Harvard Law c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017) Forum

[curry1]

I would choose HLS over any other school with any scholly in a heartbeat. The fact is just that you can pay off your debt in two years anyway if you work in BigLaw.

lolwut

You could almost definitely pay off sticker h in two years. No one does it but with starting big law salary at 180 you could live on 60k a year and get really close if not done in two. If you were willing to live on even less that would get faster still.
That requires you to work like you're in big law and live like you never went to law school, but it's doable if you really want your debt gone asap

are you accounting for taxes and COL while working?

Do people on this board really not understand that 180k + bonus is more like 110k after taxes? Yes, biglaw salaries go up after that, but not dramatically in the first few years. And that a low standard of living in the likely cities people would be living in (New York/SF/DC) is 50k a year, if you're pushing it? And that just the interest on 300k is over 20k per annum? If one were to take out 300k it would take living like a miser for 5/6 years to pay the debt off. That doesn't mean H is a bad deal, just that people should stop telling themselves fairy tales about how easy debt is to pay off/how much biglaw pays.

[Monday]

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[dddddd90]

Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

Yep, I feel like that's the real dilemma.

[dddddd90]

I would choose HLS over any other school with any scholly in a heartbeat. The fact is just that you can pay off your debt in two years anyway if you work in BigLaw.

lolwut

You could almost definitely pay off sticker h in two years. No one does it but with starting big law salary at 180 you could live on 60k a year and get really close if not done in two. If you were willing to live on even less that would get faster still.
That requires you to work like you're in big law and live like you never went to law school, but it's doable if you really want your debt gone asap

are you accounting for taxes and COL while working?

Do people on this board really not understand that 180k + bonus is more like 110k after taxes? Yes, biglaw salaries go up after that, but not dramatically in the first few years. And that a low standard of living in the likely cities people would be living in (New York/SF/DC) is 50k a year, if you're pushing it? And that just the interest on 300k is over 20k per annum? If one were to take out 300k it would take living like a miser for 5/6 years to pay the debt off. That doesn't mean H is a bad deal, just that people should stop telling themselves fairy tales about how easy debt is to pay off/how much biglaw pays.

Yup. 180 --> 115 after taxes in NYC. And factor in that the median stint at BigLaw is 3-5 yrs and those 3-5 yrs might be the highest earning years of the first decade (or perhaps the entirety) of your career.

[dddddd90]

Also, it's not 180 plus bonus. the 180 includes the bonus. source: abovethelaw

[Pozzo]

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[Smc1994]

Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

[dddddd90]

Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

Yep, I feel like that's the real dilemma.

Why anyone would feel the need to explain that for their entire life is beyond me.

I think the hypothetical interlocutor is more of an internal voice.

[Pozzo]

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[dddddd90]

Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

Now I can pay of H at sticker in 18 months.

+1

[Smc1994]

Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

Now I can pay of H at sticker in 18 months.

I don't know if you heard, but rumor is that Paul Weiss will pay off all of your debt, and pay for you to go to business school. Srs

[curry1]

Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

Now I can pay of H at sticker in 18 months.

(TLS math)

[lawlzschool]

I would choose HLS over any other school with any scholly in a heartbeat. The fact is just that you can pay off your debt in two years anyway if you work in BigLaw.

lolwut

You could almost definitely pay off sticker h in two years. No one does it but with starting big law salary at 180 you could live on 60k a year and get really close if not done in two. If you were willing to live on even less that would get faster still.
That requires you to work like you're in big law and live like you never went to law school, but it's doable if you really want your debt gone asap

are you accounting for taxes and COL while working?

Do people on this board really not understand that 180k + bonus is more like 110k after taxes? Yes, biglaw salaries go up after that, but not dramatically in the first few years. And that a low standard of living in the likely cities people would be living in (New York/SF/DC) is 50k a year, if you're pushing it? And that just the interest on 300k is over 20k per annum? If one were to take out 300k it would take living like a miser for 5/6 years to pay the debt off. That doesn't mean H is a bad deal, just that people should stop telling themselves fairy tales about how easy debt is to pay off/how much biglaw pays.

