Teflon_Don wrote:Is 105k at UVA or 60-75k at Chicago/NYU better to approach Berkeley with??
+1 I don't know how to negotiate with berk since they do matching and they only take one offer. No negotiating apparently.
Teflon_Don wrote:Is 105k at UVA or 60-75k at Chicago/NYU better to approach Berkeley with??
I am not urging you to be reckless. If that's what Berk says, then you should factor that into your risk assessment of various options.twinkletoes16 wrote:Teflon_Don wrote:Is 105k at UVA or 60-75k at Chicago/NYU better to approach Berkeley with??
+1 I don't know how to negotiate with berk since they do matching and they only take one offer. No negotiating apparently.
To the second bolded: hell no. What would be the reason to give them, ready made, their response to your request, as well as evidence, ready-made, that you're likely to go to their school anyway whether they give you what you want or not. Who goes to an "inferior school?"champs03 wrote:Couple of questions for you guys,
When negotiating scholarships, should you include the offers from other schools in your first correspondence?
Also, should you include all offers you have received even if it is from an inferior school? And should you address that yes you know it is an inferior school but any help they can give would be great?
Thanks for the help!
Not that I know of. And no school is not worth negotiating with.divster wrote:I guess what I meant was, is CLS one of those handful of schools that does make a distinction and thus would not be worth negotiating with.wisteria wrote:Read my posts above and stop using the terms "need-based" and "merit-based."manofjustice wrote:manofjustice wrote:
To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.
There is talk over on the Columbia thread that they don't give any merit aid after the offer you are given at the time of admittance. They do accept requests for "need-based aid" though. Does anyone have CLS specific knowledge about this? Is there just one pool of money for them but they refuse to give it out as "merit-based-aid"?
I mentioned that I had other offers, but named neither the schools nor the amountschamps03 wrote:When negotiating scholarships, should you include the offers from other schools in your first correspondence?
Also, should you include all offers you have received even if it is from an inferior school? And should you address that yes you know it is an inferior school but any help they can give would be great?
Thanks for the help!
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This is about as accurate as your knowledge of economics - aka not at all.manofjustice wrote:
To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.
Every single student this cycle will get a scholarship offer, because the lower-tier schools will be giving nearly every one of their admitted students scholarships. Only decline to name the schools and the amounts if the schools and the amounts are more than one rank below. That way, you at least benefit from the ambiguity ("maybe it's a school just one rank below?" the admissions dean might think).dingbat wrote:I mentioned that I had other offers, but named neither the schools nor the amountschamps03 wrote:When negotiating scholarships, should you include the offers from other schools in your first correspondence?
Also, should you include all offers you have received even if it is from an inferior school? And should you address that yes you know it is an inferior school but any help they can give would be great?
Thanks for the help!
Dingbat, shut up. This is an on-topic thread for the purpose of advising 0Ls, not the lounge where we bicker and debate, and my scholarship offers up and down the rankings last cycle would make you shit your pants. So I sure as hell know what I am talking about.dingbat wrote:This is about as accurate as your knowledge of economics - aka not at all.manofjustice wrote:
To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.
It's a myth that schools don't give out need aid, or that there's no distinction, but this is simply not true. While details vary from school to school, quite a few give genuine need aid.
However, I'm fairly certain that any need aid will be adjusted to take into consideration any merit aid you receive (no double-dipping).
I don't plan on debating, but there is absolutely a difference between "merit" and "need".manofjustice wrote:Dingbat, shut up. This is an on-topic thread for the purpose of advising 0Ls, not the lounge where we bicker and debate, and my scholarship offers up and down the rankings last cycle, with my numbers, would make you shit your pants, so I sure as hell know what I am talking about.dingbat wrote:This is about as accurate as your knowledge of economics - aka not at all.manofjustice wrote:
To the first bolded: there is no such thing as "merit" and "need"--no actual distinction beyond a made-up name--except at a handful of schools. But even at those schools the financial aid office does what the dean of admissions says.
It's a myth that schools don't give out need aid, or that there's no distinction, but this is simply not true. While details vary from school to school, quite a few give genuine need aid.
However, I'm fairly certain that any need aid will be adjusted to take into consideration any merit aid you receive (no double-dipping).
At the very least give them enough time to make an offer (if it's been a month since your acceptance, it's fairly safe to assume you're not getting one without asking)az21833 wrote:how do we negotiate? just email the admissions bucket list? or the director of admissions? or finaid?
is it better to wait until you get an initial offer from the school or proactively address?
has anybody started negotiating this cycle yet and has anybody been successful yet?
thank you. az.
Thanks for the help, should I say something along the lines of "if given a scholarship it will confirm my enrollment at your school"?manofjustice wrote:To the second bolded: hell no. What would be the reason to give them, ready made, their response to your request, as well as evidence, ready-made, that you're likely to go to their school anyway whether they give you what you want or not. Who goes to an "inferior school?"champs03 wrote:Couple of questions for you guys,
When negotiating scholarships, should you include the offers from other schools in your first correspondence?
