University of Washington School of Law c/o 2020 ::app cycle 2016/2017:: Forum

[S.Picquery]

What does it mean if my FAFSA didn't get in by Jan. 15th?

That your FinAid will be delayed.

[rozes]

Oh yes, UW is notoriously hard to get merit-based aid from. They're in a unique position where Seattle is such a desirable place to live that I believe they don't need to offer as much financial incentive as other schools in less glamorous cities. As I said, I have low expectations about admission, let alone getting aid if I do get in, but it would round out my application cycle nicely if I were to be accepted.

I understand this argument, but I don't think it explains why UW gives less aid relative to other public law schools. Schools like ASU, UC Davis, and UCLA are all public and offer great scholarships. I think the explanation may be that UW focuses less on an applicant's numbers, and more on things like diversity/financial need/public interest involvement than do other top public law schools. I'm sure they have a decent amount of funds, but it seems like they have a different approach to allocation.

They do care about those other things, but those other things don't change the raw amount of money available, which isn't very high. Trust me, my fellow classmates and I would say otherwise if there were abundant funds, because you can rest assured those scholarship funds would be distributed aggressively to bring in admits.

There isn't some kind of magical explanation for why UW gives less money. It's pretty simple: there is less money. The causes as to why there is less money could be myriad, as compared to the public schools you mentioned, whether it's alumni donations or adequate state support, or the university itself allocating more money to the law school, or any number of things, individually or together.

My theories aren't theories, they are straight from multiple public and private discussions my classmates and I have had with our admissions office every year when we complain about our scholarship needs. There isn't a lot of money. Whatever scholarships exists are distributed based on many factors, and yes, other factors than merit alone. You can read the gnashing of teeth by many applicants the past two cycles who were above 75s and got little or no aid. I point out to them that they probably didn't give a strong indication they would actually show up to UW, so why would Dean Le waste money on them in lieu of a guaranteed admit who is closer to median?

You seem to be putting a lot of faith in the transparency of the UW admissions office. Of course they're going to tell you, "we don't have a lot of money." That is a standard line used by many deans and admissions reps. The question you should be asking is whether or not UW has less scholarship money to offer than other public law schools, and, if so, why?

Either UW has significantly less money to offer than other public law schools, or they have a fundamentally different approach to scholarship allocation than their peers. I think the latter is a distinct possibility, due to the offering of the Gregoire/Gates Fellowships (often to those without strong profiles) and the fact that many overqualified applicants do not receive merit aid. I have seen no evidence to suggest that they have less funds than other public law schools to begin with.

I agree that UW would rather offer funds to those they deem likely to attend, but that alone doesn't explain why they have less money/don't offer merit aid to qualified applicants across the board, as their peers do.

Washington resident here. I can't speak concretely to the law school's funding situation specifically, but UW (and WA's higher ed institutions as a whole) have suffered from decreased state funding due to the recession's revenue shortfalls, thereby increasingly relying on tuition and fees to cover operating costs instead of state funds (http://opb.washington.edu/content/state ... nformation). Given that WA is nearly last in the nation in graduating HS seniors who attend college, they want to make it as cheap as possible for in-state students to do so (though it still remains very high relative to the rest of the country) — and given the funding shortfalls, that means that tuition fees are they charge are used to help offset those costs. The situation is getting better, but there's still only so much money earmarked for education, and a lot of K-12 initiatives have competing proposals as well.

I'm not a tax policy expert, but I believe that all of this stems from both 1) WA's lack of personal income taxes; and 2) the state's complete fascination with transportation and infrastructure projects that might not be the best ideas but suck up what few taxpayer dollars we have. It does mean, as one of you has said, that there is less money to go around for law students, especially given that they aren't really competing with anyone other than HYS, Seattle U, Gonzaga, and, to a much lesser extent, Lewis and Clark and Oregon. The money is therefore reserved for diversity purposes, or for those going into PI law (Gregoire/Gates).

[mcmand]

.......

[mcmand]

...

