Yale c/o 2020 Applicants (2016-2017) Forum

[HonestlyThough]

To presume I am from a "privileged" background just because of not being a URM only underscores my point

In my experience, only privileged people make the arguments you are making.

Maybe it's time to realize that the extent of your experience is not supreme

everyone is privileged along some planes and not along others. I'm not gonna play oppression olympics and analyze how those tally up, but you should consider exploring your privileges.

[seeprybyrun]

what if I promised yall that 0% of people in this thread are changing their minds, regardless of what you say

I think we need more sprinklings of love and light.

[potterotter]

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[law-school-3458]

Your initial question was hyperbolic ("have any non-URMs been admitted?", emphasis added) and appears to belie a false assumption that Yale admits a disproportionate number of URMs. As I presented in my earlier post, the data do not support that assumption: the proportion of URMs admitted to YLS appears to track well with the proportion of URMs in the country's population.

This doesn't necessarily establish that the number of URMs admitted is not disproportionate. One might plausibly argue that the relevant population is not the country's population as a whole, but the population of qualified law school applicants. (It's not clear why, for example, a demographic with 25% of the American population should therefore have 25% of the spots at Yale Law School.)

But how would you define "qualified law school applicants"? If the answer is purely/mostly numerical, and there are reasons to think that certain races have an advantage in that regard, shouldn't the ad com consider judging applicants who had to fight through not as favorable situations differently from applicants who didn't?

Maybe. But this seems to involve a whole lot of guesswork. In order to compare a disadvantaged applicant to a less-disadvantaged applicant, we might frame the question in terms of something like: "If not for X, Y, Z disadvantages, how would this applicant have performed?" It seems like numerical "boosts" align with this way of thinking about the question, since they function as a sort of compensation for disadvantages (e.g. less money or time for test prep, so boost your score to represent what you would have got if you had the time/money). But the problem is that there is no real way to answer that question with any sort of precision. We don't really have any way of knowing how the applicant would have performed if not for the disadvantages.

[pretzeltime]

[potterotter]

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[seeprybyrun]

Your initial question was hyperbolic ("have any non-URMs been admitted?", emphasis added) and appears to belie a false assumption that Yale admits a disproportionate number of URMs. As I presented in my earlier post, the data do not support that assumption: the proportion of URMs admitted to YLS appears to track well with the proportion of URMs in the country's population.

This doesn't necessarily establish that the number of URMs admitted is not disproportionate. One might plausibly argue that the relevant population is not the country's population as a whole, but the population of qualified law school applicants. (It's not clear why, for example, a demographic with 25% of the American population should therefore have 25% of the spots at Yale Law School.)

But how would you define "qualified law school applicants"? If the answer is purely/mostly numerical, and there are reasons to think that certain races have an advantage in that regard, shouldn't the ad com consider judging applicants who had to fight through not as favorable situations differently from applicants who didn't?

Maybe. But this seems to involve a whole lot of guesswork. In order to compare a disadvantaged applicant to a less-disadvantaged applicant, we might frame the question in terms of something like: "If not for X, Y, Z disadvantages, how would this applicant have performed?" It seems like numerical "boosts" align with this way of thinking about the question, since they function as a sort of compensation for disadvantages (e.g. less money or time for test prep, so boost your score to represent what you would have got if you had the time/money). But the problem is that there is no real way to answer that question with any sort of precision. We don't really have any way of knowing how the applicant would have performed if not for the disadvantages.

I think that's where Asha's and the faculty's review and best judgment come into play.

[whatislife]

But how would you define "qualified law school applicants"? If the answer is purely/mostly numerical, and there are reasons to think that certain races have an advantage in that regard, shouldn't the ad com consider judging applicants who had to fight through not as favorable situations differently from applicants who didn't?

