Deferred at Columbia! Forum

[completelyshocked]

Hello all,

I am actually grinning from ear to ear because I have been deferred at Columbia Law School (I applied Early Decision). While my GPA is stellar (4.0), my LSAT is only a 158 (and that's the improved retake score). However, I was notified today that CLS will wait until the end of March before letting me know of a final decision. Again, I am VERY shocked because I expected an automatic rejection. I'm guessing they actually READ applications there. I am a white male from a high SES background, so absolutely no sort of URM love. I have been outright rejected from a few other schools that are ranked high but outside the top ten. I have also been extended some great offers from well-regarded law schools!

Does CLS have a reputation for being "polite" to ED candidates-- as in the girl who won't tell you "NO!" but is rolling her eyes the second you turn around. Do I stand a chance? Are people rejected ED, or is everyone deferred or accepted?

If I stand a chance, what should I do? Take the LSAT for a third time? Send a letter of continued interest? Submit an additional rec. letter with a uniquely different perspective than my other LORs? Get creative and submit a diversity statement? Let me know, guys!

I see a silver lining...!

[Helmholtz]

A CLS ED deferral basically amounts to a soft rejection. Do what you can to show interest, but don't go in expecting anything. I have never heard of a CLS ED deferred applicant eventually being admitted.

[completelyshocked]

A CLS ED deferral basically amounts to a soft rejection. Do what you can to show interest, but don't go in expecting anything. I have never heard of a CLS ED deferred applicant eventually being admitted.

Well, you have tempered my excitement, but I did figure it may be like the temptestuous woman who has no interest in you-- even though "you're a really nice guy and all."

Is an LSAT retake worth it?

[Helmholtz]

A CLS ED deferral basically amounts to a soft rejection. Do what you can to show interest, but don't go in expecting anything. I have never heard of a CLS ED deferred applicant eventually being admitted.

Well, you have tempered my excitement, but I did figure it may be like the temptestuous woman who has no interest in you-- even though "you're a really nice guy and all."

Is an LSAT retake worth it?

If you think you can score considerably higher, it won't hurt. Frankly, I think that's about the only shot you have of getting in.

[SanBun]

I too am surprised they didn't reject you right away. Just looking at LSN, there are 4 ED rejections and all of them have higher lsats than you. It definitely signals to me that they liked you enough to not group you with those rejected people. If you think you can score higher, retake. Say you 'only' get a 167 (low for columbia), they might still look upon that favorably b/c you're showing initiative. I agree with Helm, don't get your hopes up, but really, a 158 from a non URM not ending in a rejection is odd and implies that you still have a shot, albeit a rather small one.

[completelyshocked]

Thank you both for the replies.

I took my first two LSATs as a nervous wreck. I do believe I have a higher score in me. Do I need to contact Columbia first to see if they will even wait for a third LSAT score?

Will my other efforts (loci, additional rec, etc.) be in vain, or does that show further initiative?

I am in complete shock over this deferral. I assumed it would be an outright rejection. There was definitely something holistic going on in that office because I am a genuinely good applicant minus my heinous (to CLS, at least) LSAT.

I too would not have been quite as surprised if I were a URM and got deferred. I've been given an inch...now I just have to go a mile (hopefully).

[completelyshocked]

Alright gang...

So I called the CLS Admissions office. Spoke with a guy named Josh-- seemed to be in a HUGE rush. He did not really offer me an answer one way or the other about a February retake, but he did state that I could e-mail Columbia with my request.

The LSAT is no walk in the park, so I would be really pissed to retake it if it wasn't going to be considered. However, if it will be considered, I'm willing to make the necessary sacrifices to make it happen.

What should I do in light of getting a non-answer? Will they even answer the e-mail?

[PoliticalJunkie]

If CLS is your dream school, do what you need to do. They cracked opened the door when they could have just slammed it shut. They may simply shut it after you take the LSAT in Feb, but then again, you'll never know.

Would you rather get deferred, not do much to improve your chances then rejected in March and wonder "what if" or do you want to roll up the sleeves, take the LSAT, get some additional rec, write some additional essays etc and give yourself the best shot.

I'd rather be the latter - even if the chances are small, they could have simply rejected you outright and they didn't. That says something to me.

Good Luck!

[legends159]

you'll need to score at least a 172ish to stand a chance.

If you can score that high, regardless of whether CLS will let you in you'll stand a much better chance at getting into top law schools than if you kept your 158

[completelyshocked]

PoliticalJunkie, it is my dream school. And you're right, I need to do everything I can to achieve this dream so as not to look back and ask, "What if"?

legends, I will do everything in my power to get a 172. Not giving up here!