[TakeItToTrial]

I understand this argument, but I don't think it explains why UW gives less aid relative to other public law schools. Schools like ASU, UC Davis, and UCLA are all public and offer great scholarships. I think the explanation may be that UW focuses less on an applicant's numbers, and more on things like diversity/financial need/public interest involvement than do other top public law schools. I'm sure they have a decent amount of funds, but it seems like they have a different approach to allocation.

They do care about those other things, but those other things don't change the raw amount of money available, which isn't very high. Trust me, my fellow classmates and I would say otherwise if there were abundant funds, because you can rest assured those scholarship funds would be distributed aggressively to bring in admits.

There isn't some kind of magical explanation for why UW gives less money. It's pretty simple: there is less money. The causes as to why there is less money could be myriad, as compared to the public schools you mentioned, whether it's alumni donations or adequate state support, or the university itself allocating more money to the law school, or any number of things, individually or together.

My theories aren't theories, they are straight from multiple public and private discussions my classmates and I have had with our admissions office every year when we complain about our scholarship needs. There isn't a lot of money. Whatever scholarships exists are distributed based on many factors, and yes, other factors than merit alone. You can read the gnashing of teeth by many applicants the past two cycles who were above 75s and got little or no aid. I point out to them that they probably didn't give a strong indication they would actually show up to UW, so why would Dean Le waste money on them in lieu of a guaranteed admit who is closer to median?

You seem to be putting a lot of faith in the transparency of the UW admissions office. Of course they're going to tell you, "we don't have a lot of money." That is a standard line used by many deans and admissions reps. The question you should be asking is whether or not UW has less scholarship money to offer than other public law schools, and, if so, why?

Either UW has significantly less money to offer than other public law schools, or they have a fundamentally different approach to scholarship allocation than their peers. I think the latter is a distinct possibility, due to the offering of the Gregoire/Gates Fellowships (often to those without strong profiles) and the fact that many overqualified applicants do not receive merit aid. I have seen no evidence to suggest that they have less funds than other public law schools to begin with.

I agree that UW would rather offer funds to those they deem likely to attend, but that alone doesn't explain why they have less money/don't offer merit aid to qualified applicants across the board, as their peers do.

Washington resident here. I can't speak concretely to the law school's funding situation specifically, but UW (and WA's higher ed institutions as a whole) have suffered from decreased state funding due to the recession's revenue shortfalls, thereby increasingly relying on tuition and fees to cover operating costs instead of state funds (http://opb.washington.edu/content/state ... nformation). Given that WA is nearly last in the nation in graduating HS seniors who attend college, they want to make it as cheap as possible for in-state students to do so (though it still remains very high relative to the rest of the country) — and given the funding shortfalls, that means that tuition fees are they charge are used to help offset those costs. The situation is getting better, but there's still only so much money earmarked for education, and a lot of K-12 initiatives have competing proposals as well.

I'm not a tax policy expert, but I believe that all of this stems from both 1) WA's lack of personal income taxes; and 2) the state's complete fascination with transportation and infrastructure projects that might not be the best ideas but suck up what few taxpayer dollars we have. It does mean, as one of you has said, that there is less money to go around for law students, especially given that they aren't really competing with anyone other than HYS, Seattle U, Gonzaga, and, to a much lesser extent, Lewis and Clark and Oregon. The money is therefore reserved for diversity purposes, or for those going into PI law (Gregoire/Gates).

Thank you for adding additional nuance and undergirding my point that UW and WA generally have their own challenges that differ from other institutions. Money does go to people with high LSATs and GPAs (my classmates who had those stats can attest to this), just not quite as often or as much as those applicants with high LSATs and GPAs would like.[/quote]

What you both said makes a lot of sense. It sounds like the state of Washington is facing funding challenges, and UW has an approach to scholarship allocation that focuses on a range of factors, whereas most schools have a singular focus on merit. I am just curious why UW's approach to scholarship allocation seems abnormal, and I have a hard time accepting the claim, "UW Law doesn't have a lot of money to give," at face value.

[Stylnator]

Does UW do full tuition scholarships? If not that really affects my motivation to write this essay..

[Capt_Beatty]

Does UW do full tuition scholarships? If not that really affects my motivation to write this essay..