Maybe. But this seems to involve a whole lot of guesswork. In order to compare a disadvantaged applicant to a less-disadvantaged applicant, we might frame the question in terms of something like: "If not for X, Y, Z disadvantages, how would this applicant have performed?" It seems like numerical "boosts" align with this way of thinking about the question, since they function as a sort of compensation for disadvantages (e.g. less money or time for test prep, so boost your score to represent what you would have got if you had the time/money). But the problem is that there is no real way to answer that question with any sort of precision. We don't really have any way of knowing how the applicant would have performed if not for the disadvantages.

I personally don't think it's about calculating how much a given circumstance affected your scores and giving you a boost accordingly. Perhaps for other schools, but for Yale specifically they emphasized that once an applicant is in a certain range it's no longer as much about their numbers, and more about what they would add to the community. From this perspective, disadvantages and how an applicant dealt with them would matter in terms of how it reflects on the applicant's maturity, empathy etc.

[seeprybyrun]

I personally don't think it's about calculating how much a given circumstance affected your scores and giving you a boost accordingly. Perhaps for other schools, but for Yale specifically they emphasized that once an applicant is in a certain range it's no longer as much about their numbers, and more about what they would add to the community. From this perspective, disadvantages and how an applicant dealt with them would matter in terms of how it reflects on the applicant's maturity, empathy etc.

Exactamundo

[A. Nony Mouse]

Can this ridiculous poorly spelled conversation go on the appropriate URM thread instead of breaking the rules by having it here?

Great. Glad we agree.

Yeah, discussion of the merits (or lack thereof) of the URM boost is not allowed in this sub forum (it's only allowed in a dedicated thread in the lounge). Any further discussion of it will merit a ban (and I don't care if it's because you haven't read down to this post yet; the discussion is against TLS rules). Back to other kinds of application angst, please.

[bartlettadmin]

Besides the fairly offensive "you only got in because you're an URM" implications of the original comment this whole thing is annoying because it sounds like y'all feel like an URM somehow stole *your* Yale spot. Be a little more entitled guys. Statistically, no ones getting into Yale ok URM or not. So it's not like someone else getting in is somehow at your expense.

banned for continuing URM boost discussion

[dyebri]

Besides the fairly offensive "you only got in because you're an URM" implications of the original comment this whole thing is annoying because it sounds like y'all feel like an URM somehow stole *your* Yale spot. Be a little more entitled guys. Statistically, no ones getting into Yale ok URM or not. So it's not like someone else getting in is somehow at your expense.

The argument is Maybe no one gets into Yale because urms take their spot

banned for continuing URM boost discussion

[pretzeltime]

Can this ridiculous poorly spelled conversation go on the appropriate URM thread instead of breaking the rules by having it here?

Great. Glad we agree.

Yeah, discussion of the merits (or lack thereof) of the URM boost is not allowed in this sub forum (it's only allowed in a dedicated thread in the lounge). Any further discussion of it will merit a ban (and I don't care if it's because you haven't read down to this post yet; the discussion is against TLS rules). Back to other kinds of application angst, please.

[KateMcKitten]

Can this ridiculous poorly spelled conversation go on the appropriate URM thread instead of breaking the rules by having it here?

Great. Glad we agree.

Yeah, discussion of the merits (or lack thereof) of the URM boost is not allowed in this sub forum (it's only allowed in a dedicated thread in the lounge). Any further discussion of it will merit a ban (and I don't care if it's because you haven't read down to this post yet; the discussion is against TLS rules). Back to other kinds of application angst, please.

My wife Sarah ilysm bby thank you for visiting us plebs and telling us to stfu

[MrJD2020]

and to think this thread almost made it through the whole cycle without the good ol URM conversation

yeah I thought the Columbia-interviews-URMs-to-see-if-they-really-are-URMS scandal would have been enough

OK, you can't just make that comment and leave us hanging. EXPLAIN


Yes, I was interviewed by Columbia.

