UVA 2010, RD Forum

[memaha]

So I'm probably opening a can of worms here (and I am not trying to offend anyone that has gotten in today... I am really happy for you) but does anyone understand what is going on with this admission cycle? It seems that all they really care about is GPA. Last week they waitlisted dozens of people with LSATs 4-7 points over their median and .1-.3 lower on GPA. Now they are accepting individuals with LSATs 2 points below median and GPAs on the median. Does this make sense to anyone?

seems like UVA is doing all it can to protect its GPA median and assuming those WLed/dinged last week would not be attending UVA anyways in the long run, and thus YPing. Who knows. Their GPA obsession is screwing me over though... :/

[thickfreakness]

So I'm probably opening a can of worms here (and I am not trying to offend anyone that has gotten in today... I am really happy for you) but does anyone understand what is going on with this admission cycle? It seems that all they really care about is GPA. Last week they waitlisted dozens of people with LSATs 4-7 points over their median and .1-.3 lower on GPA. Now they are accepting individuals with LSATs 2 points below median and GPAs on the median. Does this make sense to anyone?

They may have gotten a flood of high-LSAT applicants and found it actually harder this cycle to find and keep 3.85+ applicants than 170+ applicants. They may have also taken more 170+ splitters early in the cycle than they should have, forcing them to compensate now by taking high-GPA kids.

Hard to say for sure, but there's a couple possible theories there.

Heh, I've got both numbers slightly above median and I'm still blowing in the wind over here. Hopefully I'll get some good news soon.

[portena]

I've got both at/above 75th (though not in YP territory) and I was really hoping today would be my day, as my status checker updated on Friday and people with the same (mid-December) complete date have been hearing back lately. I know many of you have been waiting much longer, so I have no right to be anxious, but I love UVA and really want some good news!

[flyingpanda]

So I'm probably opening a can of worms here (and I am not trying to offend anyone that has gotten in today... I am really happy for you) but does anyone understand what is going on with this admission cycle? It seems that all they really care about is GPA. Last week they waitlisted dozens of people with LSATs 4-7 points over their median and .1-.3 lower on GPA. Now they are accepting individuals with LSATs 2 points below median and GPAs on the median. Does this make sense to anyone?

They got all the high LSATs they needed via their ED process?

This might be the reason.

[showNprove]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

If you have two above-median numbers and don't get in, it's probably not because of YP.

[im_blue]

So I'm probably opening a can of worms here (and I am not trying to offend anyone that has gotten in today... I am really happy for you) but does anyone understand what is going on with this admission cycle? It seems that all they really care about is GPA. Last week they waitlisted dozens of people with LSATs 4-7 points over their median and .1-.3 lower on GPA. Now they are accepting individuals with LSATs 2 points below median and GPAs on the median. Does this make sense to anyone?

They may have gotten a flood of high-LSAT applicants and found it actually harder this cycle to find and keep 3.85+ applicants than 170+ applicants. They may have also taken more 170+ splitters early in the cycle than they should have, forcing them to compensate now by taking high-GPA kids.

Hard to say for sure, but there's a couple possible theories there.

Possible, but aren't there a lot more 3.85+/160-169 applicants than 3.84-/170+ applicants? Plus, the former aren't likely to have better T14 options (possibly none if < 167), while the latter might get one of CCN and be less likely to enroll.

[Dignan]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

If you have two above-median numbers and don't get in, it's probably not because of YP.

I think this comparison is a little misleading. The 75% figure includes all of last year's cycle, whereas the 93% figure includes only those acceptances that have gone out thus far. Based on what I can see on LSN, many (most?) of the high GPA, high LSAT applicants have not heard back from UVA yet. We may still get a big wave of YP-motivated waitlist decisions for that population.

[showNprove]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

If you have two above-median numbers and don't get in, it's probably not because of YP.

I think this comparison is a little misleading. The 75% figure includes all of last year's cycle, whereas the 93% figure includes only those acceptances that have gone out thus far. Based on what I can see on LSN, many (most?) of the high GPA, high LSAT applicants have not heard back from UVA yet. We may still get a big wave of YP-motivated waitlist decisions for that population.

A 75% acceptance rate still doesn't compute with rampant YP. Last year, Chicago accepted only 73% of applicants with both numbers above the median. Is Chicago an egregious yield protector, too?

The point is, even if you assume every non-acceptance is YP-motivated--which is a big assumption--the vast majority of people with high numbers still get in. Is it that far-fetched to assume that perhaps a small percentage of people with high numbers just aren't otherwise good candidates for particular law schools?

[im_blue]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

If you have two above-median numbers and don't get in, it's probably not because of YP.

