Cardozo 2010 Forum

[jrod]

According to this, when you break down the total student body by firm jobs, amount reporting in general and for firm job salaries (all of the asterisks), 36% of 2009 cardozo grads were making six figures out the door (obviously this will decrease but so it will it everywhere else).

http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/MemberContent ... ntid=10310

So Cardozo -- controlling for a bad economy -- is a school where over a third of the student make six figures? Really?

If you don't think so, why? The school is not excluding the people who don't report...

[sibley]

According to this, when you break down the total student body by firm jobs, amount reporting in general and for firm job salaries (all of the asterisks), 36% of 2009 cardozo grads were making six figures out the door (obviously this will decrease but so it will it everywhere else).

http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/MemberContent ... ntid=10310

So Cardozo -- controlling for a bad economy -- is a school where over a third of the student make six figures? Really?

If you don't think so, why? The school is not excluding the people who don't report...

I noticed this too. I didn't research it, just did a little quick math. Perhaps its just the students' connections? Jews have them.

[jrod]

It's actually 36.68% making 105K or more. I mean taking into account that this may not include clerkships and competitive folks who aren't after BigLaw... it seems pretty enticing... yet somehow too good to be true.

[sibley]

It's actually 36.68% making 105K or more. I mean taking into account that this may not include clerkships and competitive folks who aren't after BigLaw... it seems pretty enticing... yet somehow too good to be true.

email the dean about it and ask how they calculate the statistic. when I was concerned over sections they gave a very fulfilling response.

[84Sunbird2000]

How can 36.7% make over 105k? Because its in NYC, and the 4th best school in NYC will still give you options. Look at the cost-of-living, though, to get an idea of what that 105k really is. I know many of you are from NYC, and 105k is still a lot of money, but Cardozo is very regional to NYC, which will actually inflate salaries compared to other schools of even superior rank and job prospects.

105k in NYC IS:

71K in Atlanta
51k in Winston-Salem
81k in Chicago
99k in LA
67k in Denver
81k in Boston
65k in Minneapolis
51k in Syracuse
53k in Pittsburgh
55k in Bismarck
60k in Tampa

CNN's calculator makes these discrepancies even wider than Sperling's (44k for Pittsburgh, 45k Bismarck, 48k for Syracuse)

SO, look at regional schools of within 20 spots of Cardozo in these markets. Look at their medians and reporting (and even public interest/ government salaries) and Cardozo is less of a world-beater in terms of overall quality of live.

For example, Wake in Winston-Salem/Greensboro/High Point (and all of NC is pretty damn cheap) the median (calculated out to 21% of the class at minimum) was 115k, and 25th (minimum 31% of the class) was 70k. Considering their PI median and reporting, it's almost a guarantee that half of the class at Wake is making more than the 51k COL equalizer to Cardozo's 105k in NYC. Now, I understand that some of those schools are placing into DC and NYC and thus the tuition equalizer isn't foolproof, but 36% at equivalent QOL/COL is very likely.

[sibley]

105k in NYC IS:

71K in Atlanta
51k in Winston-Salem
81k in Chicago
99k in LA
67k in Denver
81k in Boston
65k in Minneapolis
51k in Syracuse
53k in Pittsburgh
55k in Bismarck
60k in Tampa

I like this. I'm going to keep it to help me keep my head while making a final decision. Are they making 105k in NYC, assumably, then? And how much do Brooklyn and Fordham grads make?

[jrod]

Well, first off, it was a minimum of 105K. Over a quarter make over 145K.

Re: your inflation comment, I don't see how they do that... they show exactly how many people reported and what the median number is. The only idea would be that students lie about their salary, but that wouldn't be limited to any one law school so it can't be used as a differentiating factor.

Also, there's places in Queens or other boros, or north on the MetroNorth where COL is pretty damn cheap i.e. 50% lower rent, cheaper groceries, stores, etc.

Anyway... just some thoughts.

[sibley]

Well, first off, it was a minimum of 105K. Over a quarter make over 145K.

Re: your inflation comment, I don't see how they do that... they show exactly how many people reported and what the median number is. The only idea would be that students lie about their salary, but that wouldn't be limited to any one law school so it can't be used as a differentiating factor.

Also, there's places in Queens or other boros, or north on the MetroNorth where COL is pretty damn cheap i.e. 50% lower rent, cheaper groceries, stores, etc.

Anyway... just some thoughts.

metronorth would lower my col to food plus train tickets. but... well, you know.