[xcountryjunkie]

Their official policy is to not use the Feb LSAT test. You'll need to apply for an exception to that policy. I know that because I listed on my app that I was registered for the Feb LSAT and they emailed me asking if I wanted to apply for an exception to the policy or use my Sept. LSAT score. It sounded like you'd need a good reason to get the exception, and frankly, I didn't have one. So I'm using my old one and hoping things work out (not overly optimistic).

Edit: FYI, I'm not deferred at Columbia, just thought you'd like the perspective. I'm still "pending completion."

[completelyshocked]

Thank you, countryjunkie. Can the request for an extension be sent via e-mail, or is postal mail more appropriate? Since their letter indicated a late March decision, I am hoping they will consider my impending February score.

By the way, I have officially registered for the Feb. LSAT! If there are any kind high-scoring posters on the board, I would LOVE to be in contact with you. Thank you!

[HJO]

I wish you the best of luck and I really hope you get in. That being said, I almost feel bad for you because I believe you that you will put in a ton of work and make a substantial improvement of your LSAT (even a jump of 5 points which is something to feel good about only gets you to a 163), write letters, get new recs, etc...Columbia is still going to reject you. Your case is exactly why there should be no "soft rejects" schools should either take you or not but don't string along good kids who really want to attend your school for months on end making them think they have some sort of chance to be accepted, its cruel and shouldn't be done. All that said I hope you, well really Columbia, prove me wrong but I have a feeling they wont.

[OperaSoprano]

A CLS ED deferral basically amounts to a soft rejection. Do what you can to show interest, but don't go in expecting anything. I have never heard of a CLS ED deferred applicant eventually being admitted.

Seriously, Helm? I've heard of schools not having to go to waitlists or deferred lists at all if they've miscalculated yield, but what would CLS have to gain by doing this as a matter of policy? My school waitlists like none other, but it lets those people in. If this is an ongoing practice, and not just an anomaly, it amounts to cruel and unusual punishment.

[dms87]

you'll need to score at least a 172ish to stand a chance.

If you can score that high, regardless of whether CLS will let you in you'll stand a much better chance at getting into top law schools than if you kept your 158

FWIW, you don't need "a 172ish to stand a chance". I suppose it gets tougher to get a seat by the time February/March roll around, but with a 4.0, a 172 makes you a "strong consider", so you can definitely have a good shot with a somewhat lower score.

[xcountryjunkie]

Thank you, countryjunkie. Can the request for an extension be sent via e-mail, or is postal mail more appropriate? Since their letter indicated a late March decision, I am hoping they will consider my impending February score.

By the way, I have officially registered for the Feb. LSAT! If there are any kind high-scoring posters on the board, I would LOVE to be in contact with you. Thank you!

Their email to me only stated: "In order to consider your request, at your earliest convenience, please submit a written explanation as to the reasons for requesting this exception." So I can't tell you which method would be more appropriate. Sorry!

[ShibaDan]

So did anyone send in anything extra yet? Anyone planning to? I was thinking about sending an LOCI and extra rec in Feb, but I don't know if it's even going to be worth it...I hope someone gets in after being deferred.

[Vegas_Rebel]

So did anyone send in anything extra yet? Anyone planning to? I was thinking about sending an LOCI and extra rec in Feb, but I don't know if it's even going to be worth it...I hope someone gets in after being deferred.

The only thing I've sent so far is my Fall grades with a couple sentence blurb about still being very interested in Columbia.

I'm not sure it's full on LOCI time yet, but I'm feeling the urge along with you.

[ShibaDan]

So did anyone send in anything extra yet? Anyone planning to? I was thinking about sending an LOCI and extra rec in Feb, but I don't know if it's even going to be worth it...I hope someone gets in after being deferred.

The only thing I've sent so far is my Fall grades with a couple sentence blurb about still being very interested in Columbia.

I'm not sure it's full on LOCI time yet, but I'm feeling the urge along with you.

Yeah I'm torn between sending it too early or too late. Like if I send it now will it get stuck in the back of my file? If I send it at the end of Feb will they be like WTF mate what took you so long? Sigh.

[ShibaDan]

Any updates? Anyone who was deferred get in/rejected or are you all stuck in no man's land with me?

[melanieB]

I was also deferred with a similar LSAT and GPA. The letter said that Columbia usually does not defer people in my situation, but the letter also said that they would compare my application to those on the waiting list. Haven't heard from them since...Don't need to though. I assume rejection either way. I am a CU undergrad but I doubt that had anything to do with it. Anyway, good luck to OP though!

[ShibaDan]

I was also deferred with a similar LSAT and GPA. The letter said that Columbia usually does not defer people in my situation, but the letter also said that they would compare my application to those on the waiting list. Haven't heard from them since...Don't need to though. I assume rejection either way. I am a CU undergrad but I doubt that had anything to do with it. Anyway, good luck to OP though!

Also Columbia undergrad...I guess they just felt bad flat out rejecting us. Want us to donate in the future.