I think this comparison is a little misleading. The 75% figure includes all of last year's cycle, whereas the 93% figure includes only those acceptances that have gone out thus far. Based on what I can see on LSN, many (most?) of the high GPA, high LSAT applicants have not heard back from UVA yet. We may still get a big wave of YP-motivated waitlist decisions for that population.

A 75% acceptance rate still doesn't compute with rampant YP. Last year, Chicago accepted only 73% of applicants with both numbers above the median. Is Chicago an egregious yield protector, too?

The point is, even if you assume every non-acceptance is YP-motivated--which is a big assumption--the vast majority of people with high numbers still get in. Is it that far-fetched to assume that perhaps a small percentage of people with high numbers just aren't otherwise good candidates for particular law schools?

Actually, Chicago is the egregious yield protector among CCN. If you look at the ~25% of 3.76+/171+ applicants that weren't accepted last year, many got into Yale, Harvard, and/or Columbia (often all 3), including TLS's own Mallard. How is an applicant a good fit for Harvard and even Yale, yet not Chicago?

In comparison, NYU takes around 95% of double-median applicants.

[showNprove]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

If you have two above-median numbers and don't get in, it's probably not because of YP.

I think this comparison is a little misleading. The 75% figure includes all of last year's cycle, whereas the 93% figure includes only those acceptances that have gone out thus far. Based on what I can see on LSN, many (most?) of the high GPA, high LSAT applicants have not heard back from UVA yet. We may still get a big wave of YP-motivated waitlist decisions for that population.

A 75% acceptance rate still doesn't compute with rampant YP. Last year, Chicago accepted only 73% of applicants with both numbers above the median. Is Chicago an egregious yield protector, too?

The point is, even if you assume every non-acceptance is YP-motivated--which is a big assumption--the vast majority of people with high numbers still get in. Is it that far-fetched to assume that perhaps a small percentage of people with high numbers just aren't otherwise good candidates for particular law schools?

Actually, Chicago is the egregious yield protector among CCN. If you look at the ~25% of 3.76+/171+ applicants that weren't accepted last year, many got into Yale, Harvard, and/or Columbia (often all 3), including TLS's own Mallard. How is an applicant a good fit for Harvard and even Yale, yet not Chicago?

In comparison, NYU takes around 95% of double-median applicants.

Not everyone who gets into Yale gets into Stanford or Harvard. This isn't a linear progression down the USNWR. When adcomms get thousands of applications from highly-qualified applicants for a limited number of seats, they do look at more than just numbers. Because adcomms are human, and because schools have different tilts and environments, the decisions are not going to be uniform.

Adcomms care more about not over-enrolling than they do about the yield rate. For every student they take with one lowish number, that's one less seat available for the people with two high numbers. Eventually someone needs to be put on the waitlist, regardless of which other schools accepted that applicant. After all, the adcomms at Penn don't call Yale to find out who Yale liked best so they can admit the same people. "Hey, Yale, who are all the cool schools picking this year? I don't want any weenies at my law school."

[im_blue]

Actually, Chicago is the egregious yield protector among CCN. If you look at the ~25% of 3.76+/171+ applicants that weren't accepted last year, many got into Yale, Harvard, and/or Columbia (often all 3), including TLS's own Mallard. How is an applicant a good fit for Harvard and even Yale, yet not Chicago?

In comparison, NYU takes around 95% of double-median applicants.

Not everyone who gets into Yale gets into Stanford or Harvard. This isn't a linear progression down the USNWR. When adcomms get thousands of applications from highly-qualified applicants for a limited number of seats, they do look at more than just numbers. Because adcomms are human, and because schools have different tilts and environments, the decisions are not going to be uniform.

Adcomms care more about not over-enrolling than they do about the yield rate. For every student they take with one lowish number, that's one less seat available for the people with two high numbers. Eventually someone needs to be put on the waitlist, regardless of which other schools accepted that applicant. After all, the adcomms at Penn don't call Yale to find out who Yale liked best so they can admit the same people. "Hey, Yale, who are all the cool schools picking this year? I don't want any weenies at my law school."

I don't disagree with the bolded statement. I'm arguing that virtually all HY acceptees should easily get into Chicago, as is the case at NYU. NYU waitlists/rejects about 5% of above-median applicants, compared to 25% at Chicago, so Chicago must be practicing YP or holistic admissions (we can all agree that NYU is a numbers whore). The fact that many of that 25% also gets into HY suggests the former.

I would also argue that any school with the problem of needing to waitlist numerically qualified or overqualified candidates is not maximizing its medians effectively. After all, why are you waitlisting above-median candidates when you could have rejected plenty of splitters that only help one median?

[KellyD09]

Waitlisted Today.

[rockchalk86]

Waitlisted... Fuck em, i got Michigan and Penn. Far superior. I guess the moral of the story, ED or bust.

[thisiswater1488]

Waitlisted today. Numbers at/above 75th%. Withdrew my app!