[dietcoke1]

and to think this thread almost made it through the whole cycle without the good ol URM conversation

yeah I thought the Columbia-interviews-URMs-to-see-if-they-really-are-URMS scandal would have been enough

OK, you can't just make that comment and leave us hanging. EXPLAIN


Yes, I was interviewed by Columbia.

unsubstantiated claims that Columbia interviewed people to make sure they weren't lying about being URMs.

[+] Spoiler

fake news

[Smc1994]

Well, now that we've reached a consensus on this topic, can we go back to baseless speculation about WLs?

[AndromedaGalaxy]

In application angst news, the trickle of acceptances did in fact resume several hours after YLS admissions would have gotten the last notices of declined acceptances from people accepting the Rubenstein at Chicago instead. A coincidence, or was my theory a promising lead in unraveling the whole underlying logic of how it works in there? Did I solve it?

Maybe I won't get in to Yale but Asha will hire me into their admissions office anyway. I'm full of schemes. For instance, the admissions office can make all final decisions based on faculty review scores, but still exert enormous control over the final median and quartile values by setting up distinct batches of applications for faculty review and packing numerically-similar applicants into batches like voters into districts.

[Smc1994]

In application angst news, the trickle of acceptances did in fact resume several hours after YLS admissions would have gotten the last notices of declined acceptances from people accepting the Rubenstein at Chicago instead. A coincidence, or was my theory a promising lead in unraveling the whole underlying logic of how it works in there? Did I solve it?

Maybe I won't get in to Yale but Asha will hire me into their admissions office anyway. I'm full of schemes. For instance, the admissions office can make all final decisions based on faculty review scores, but still exert enormous control over the final median and quartile values by setting up distinct batches of applications for faculty review and packing numerically-similar applicants into batches like voters into districts.

Sorry, but Asha's time in the FBI set a very high standard for YLS secrecy. She's going to have to kill you now.

[AndromedaGalaxy]

In application angst news, the trickle of acceptances did in fact resume several hours after YLS admissions would have gotten the last notices of declined acceptances from people accepting the Rubenstein at Chicago instead. A coincidence, or was my theory a promising lead in unraveling the whole underlying logic of how it works in there? Did I solve it?

Maybe I won't get in to Yale but Asha will hire me into their admissions office anyway. I'm full of schemes. For instance, the admissions office can make all final decisions based on faculty review scores, but still exert enormous control over the final median and quartile values by setting up distinct batches of applications for faculty review and packing numerically-similar applicants into batches like voters into districts.

Sorry, but Asha's time in the FBI set a very high standard for YLS secrecy. She's going to have to kill you now.

I'll try to hide, but she can see the schemes behind my eyes.

[Smc1994]

In application angst news, the trickle of acceptances did in fact resume several hours after YLS admissions would have gotten the last notices of declined acceptances from people accepting the Rubenstein at Chicago instead. A coincidence, or was my theory a promising lead in unraveling the whole underlying logic of how it works in there? Did I solve it?

Maybe I won't get in to Yale but Asha will hire me into their admissions office anyway. I'm full of schemes. For instance, the admissions office can make all final decisions based on faculty review scores, but still exert enormous control over the final median and quartile values by setting up distinct batches of applications for faculty review and packing numerically-similar applicants into batches like voters into districts.

Sorry, but Asha's time in the FBI set a very high standard for YLS secrecy. She's going to have to kill you now.

I'll try to hide, but she can see the schemes behind my eyes.

Oh please, even I can find you.

[AndromedaGalaxy]

Oh please, even I can find you.

Light pollution is my last refuge...

[Smc1994]

Oh please, even I can find you.

Light pollution is my last refuge...

It may help to switch to more protective headgear.

[AndromedaGalaxy]

Oh please, even I can find you.

Light pollution is my last refuge...

It may help to switch to more protective headgear.

No tinfoil hat can shield me from the waitlist or rejection that is coming, if Asha is merciful, later this evening.

[ayylmao]

Kind of ridiculous that some of us haven't heard yet.