The past two pages of this thread might really hamper that motivation.

[Stylnator]

Does UW do full tuition scholarships? If not that really affects my motivation to write this essay..

The past two pages of this thread might really hamper that motivation.

I didn't see anything about full tuition? Just discussions on how difficult it is to receive aid. I just want to know if the opportunity even exists because I know some schools have a policy where they don't give full tuition (William & Mary for example)

[rozes]

Does UW do full tuition scholarships? If not that really affects my motivation to write this essay..

The past two pages of this thread might really hamper that motivation.

I didn't see anything about full tuition? Just discussions on how difficult it is to receive aid. I just want to know if the opportunity even exists because I know some schools have a policy where they don't give full tuition (William & Mary for example)

According to their 509 (https://www.law.washington.edu/admissio ... report.pdf), no full tuition, but 18 students received more than full tuition (Gregoires, maybe, if that summer stipend is considered?). With a 75th percentile aid amount of $14k (half scholly for in-state, about a 1/3 for OOS), it's tough to get a more substantial piece of that small pie.

[Capt_Beatty]

Does UW do full tuition scholarships? If not that really affects my motivation to write this essay..

The past two pages of this thread might really hamper that motivation.

I didn't see anything about full tuition? Just discussions on how difficult it is to receive aid. I just want to know if the opportunity even exists because I know some schools have a policy where they don't give full tuition (William & Mary for example)

I'm not sure how the Gates scholarship operates, but according to the latest ABA 509, 1/497 students received a full tuition scholarship, and 31/497 received more that a full tuition scholarship ( the gates scholars, I guess).

Ok so 5 Gates scholarships are awarded to the incoming 1L class 5x3=15. so 17/497 students have received a full or more, tuition scholarship (not gates related). This is for 1L 2L and 3L, and as we know additional scholarships are made available to rising 2L's and 3L's.

So I guess this doesn't really answer your question, but if you compare the ABA 509 (2016) of UW to let's say Davis, Wash. U, USC, UCLA, etc. the distribution of aid, whether it be partial or whole, is really lacking compared to these schools. But the potential for a full ride, maybe exists?

[Capt_Beatty]

Does UW do full tuition scholarships? If not that really affects my motivation to write this essay..

The past two pages of this thread might really hamper that motivation.

I didn't see anything about full tuition? Just discussions on how difficult it is to receive aid. I just want to know if the opportunity even exists because I know some schools have a policy where they don't give full tuition (William & Mary for example)

According to their 509 (https://www.law.washington.edu/admissio ... report.pdf), no full tuition, but 18 students received more than full tuition (Gregoires, maybe, if that summer stipend is considered?). With a 75th percentile aid amount of $14k (half scholly for in-state, about a 1/3 for OOS), it's tough to get a more substantial piece of that small pie.

You were looking at 2015's #'s, which is interesting, because the # of students receiving "more than full" went from 18 to 31, from 2015 to 2016.

[Sawtooth]

Does UW do full tuition scholarships? If not that really affects my motivation to write this essay..

This.

Largely due to other offers, I don't think I would really consider attending UW on anything less than a full-ride. Not really feeling writing an essay if that is not in the realm of possibility.

I visited the campus in December, and I asked someone in the admissions office about scholarships. They only talked about the Gates/Gregoire scholarships (which I thought odd considering I am clearly a white male) and a bunch of random outside scholarships. Based on some posts in this thread, it sounds like that might be about it.

[rozes]

Does UW do full tuition scholarships? If not that really affects my motivation to write this essay..

The past two pages of this thread might really hamper that motivation.

I didn't see anything about full tuition? Just discussions on how difficult it is to receive aid. I just want to know if the opportunity even exists because I know some schools have a policy where they don't give full tuition (William & Mary for example)

According to their 509 (https://www.law.washington.edu/admissio ... report.pdf), no full tuition, but 18 students received more than full tuition (Gregoires, maybe, if that summer stipend is considered?). With a 75th percentile aid amount of $14k (half scholly for in-state, about a 1/3 for OOS), it's tough to get a more substantial piece of that small pie.