[jlnoa0915]

DING, needless to say I am shocked that I wasn't auto admitted!

[JusticeHarlan]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

If you have two above-median numbers and don't get in, it's probably not because of YP.

What happens to those two numbers if you remove ED applicants? Just curious.

Do people here think other schools will switch to UVA's rolling ED program next cycle?

[thickfreakness]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

If you have two above-median numbers and don't get in, it's probably not because of YP.

What happens to those two numbers if you remove ED applicants? Just curious.

Do people here think other schools will switch to UVA's rolling ED program next cycle?

I'm sure some schools will start doing that. It seems to have worked for UVA thus far, I guess we'll really see how effective it is when the new class medians roll out next fall.

[5ky]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

That's grossly misleading. You're only counting the applicants who have had decisions made on their files. There are many more applicants still waiting to hear back that I bet will be WLed.

[showNprove]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

That's grossly misleading. You're only counting the applicants who have had decisions made on their files. There are many more applicants still waiting to hear back that I bet will be WLed.

That's exactly why I included last year's acceptance rate right next to it. Even if the rate falls down to last year's end rate, it's still a high percentage of acceptances.

[CardinalRules]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

That's grossly misleading. You're only counting the applicants who have had decisions made on their files. There are many more applicants still waiting to hear back that I bet will be WLed.

That's exactly why I included last year's acceptance rate right next to it. Even if the rate falls down to last year's end rate, it's still a high percentage of acceptances.

Like the previous poster, I suspect that a significant segment of that percentage was ED.

[stratocophic]

So far this cycle, Virginia has accepted 93% of all applicants with both numbers at or above the medians. Last year, they accepted about 75%.

That's grossly misleading. You're only counting the applicants who have had decisions made on their files. There are many more applicants still waiting to hear back that I bet will be WLed.

That's exactly why I included last year's acceptance rate right next to it. Even if the rate falls down to last year's end rate, it's still a high percentage of acceptances.

Like the previous poster, I suspect that a significant segment of that percentage was ED.

Why would someone with numbers above both medians ED and lose any shot at big $$$? Maybe if they're UVa or bust, but it can't be that common to just hate money... can it?

[CardinalRules]

Why would someone with numbers above both medians ED and lose any shot at big $$$? Maybe if they're UVa or bust, but it can't be that common to just hate money... can it?

I see your point, but Virginia does seem to be one of those special schools that attracts a certain number of people who might be able to secure acceptances at higher-ranked institution but simply prefer to spend three years here.

Also, there's a difference between being slightly over the medians and being significantly over the 75ths. YP usually concerns the latter category.

[stratocophic]

Why would someone with numbers above both medians ED and lose any shot at big $$$? Maybe if they're UVa or bust, but it can't be that common to just hate money... can it?

I see your point, but Virginia does seem to be one of those special schools that attracts a certain number of people who might be able to secure acceptances at higher-ranked institution but simply prefer to spend three years here.

Also, there's a difference between being slightly over the medians and being significantly over the 75ths. YP usually concerns the latter category.

Very true, Virginia's culture is unique and would play a relatively significant role in decision making for many. Still, even slightly over both of UVa's medians is Berkeley/Stanford range and makes at least one of CCN a relatively sure thing (we're talking a 170-172 with 3.86-3.9). Not a UVa troll, just not sure that the ED change isn't shaking things up a bit more (and in a different way) than people predicted.

[im_blue]

Why would someone with numbers above both medians ED and lose any shot at big $$$? Maybe if they're UVa or bust, but it can't be that common to just hate money... can it?

I see your point, but Virginia does seem to be one of those special schools that attracts a certain number of people who might be able to secure acceptances at higher-ranked institution but simply prefer to spend three years here.

Also, there's a difference between being slightly over the medians and being significantly over the 75ths. YP usually concerns the latter category.

Very true, Virginia's culture is unique and would play a relatively significant role in decision making for many. Still, even slightly over both of UVa's medians is Berkeley/Stanford range and makes at least one of CCN a relatively sure thing (we're talking a 170-172 with 3.86-3.9). Not a UVa troll, just not sure that the ED change isn't shaking things up a bit more (and in a different way) than people predicted.

Yeah just hitting both UVA medians at 3.85/170 would give you pretty good chances at NYU, and 1 more LSAT point would put you in the running for CC.

[jawsthegreat]

Why would someone with numbers above both medians ED and lose any shot at big $$$? Maybe if they're UVa or bust, but it can't be that common to just hate money... can it?

I see your point, but Virginia does seem to be one of those special schools that attracts a certain number of people who might be able to secure acceptances at higher-ranked institution but simply prefer to spend three years here.

Also, there's a difference between being slightly over the medians and being significantly over the 75ths. YP usually concerns the latter category.

I would be one of those people.