ridiculous, though that probably speaks to the fact that so many judges went to those schools, or are prestige whores like anyone else.

Regarding the question about students who place in the bottom 50% of the class, the panel did say that "last year, 99% of our students found jobs, so obviously the bottom 50% did just fine". I don't know what kind of better answer you want. Historically 50% of Michigan's graduating classes get jobs at top 250 law firms, another 10% or so get clerkships, and who knows how many go into PI and boutique firms.