You were looking at 2015's #'s, which is interesting, because the # of students receiving "more than full" went from 18 to 31, from 2015 to 2016.

Good call — didn't realize that. Looks like they bumped up scholly amounts a tad bit. Here's hoping the upward trend continues as the state's funding situation stabilizes.

[vho1791]

waitlisted

LSAT = 75
GPA<25

[redtalun]

Does UW do full tuition scholarships? If not that really affects my motivation to write this essay..

The past two pages of this thread might really hamper that motivation.

I didn't see anything about full tuition? Just discussions on how difficult it is to receive aid. I just want to know if the opportunity even exists because I know some schools have a policy where they don't give full tuition (William & Mary for example)

According to their 509 (https://www.law.washington.edu/admissio ... report.pdf), no full tuition, but 18 students received more than full tuition (Gregoires, maybe, if that summer stipend is considered?). With a 75th percentile aid amount of $14k (half scholly for in-state, about a 1/3 for OOS), it's tough to get a more substantial piece of that small pie.

You were looking at 2015's #'s, which is interesting, because the # of students receiving "more than full" went from 18 to 31, from 2015 to 2016.

Good call — didn't realize that. Looks like they bumped up scholly amounts a tad bit. Here's hoping the upward trend continues as the state's funding situation stabilizes.

If you weren't aware, the law school got a $50MM+ gift in 2014. Subsequent admitted classes have been seeing some of that $$$ in increased scholarship offers, which is why you see the aid #s ramping up. I think the 509 #s should stabilize following the 2017 report.

[S.Picquery]

WooHoo! I'm in! Let's hope for $$$$$

[Instrumental]

Awww yeah. Congrats

[S.Picquery]

I know that they don't have a ton of $$$ to hand out, so they want to parse through who really wants/needs it, but why do you need even more essays? I feel like this whole process has been demoralizing and essay-filled, and no one wants to talk about themselves that much.

[PDX4343]

I know that they don't have a ton of $$$ to hand out, so they want to parse through who really wants/needs it, but why do you need even more essays? I feel like this whole process has been demoralizing and essay-filled, and no one wants to talk about themselves that much.

It is really annoying, but like you said, I think they want to make us do that extra work so they don't have to consider people who aren't seriously thinking about attending.

[mcmand]

...

[cakewalk]

Hey all,

I'm planning to attend admitted students day and I'll be flying in Thursday from LA. I'm planning to get a hotel near the college and if anyone else is interested in splitting the room for Thursday and Friday let me know.

It looks like there are budget rooms for about $70/night which makes it pretty reasonable especially with the travel stipend.

[PattyKane88]

Hey all,

I'm planning to attend admitted students day and I'll be flying in Thursday from LA. I'm planning to get a hotel near the college and if anyone else is interested in splitting the room for Thursday and Friday let me know.

It looks like there are budget rooms for about $70/night which makes it pretty reasonable especially with the travel stipend.

What is the travel stipend for you UW? Thanks!

[cakewalk]

Hey all,

I'm planning to attend admitted students day and I'll be flying in Thursday from LA. I'm planning to get a hotel near the college and if anyone else is interested in splitting the room for Thursday and Friday let me know.

It looks like there are budget rooms for about $70/night which makes it pretty reasonable especially with the travel stipend.

What is the travel stipend for you UW? Thanks!

$250 to assist with travel costs for students traveling over 150 miles. It doesn't specify if it's for flight/gas only or if it can be used for hotel as well.

[connordalto]

Hey all,

I'm planning to attend admitted students day and I'll be flying in Thursday from LA. I'm planning to get a hotel near the college and if anyone else is interested in splitting the room for Thursday and Friday let me know.

It looks like there are budget rooms for about $70/night which makes it pretty reasonable especially with the travel stipend.

What is the travel stipend for you UW? Thanks!

$250 to assist with travel costs for students traveling over 150 miles. It doesn't specify if it's for flight/gas only or if it can be used for hotel as well.

Where did you find details on the stipend?

[connordalto]

Does anybody have any knowledge/experience of deferring admission for a year to get in-state tuition?