Michigan ASW Forum

[03121202698008]

I think that already exists.

Does it? I found one for the school but no one has posted in months. The other one for the school no one has posted since 2009.

Edit: I found it but that one is for summer starters.

[awesomepossum]

how do you figure?

Description:
University of Michigan Law Class of 2013

[03121202698008]

how do you figure?

Description:
University of Michigan Law Class of 2013

Ok, I'm an idiot. Didn't see that one...

[doinmybest]

I really enjoyed my visit to Michigan except for one thing: WORST ROOMMATE EVER. No, seriously. I knew my roommate was immature when I first met him, but I had no idea it would be so bad. After bar night on Friday at Rick's, my roommate came back to the Bell Tower Hotel drunk as hell and went to bed. I was soon woken up by the sound of what I thought was a leak in the ceiling. I opened my eyes, and there was my roommate sprawled out on the bed exposing himself to me. But wait, it gets better; HE WAS PISSING ALL OVER THE CARPET! WTF! Who does that? How did this kid get into law school? Anybody else have any crazy post-bar night experiences?

LOL

I think I know who your roommate was. BTW he lurks TLS...

Anyway, I didn't have any roommate problems. He was a nice guy, I really hope he decides to come to Michigan, but he didn't seem set on it, since he got a BIG scholarship somewhere he kinda had his heart set on. I met awesomepossum at the trivia night, he seems like a pretty cool guy. I didn't get to meet ay other TLSers though . Everyone at Michigan was super nice, I'm really set on Michigan now. Honestly, I could really see myself there. All I have to worry about is the weather... ugh that will really be a challenge, since 40 degrees is cold to me.

[parker09]

Totally jealous that all of you guys got to go to ASW (and meet some of each other)! I wasn't able to go, but I was wondering if anyone could report back on anything career services said about how employment (1L summer, 2L summer, post-grad, etc.) is looking? And anything related to clerkships, PI opportunities, etc.

[itzjulz]

Totally jealous that all of you guys got to go to ASW (and meet some of each other)! I wasn't able to go, but I was wondering if anyone could report back on anything career services said about how employment (1L summer, 2L summer, post-grad, etc.) is looking? And anything related to clerkships, PI opportunities, etc.

I'll chime in on this as a current 1L. OCS has just started giving us a little of the "doom and gloom", since they've started prepping us for next fall's EIW/OCI. They've hinted that our class could be in better shape than last year's class, but that we should still plan very carefully, research thoroughly, bid wisely on interviews, expand our search outside OCI, etc. We've had market consultants from the major markets on campus the last week or so, and all of them seem to have echoed the same sentiment. We're not out of the water yet, so everyone just needs to reevaluate their game plan (and maybe re-think your Wachtell or Cravath plans for now)

As for 1L summer, lots of my classmates have found work, though there are some still looking (some have just struck out or are still waiting to hear back from places they've interviewed with, others were sort of late in applying). Lots of friends doing judicial internships (of varying "prestige"), working for gov't agencies, in-house jobs, PI/non-profit work, and even a few who scored firm jobs. I would say that the people who landed more prestigious jobs (gov't, firm, etc.) both applied early and had some relevant experience already. Others (myself included) scored jobs by reaching out to alums or faculty for networking help.

[goodolgil]

I should have asked people if they posted on TLS; I guess I felt it was too dorky.

I thought the weekend was awesome. Only downside was the culture shock of going to a place like Rick's when all I'm used to is bars in "hip" parts of Brooklyn. But the students stressed that there were some more adult places on Main St., I'll have to check that out next time I'm there.

[questions]

Hey ASW attendees ... what is that username/password sticker on the folder for? I couldn't figure it out....

[goodolgil]

Hey ASW attendees ... what is that username/password sticker on the folder for? I couldn't figure it out....

wifi

[holborn]

it was for the wireless internet while we were there.

[hooty86]

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[JRMjr]

Totally jealous that all of you guys got to go to ASW (and meet some of each other)! I wasn't able to go, but I was wondering if anyone could report back on anything career services said about how employment (1L summer, 2L summer, post-grad, etc.) is looking? And anything related to clerkships, PI opportunities, etc.

I can only talk about my limited experience as a 1L. I am a 1L summer starter, and I have only spoken to 13 people (out of my summer starter section of 90) about summer jobs so I can only tell you what these 13 people are doing. Out of the 13 I have spoken to, all have jobs; 6 are working for firms (one abroad, one IP, all paid); 5 are working for judges; 1 is working for the public defender (only sent out one application total), and 1 is working for the prosecutor's office.

(I am working for a federal judge. I sent out a "grand sum" of 5 applications, all to judges in my home region, at the end of December.)

wow.

[Illijah]

One thing I will comment on.

When at the career services panel the question was asked, "Well, what about the bottom 50% of the class?" since most of the job talk revolved around those in the top 50% it is easy to forgot that SOMEONE has to be in the bottom 50%...actually quite a few....somewhere around half

And I was NOT comforted by their responses. It was along the lines of "We will get you in front of an interviewer. You better pull off a miraculous interview so he/she overlooks your grades once he/she sees them." What I would have liked to hear was something along the lines of "Michigan does an excellent job placing even for the bottom 50%. The name equity of the Michigan brand is strong enough that students who may not be in the top 50/25/10% still have job options. It may be harder no doubt, but the brand and alumni base is just that strong." Something I have heard from other "top law schools." I didn't hear that, the panel kind of laughed to themselves and then threw out that weak response above.