YES THIS

i think a lot of prior posters are forgetting interest on unsubsidized loans! can't do subsidized in grad school...

also anecdotally i work in house with a lot of lawyers. a bunch worked in big law first. one in particular said that he is STILL paying his debt down (from nu). it's been something like 15-20 years. shit happens, other bills are more pressing, INTEREST ACCRUES, taxes etc etc etc.

[Monday]

.

[Smc1994]

Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

This concern would make sense only if lawyers stood around whipping out and comparing their diplomas rather than actual work product and business brought into the firm. Psst, they don't. So in the end, going after 300k debt is more of a personal preference ("I want to drop the H-bomb") and in that case, you do you but spare us the pretense of logic.

Want to whip our diplomas out and see whose is bigger?

[Rigo]

Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

On the flip side you end up in generic bigLaw after taking Harvard and you realize you could have been in the exact same position but without a big debt noose around your neck.

[forum_user]

Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

Now I can pay of H at sticker in 18 months.

(TLS math)

This is actually possible if you live in West Virginia and commute via rowboat!

[OnlyHumean]

Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

I think you may have a point here. Though it often seems like the board has a tendency to treat sentiments like that in two ways:
1. You're just prestige whoring (I must admit I'm still uncertain as to why wanting prestige is a negative thing)
2. Assuming that because going to HLS might turn out to have no financial advantage over other schools (i.e. you'd just get the same biglaw job making the same amount of money if you went to school x instead) that it has no additional value.

That said, I don't think it's currently the point of contention. The argument at hand seems to be more focused on what the actual cost of full sticker is at HLS.

[dddddd90]

Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

This concern would make sense only if lawyers stood around whipping out and comparing their diplomas rather than actual work product and business brought into the firm. Psst, they don't. So in the end, going after 300k debt is more of a personal preference ("I want to drop the H-bomb") and in that case, you do you but spare us the pretense of logic.

Want to whip our diplomas out and see whose is bigger?

All sass aside this is ACTUALLY what is at issue in the decision for most people deciding between sticker at a t6 and $$$ at a lower t14, and plenty opt for "size matters"

[Smc1994]

Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

On the flip side you end up in generic bigLaw after taking Harvard and you realize you could have been in the exact same position but without a big debt noose around your neck.

Everyone wears a debt noose in NYC. Don't you read Vogue?

[bloomsday]

.

[curry1]

Can I chime in? Now, people might call me illogical/stupid/don't be a lawyer, but here is my take on it: We picked to become attorneys, right? We chose our career. We hope not to change it and we are going to school and paying a good amount of money, as well as spending time, on it. You have one life. Wouldn't you want to go to the best school possible? Even if at sticker? Your diploma will stick with you for the rest of your life. You will be spending the next 60 years of your life explaining to your employers/kids/friends that "Oh, I could've went into Harvard and got in, but I chose to go to University of Virginia as it was just cheaper and made more sense."

I don't know guys, it's just I feel like we have one shot at this for something that remains with us our whole career and life.

I think you may have a point here. Though it often seems like the board has a tendency to treat sentiments like that in two ways:
1. You're just prestige whoring (I must admit I'm still uncertain as to why wanting prestige is a negative thing)
2. Assuming that because going to HLS might turn out to have no financial advantage over other schools (i.e. you'd just get the same biglaw job making the same amount of money if you went to school x instead) that it has no additional value.

That said, I don't think it's currently the point of contention. The argument at hand seems to be more focused on what the actual cost of full sticker is at HLS.

yep, people seem to assume that the school brand goes away the day you start at x firm, but it doesn't.

[Future Ex-Engineer]

Just wanted to remind everyone not to forget that H hasn't given us any JS1s or 2s in far too long.

Sad!

[Smc1994]

Just adding to the salary datapoint; Williams and Connolley in DC starts first year associates at 200

Now I can pay of H at sticker in 18 months.

(TLS math)

This is actually possible if you live in West Virginia and commute via rowboat!

Even better if you can sleep in your rowboat!

Poor man's tesla camper. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016 ... mper-mode/

[curry1]

Just wanted to remind everyone not to forget that H hasn't given us any JS1s or 2s in far too long.

Sad!

Together, we will MHGA.