Does anyone know about the Alabama? Found this facebook group,but it's old: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wal ... 4191485867
maybe it's better now?

[kaydish21]

Well, first off, it was a minimum of 105K. Over a quarter make over 145K.

Anyway... just some thoughts.

Does anyone know about the Alabama? Found this facebook group,but it's old: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wal ... 4191485867
maybe it's better now?

Holy crap. This place sounds ridiculous. Good research on the fbook group Sibley!

"Don't forget about the moussacre - my mouse traps killed 6 mice in 5 consecutive days. Now, keep in mind that I purchased those traps because the Super never responded to my reports that I had mice in my room."

and

"The trapped, dying (and waving) bugs on the sticky bug-traps in the laundry room are scary, but there is no need to be afraid - they are trapped..."

I mean, what do you even say to that?

[chocho]

Well, first off, it was a minimum of 105K. Over a quarter make over 145K.

Anyway... just some thoughts.

Does anyone know about the Alabama? Found this facebook group,but it's old: http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=wal ... 4191485867
maybe it's better now?

Holy crap. This place sounds ridiculous. Good research on the fbook group Sibley!

"Don't forget about the moussacre - my mouse traps killed 6 mice in 5 consecutive days. Now, keep in mind that I purchased those traps because the Super never responded to my reports that I had mice in my room."

and

"The trapped, dying (and waving) bugs on the sticky bug-traps in the laundry room are scary, but there is no need to be afraid - they are trapped..."

I mean, what do you even say to that?

yeah and when i go on a tour im sure they are going to show us the nicest rooms, and in the back of my head ill be thinking, is this really what its like to live here?

[sibley]

yeah and when i go on a tour im sure they are going to show us the nicest rooms, and in the back of my head ill be thinking, is this really what its like to live here?

if the room they show us IS nice I'll probably consider living there. I've become quite good at modifying my housing over the last 4 years. But I wonder how much it costs. I've heard it's really cheap (for the area) and I've heard it's really expensive.

[84Sunbird2000]

yeah and when i go on a tour im sure they are going to show us the nicest rooms, and in the back of my head ill be thinking, is this really what its like to live here?

if the room they show us IS nice I'll probably consider living there. I've become quite good at modifying my housing over the last 4 years. But I wonder how much it costs. I've heard it's really cheap (for the area) and I've heard it's really expensive.

Sadly, these are not mutually exclusive.


As to an earlier post: I don't think I indicated that there was any kind of lying or inflation in the reports, and I was trying to compare other schools' 36th percentile (or so) to Cardozo's. At the top, the discrepancy in salaries between almost any schools becomes much less noticeable, because these are the kids who get the market paying jobs. It's sad that some schools have such low reporting numbers, because it makes it hard to really judge the breakdowns and percentiles with any precision. In some cases, I would suspect that it's a lack of effort on the part of various parties, while in others it is likely cold-blooded statistical manipulation. For example, Hofstra's 160k median is based on a whopping 23% of students reporting.

I used a calculator that used the aggregate of all of NYC. Calculators that divide into boroughs have a 7 thousand dollar or so discrepancy one way or the other, though those calculators also tend to give a bigger advantage to the lower COL cities. I know you can land $800 studios in some portions of Queens, but if you are employed after school and working 60-70 hours a week, I'm sure most people will want something near work and of some middling luxury.

EDIT:

Also, wanted to add: I think the 36% number is actually not even true. 36% of the students who are reporting have an aggregate median of 105k of more. I guess it's safe to assume that all the students at the firms with 100 or more are all making over 100k, but only half of the 51-100 group are, so the initial number should be 38.1%.

38.1% of students who reported salary information are definitely making over 100k. 91% are reporting salary information, so now we are down to a bit over 34%. Then, taking into account that only 91.5% of students are employed, we are down to 31.7%. So it's certain that 31.7% of graduating students are making over 100k, rather than 36.8 making at least 105k.

There could be a few solo attorneys or boutique people making over 100k right off the bat, but they aren't indicated specifically by the statistics.

[carlkenneth]

yeah and when i go on a tour im sure they are going to show us the nicest rooms, and in the back of my head ill be thinking, is this really what its like to live here?

if the room they show us IS nice I'll probably consider living there. I've become quite good at modifying my housing over the last 4 years. But I wonder how much it costs. I've heard it's really cheap (for the area) and I've heard it's really expensive.