Also, should you include all offers you have received even if it is from an inferior school? And should you address that yes you know it is an inferior school but any help they can give would be great?
Thanks for the help!
To the first bolded: you want to include offers that you can credibly argue you will take. I touched on this above. Jobs, jobs, jobs and debt, debt, debt. That's the formula for turning an "inferior school with a great scholarship" into a "peer school." Fact is, GW with a scholarship is a peer school to Georgetown with none. NYU with a scholarship is a peer school to Columbia with none. Jobs, jobs, jobs and debt, debt, debt.
When the admissions dean says "but we have better job numbers." It's still "jobs, jobs, jobs and debt, debt, debt." You focus on the jobs that pay enough to service debt--big law--and note how far the number strays from 100%.
And then, you can add "gpa, gpa, gpa." There is no way around it: your GPA will probably be a little better at a lower-ranked school than at a higher-ranked school. There is some empirical reason to suspect that the career benefit to a higher-ranked school is offset to a significant extent by students earning a higher GPA at a lower-ranked school, with respect to a student who has a choice between the two. The single most important determinate of career earnings for most schools is law school GPA, not the rank of the law school, above a certain rank of law school.
You mostly are in charge of your destiny, not the admissions office of a school that refuses to recognize the financial distress of its applicants and graduates.
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No because they'll give you 5 grand and call it a day. High-ball your initial request and say "if given this scholarship I will submit my deposit." Ideally you are asking them to match an offer at a "peer" school or a school a rank-below, so you'd say something like "if your school is able to match this other schools offer, I will submit my deposit." As to how to negotiations with offers from schools of lower ranks, see above. If another school comes through late with a higher offer, you can just burn your deposit.champs03 wrote:Thanks for the help, should I say something along the lines of "if given a scholarship it will confirm my enrollment at your school"?manofjustice wrote:To the second bolded: hell no. What would be the reason to give them, ready made, their response to your request, as well as evidence, ready-made, that you're likely to go to their school anyway whether they give you what you want or not. Who goes to an "inferior school?"champs03 wrote:Couple of questions for you guys,
When negotiating scholarships, should you include the offers from other schools in your first correspondence?
Also, should you include all offers you have received even if it is from an inferior school? And should you address that yes you know it is an inferior school but any help they can give would be great?
Thanks for the help!
To the first bolded: you want to include offers that you can credibly argue you will take. I touched on this above. Jobs, jobs, jobs and debt, debt, debt. That's the formula for turning an "inferior school with a great scholarship" into a "peer school." Fact is, GW with a scholarship is a peer school to Georgetown with none. NYU with a scholarship is a peer school to Columbia with none. Jobs, jobs, jobs and debt, debt, debt.
When the admissions dean says "but we have better job numbers." It's still "jobs, jobs, jobs and debt, debt, debt." You focus on the jobs that pay enough to service debt--big law--and note how far the number strays from 100%.
And then, you can add "gpa, gpa, gpa." There is no way around it: your GPA will probably be a little better at a lower-ranked school than at a higher-ranked school. There is some empirical reason to suspect that the career benefit to a higher-ranked school is offset to a significant extent by students earning a higher GPA at a lower-ranked school, with respect to a student who has a choice between the two. The single most important determinate of career earnings for most schools is law school GPA, not the rank of the law school, above a certain rank of law school.
You mostly are in charge of your destiny, not the admissions office of a school that refuses to recognize the financial distress of its applicants and graduates.
Recommend writing more.dingbat wrote:At the very least give them enough time to make an offer (if it's been a month since your acceptance, it's fairly safe to assume you're not getting one without asking)az21833 wrote:how do we negotiate? just email the admissions bucket list? or the director of admissions? or finaid?
is it better to wait until you get an initial offer from the school or proactively address?
has anybody started negotiating this cycle yet and has anybody been successful yet?
thank you. az.
After that, it varies. Some schools/adcoms prefer to deal with everything over email, others might warrant a phone call.
Everyone will give different advice as to what worked for them, but just about everyone will tell you to be polite and direct. Don't be over-inclusive, there's no need to write 5 paragraphs as to why you, in particular, need more money. 2-3 lines will suffice. Also, it helps to know where you stand; if you're above both 75%s, then you'll probably need to convince them that you want to attend their school, while if you're below both 25%, you're basically throwing a hail mary and will need to tailor your approach accordingly
I think it is more like this. We are Rod Tidwell.mambar wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbwqeSV8Wc4Rolltide52 wrote:Has anyone tried just emailing this video into your school of choice? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FFaAs32aw6Q
I think this is the way to go when negotiating
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Privacymanofjustice wrote:Why did we get some post deletes?
I don't think it matters, but you can fit it into your narrativejoshuajsmith wrote:If one has already RSVP'd for an admitted student day, would it be better to wait to talk about $$$ after attending, or does it not really matter?
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