But besides this I loved the people and the campus.

[parker09]

Thanks for the responses! So the consensus sounds like: Career Services isn't that optimistic (or some might say, is realistic), but anecdotally, people seem to be doing fine...?

Illijah: What was the Career Services response for the top 50%?

[Reinhardt]

To be fair, I don't know if it was the same panel, but I also heard "Students well into the bottom half find good jobs, although it may be a little more difficult."

[JRMjr]

One thing I will comment on.

When at the career services panel the question was asked, "Well, what about the bottom 50% of the class?" since most of the job talk revolved around those in the top 50% it is easy to forgot that SOMEONE has to be in the bottom 50%...actually quite a few....somewhere around half

And I was NOT comforted by their responses. It was along the lines of "We will get you in front of an interviewer. You better pull off a miraculous interview so he/she overlooks your grades once he/she sees them." What I would have liked to hear was something along the lines of "Michigan does an excellent job placing even for the bottom 50%. The name equity of the Michigan brand is strong enough that students who may not be in the top 50/25/10% still have job options. It may be harder no doubt, but the brand and alumni base is just that strong." Something I have heard from other "top law schools." I didn't hear that, the panel kind of laughed to themselves and then threw out that weak response above.


But besides this I loved the people and the campus.

anyone that says you're safe in this economy in the bottom half of the class.... yikes. Also, alot of bottom 50% either dont want those big firm jobs or have options lined up (from what I have heard out of my friends)

[shaville]

A "miraculous interview"? It will take a miracle to get a job out the bottom 50%?? I guess a candid response from a law school is refreshing...kind of.

[hooty86]

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[Illijah]

Thanks for the responses! So the consensus sounds like: Career Services isn't that optimistic (or some might say, is realistic), but anecdotally, people seem to be doing fine...?

Illijah: What was the Career Services response for the top 50%?

They will work very hard to place you and they have been extremely effective getting students where they want to be. They mentioned numerous examples of placing students in firms across the country. Also they did mention the difficulty of the economy and some students may have there employment temporarily held. But that the economy is also rebounding (and it is).

And plenty of top schools have 95% + placement for their class so the bottom 50% have to get some jobs. perhaps not their 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice but somewhere. Michigan didn't say this nor did they say anything about the bottom 50 being the people into Public Interest. I don't think thats safe to assume.

[Illijah]

A "miraculous interview"? It will take a miracle to get a job out the bottom 50%?? I guess a candid response from a law school is refreshing...kind of.

Not just "a job" but a job you really want.

But if you spend 150,000+ and bust your ass and somehow your not in the top 50% I feel you still deserve a job you want. Maybe not your top top choices, but still something you want to do.

Maybe i'm just an idealist.

[shaville]

A "miraculous interview"? It will take a miracle to get a job out the bottom 50%?? I guess a candid response from a law school is refreshing...kind of.

Not just "a job" but a job you really want.

But if you spend 150,000+ and bust your ass and somehow your not in the top 50% I feel you still deserve a job you want. Maybe not your top top choices, but still something you want to do.

Maybe i'm just an idealist.

Couldn't agree more.

[Alexandria]

My inclination is just to think that someone answered the question badly/the answers you've gotten elsewhere have been more rehearsed and less frank. Michigan's bottom half is doing about the same its peer schools'.

I'm not saying this to dissuade you from going to law school... I've loved it and am happy I did it. But on your list of things to think about, I'd worry much more about the economy and future of the legal market period than about comparing prospects of the bottom of the class at comparable schools (the differences between which are minute and speculative).

[beesknees]

As someone who is considering Michigan at sticker (but really even people with a small scholly probably feel the same way), I think I understand everyone's concern here and why people are trying to speculate about the prospects for the bottom 50% of the class. I understand that law school is an investment in your career, but it seems absurd to take on what will probably end up being close to $200k in debt when you figure in COL if you can't get a decent job at the end. By definition of the curve, half of the class will end up in the bottom half of the class situation. It scares me to death to hear that kind of talk and know I could be in that situation with an absurd amount of debt.

[JRMjr]

As someone who is considering Michigan at sticker (but really even people with a small scholly probably feel the same way), I think I understand everyone's concern here and why people are trying to speculate about the prospects for the bottom 50% of the class. I understand that law school is an investment in your career, but it seems absurd to take on what will probably end up being close to $200k in debt when you figure in COL if you can't get a decent job at the end. By definition of the curve, half of the class will end up in the bottom half of the class situation. It scares me to death to hear that kind of talk and know I could be in that situation with an absurd amount of debt.

Im in at sticker. Its really all how confident you are that you can be top 30% even when surrounded by REALLY SMART PEOPLE (emphasis on REALLY x50)

[Alexandria]

As someone who is considering Michigan at sticker (but really even people with a small scholly probably feel the same way), I think I understand everyone's concern here and why people are trying to speculate about the prospects for the bottom 50% of the class. I understand that law school is an investment in your career, but it seems absurd to take on what will probably end up being close to $200k in debt when you figure in COL if you can't get a decent job at the end. By definition of the curve, half of the class will end up in the bottom half of the class situation. It scares me to death to hear that kind of talk and know I could be in that situation with an absurd amount of debt.

That is DEFINITELY understandable. What I'm trying to say is that I think these worries are more relevant to whether to go to law school at all than to picking between peer schools.

Honestly... while things have worked out for me... if I had known while deciding whether to go to law school what would happen to the economy, I don't think I would have taken on the risk.