At the sneak peek event last month a 3L that took us on a tour of the schools said that rent at the Alabama (for a shared apt) was around $1800 per month. This is very cheap for that neighborhood (rents can go up to $5000 per month for an apt). But in general it's expensive for NYC, especially as a law student. As a NYer I can tell you that while it's walking distance from the school, one could get a studio apt in a nice neighborhood uptown (about a 15 minute train ride) for as little as $900, a one bedroom for $1200 or a three bedroom apt for $1800.

Edit: that's $1800 a month per person at the Alabama.

[sibley]

yeah and when i go on a tour im sure they are going to show us the nicest rooms, and in the back of my head ill be thinking, is this really what its like to live here?

if the room they show us IS nice I'll probably consider living there. I've become quite good at modifying my housing over the last 4 years. But I wonder how much it costs. I've heard it's really cheap (for the area) and I've heard it's really expensive.

At the sneak peek event last month a 3L that took us on a tour of the schools said that rent at the Alabama (for a shared apt) was around $1800 per month. This is very cheap for that neighborhood (rents can go up to $5000 per month for an apt). But in general it's expensive for NYC, especially as a law student. As a NYer I can tell you that while it's walking distance from the school, one could get a studio apt in a nice neighborhood uptown (about a 15 minute train ride) for as little as $900, a one bedroom for $1200 or a three bedroom apt for $1800.

Edit: that's $1800 a month per person at the Alabama.

$900! NO WAY! I would do that as long as the walk to the subway was a very short one. Sunbird, I have no idea about all those statistics you just analyzed, but they look pretty good to me.

[carlkenneth]

yeah and when i go on a tour im sure they are going to show us the nicest rooms, and in the back of my head ill be thinking, is this really what its like to live here?

if the room they show us IS nice I'll probably consider living there. I've become quite good at modifying my housing over the last 4 years. But I wonder how much it costs. I've heard it's really cheap (for the area) and I've heard it's really expensive.

At the sneak peek event last month a 3L that took us on a tour of the schools said that rent at the Alabama (for a shared apt) was around $1800 per month. This is very cheap for that neighborhood (rents can go up to $5000 per month for an apt). But in general it's expensive for NYC, especially as a law student. As a NYer I can tell you that while it's walking distance from the school, one could get a studio apt in a nice neighborhood uptown (about a 15 minute train ride) for as little as $900, a one bedroom for $1200 or a three bedroom apt for $1800.

Edit: that's $1800 a month per person at the Alabama.

$900! NO WAY! I would do that as long as the walk to the subway was a very short one. Sunbird, I have no idea about all those statistics you just analyzed, but they look pretty good to me.

No, $1800 per person in a shared apt. (Totaling $3600). Sorry if that was confusing.

[sibley]

if the room they show us IS nice I'll probably consider living there. I've become quite good at modifying my housing over the last 4 years. But I wonder how much it costs. I've heard it's really cheap (for the area) and I've heard it's really expensive.

At the sneak peek event last month a 3L that took us on a tour of the schools said that rent at the Alabama (for a shared apt) was around $1800 per month. This is very cheap for that neighborhood (rents can go up to $5000 per month for an apt). But in general it's expensive for NYC, especially as a law student. As a NYer I can tell you that while it's walking distance from the school, one could get a studio apt in a nice neighborhood uptown (about a 15 minute train ride) for as little as $900, a one bedroom for $1200 or a three bedroom apt for $1800.

Edit: that's $1800 a month per person at the Alabama.

$900! NO WAY! I would do that as long as the walk to the subway was a very short one. Sunbird, I have no idea about all those statistics you just analyzed, but they look pretty good to me.

No, $1800 per person in a shared apt. (Totaling $3600). Sorry if that was confusing.

Didn't you say studio for 900? I mean I wouldn't split a studio... oh I see what you mean. No I understand the the fees at the Alabama are per person. I'm just surprised you can get anything for under 1k in nyc.

[carlkenneth]

At the sneak peek event last month a 3L that took us on a tour of the schools said that rent at the Alabama (for a shared apt) was around $1800 per month. This is very cheap for that neighborhood (rents can go up to $5000 per month for an apt). But in general it's expensive for NYC, especially as a law student. As a NYer I can tell you that while it's walking distance from the school, one could get a studio apt in a nice neighborhood uptown (about a 15 minute train ride) for as little as $900, a one bedroom for $1200 or a three bedroom apt for $1800.

Edit: that's $1800 a month per person at the Alabama.[/quote]


$900! NO WAY! I would do that as long as the walk to the subway was a very short one. Sunbird, I have no idea about all those statistics you just analyzed, but they look pretty good to me.[/quote]

No, $1800 per person in a shared apt. (Totaling $3600). Sorry if that was confusing.[/quote]

Didn't you say studio for 900? I mean I wouldn't split a studio... oh I see what you mean. No I understand the the fees at the Alabama are per person. I'm just surprised you can get anything for under 1k in nyc.[/quote]

Yeah, I meant one could get an apt in another neighborhood, a short distance away for as little as $900. It's almost impossible to get anything under $1K in NYC, especially in Manhattan.

I live alone in a 3 bedroom apt in which the rent is only $1200. That's a pretty rare deal, but one could find something affordable if they really try and aren't wedded to living walking distance from their schools

[sibley]

I live alone in a 3 bedroom apt in which the rent is only $1200. That's a pretty rare deal, but one could find something affordable if they really try and aren't wedded to living walking distance from their schools

I would like to live walking distance, but I also don't want to have huge COL loans. I'd like to stay in Manhattan, though. I think you can get cheaper places if you don't have a convenient subway stop near your place... My bf's mom says she has a realtor acquaintance in brooklyn who is both a jerk and could give me a good deal. or I could stay with them in westchester. But I want to be SOMEWHAT close at least the first year. Of course, I also don't want to have to move for the next 3 years. sick of that from UG.

[carlkenneth]

I live alone in a 3 bedroom apt in which the rent is only $1200. That's a pretty rare deal, but one could find something affordable if they really try and aren't wedded to living walking distance from their schools

I would like to live walking distance, but I also don't want to have huge COL loans. I'd like to stay in Manhattan, though. I think you can get cheaper places if you don't have a convenient subway stop near your place... My bf's mom says she has a realtor acquaintance in brooklyn who is both a jerk and could give me a good deal. or I could stay with them in westchester. But I want to be SOMEWHAT close at least the first year. Of course, I also don't want to have to move for the next 3 years. sick of that from UG.

You can find something cheap in Manhattan. Maybe in Harlem or Washington Heights. I'm thinking of moving to one of those neighborhoods myself. But I definitely wouldn't recommend Westchester - that would be the worse commute ever

Wait - so does this mean you're definitely going to Cardozo? Has anyone else made up their mind on Cardozo yet?

[rodewan]

crap...just got "held" by cardozo. they say they will get back to me by april 30, 2010.

[sibley]

I live alone in a 3 bedroom apt in which the rent is only $1200. That's a pretty rare deal, but one could find something affordable if they really try and aren't wedded to living walking distance from their schools

I would like to live walking distance, but I also don't want to have huge COL loans. I'd like to stay in Manhattan, though. I think you can get cheaper places if you don't have a convenient subway stop near your place... My bf's mom says she has a realtor acquaintance in brooklyn who is both a jerk and could give me a good deal. or I could stay with them in westchester. But I want to be SOMEWHAT close at least the first year. Of course, I also don't want to have to move for the next 3 years. sick of that from UG.

You can find something cheap in Manhattan. Maybe in Harlem or Washington Heights. I'm thinking of moving to one of those neighborhoods myself. But I definitely wouldn't recommend Westchester - that would be the worse commute ever

Wait - so does this mean you're definitely going to Cardozo? Has anyone else made up their mind on Cardozo yet?

I'm not definitely going - I haven't heard from a lot of schools as of yet. But it's my top choice right now.

[nol607]

Sorry to abruptly join the conversation but if any of you are familiar w/nyc, would you mind recommending areas where it would be possible to find a studio for < $1000. I would be open to Brooklyn/Queens provided that the neighborhood is close to manhattan. Also, I have a small dog- less than 25lbs. That shouldn't make things too difficult, should it?

[sibley]

crap...just got "held" by cardozo. they say they will get back to me by april 30, 2010.

sorry =(

[rodewan]

crap...just got "held" by cardozo. they say they will get back to me by april 30, 2010.

sorry =(

thanks for your sympathies. waiting this much has already been torture, i have no idea how i will be able to stand it until the end of april, lols

[hannah87]

crap...just got "held" by cardozo. they say they will get back to me by april 30, 2010.

sorry =(

thanks for your sympathies. waiting this much has already been torture, i have no idea how i will be able to stand it until the end of april, lols

good luck!