c/o 2019 LGBTQ Applicants (2015-2016) Forum

monceau · Post by **monceau** » Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:37 pm

I was wondering when this thread would pop up but didn't find it until now!

Is anyone else making the LGBTQ+ thing a central part of their personal statements? I'm kind of stringing together a coming out story with a desire to do LGBT civil rights work (some biglaw firms let you take a deduction in billable hours to do pro-bono LGBT cases). I'm pretty close to being done with a rough draft of it so if anyone here would be willing to give me some critiques once it's done I can PM it to you

ltbenn · Post by **ltbenn** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:26 am

monceau wrote:I was wondering when this thread would pop up but didn't find it until now!

Is anyone else making the LGBTQ+ thing a central part of their personal statements? I'm kind of stringing together a coming out story with a desire to do LGBT civil rights work (some biglaw firms let you take a deduction in billable hours to do pro-bono LGBT cases). I'm pretty close to being done with a rough draft of it so if anyone here would be willing to give me some critiques once it's done I can PM it to you

I'd be happy to!

laurossman · Post by **laurossman** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 11:57 am

I've been really curious to know how LGBTQ Applicants indicate that they're LGBT or Q. I haven't seen space on any applications, and I definitely think it should be counted as URM status. So I presume you have to use your PS or an optional essay to talk about it? There are also schools who don't have the diversity essay option, and the optional essay is something like "tell us about some of your positive qualities." IDK I would just find it kind of annoying, especially if you didn't want to use essay space on that topic, but do want the school to know.

Sincerely,
-An ally

laurossman · Post by **laurossman** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:04 pm

laurossman wrote:I've been really curious to know how LGBTQ Applicants indicate that they're LGBT or Q. I haven't seen space on any applications, and I definitely think it should be counted as URM status. So I presume you have to use your PS or an optional essay to talk about it? There are also schools who don't have the diversity essay option, and the optional essay is something like "tell us about some of your positive qualities." IDK I would just find it kind of annoying, especially if you didn't want to use essay space on that topic, but do want the school to know.

Sincerely,
-An ally

However, on second thought, I feel like a lot of people would abuse it if there was an outright question regarding sexual orientation. What's the school gonna do, check into who you sleep with? Maybe it would be better if ALL schools (and I don't think this is overreaching in today's world) had an optional LGBTQ essay where you can talk briefly about your experience as a member of the community. It would be much harder, and people would be less willing, to fake that kind of response.

Muiraquita · Post by **Muiraquita** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:11 pm

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gobears!! · Post by **gobears!!** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:14 pm

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gobears!! · Post by **gobears!!** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:14 pm

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darlenealderson · Post by **darlenealderson** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 12:19 pm

Personally, I checked the boxes but didn't supply a DS or touch on it in my essays for a few reasons, including the fact that I'm not really out and I'm still trying to figure out navigating my way into the community...it would have been dishonest not to check the box, but it wasn't something I felt comfortable writing a statement about. I think it's a personal choice, and for someone to check the box without actually identifying as LGBTQ+ would be really unethical (and as such I'd bet there are probably some more unethical things going on in that application if not in the applicants' future). I would have appreciated a separate space for a few sentences on it after checking those boxes, just to explain both which letter best fits me in that acronym and to say why I didn't feel the need to write a DS relating to being LGBTQ+, but I also think the schools are probably right to assume that for those whom their gender identity or sexual orientation has been a defining part of their growth and experiences they probably would write a DS on the subject.

OLitch · Post by **OLitch** » Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:10 pm

darlenealderson wrote:Personally, I checked the boxes but didn't supply a DS or touch on it in my essays for a few reasons, including the fact that I'm not really out and I'm still trying to figure out navigating my way into the community...it would have been dishonest not to check the box, but it wasn't something I felt comfortable writing a statement about. I think it's a personal choice, and for someone to check the box without actually identifying as LGBTQ+ would be really unethical (and as such I'd bet there are probably some more unethical things going on in that application if not in the applicants' future). I would have appreciated a separate space for a few sentences on it after checking those boxes, just to explain both which letter best fits me in that acronym and to say why I didn't feel the need to write a DS relating to being LGBTQ+, but I also think the schools are probably right to assume that for those whom their gender identity or sexual orientation has been a defining part of their growth and experiences they probably would write a DS on the subject.

I agree! An opportunity to explain why a box was checked would have been nice. So many people don't fit neatly into the "yes" or "no" boxes.

monceau · Post by **monceau** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:48 am

So I know this is a debated topic on TLS, but do you think law schools give any sort of tangible boost if you're LGBT? I know the general consensus is that it's a featherweight for your application at best, but Cornell for example had a whole section of their app that was just titled "LGBT". It just makes it seem like they're doing a little bit more than just getting statistical data..

ltbenn · Post by **ltbenn** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 12:58 am

monceau wrote:So I know this is a debated topic on TLS, but do you think law schools give any sort of tangible boost if you're LGBT? I know the general consensus is that it's a featherweight for your application at best, but Cornell for example had a whole section of their app that was just titled "LGBT". It just makes it seem like they're doing a little bit more than just getting statistical data..

A lot of schools have it as a separate section (more often with some sort of "demographics" title) - they might call the section LGBT but notice that the only question there is if you identify... I wouldn't read too much into it.

As to your primary question - I get the sense that it's a (very small) potential boost, especially if you have some sort of "it gets better" diversity statement. I'm lucky to have no real story of adversity relating to my sexuality, so I ended up not writing a diversity statement at all - but if you have something worth saying, go for it, it might help. But I wouldn't expect any miracles based on gayness.

gobears!! · Post by **gobears!!** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 2:30 pm

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ffamran · Post by **ffamran** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:20 pm

gobears!! wrote:Out of curiosity, have any applicants that selected LGBTQ on LSAC received any mailings from schools regarding LGBTQ recruitment? I've gotten emails which are fine and I feel like most schools try to avoid physical mail to not out individuals, but I am curious. I live at home and am out to one parent and not the other. So an influx of recruitment mailings might make me have to explain myself.

I haven't received any yet... I asked around before checking that box, and apparently it leads to only a few emails about how their campus is lgbtq-friendly

gobears!! · Post by **gobears!!** » Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:34 pm

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Elexica · Post by **Elexica** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:10 am

I just finished my DS on my sexuality even though I am a white lesbian and a resident of the bay area in CA so it's not like I have faced a lot of oppression, but I just sort of wrote about how knowing the shame made me a more empathetic person and how coming out was still hard? In retrospect, I'm concerned that it will sound sort of pathetic on my applications, but in another respect how much could it hurt? Like are they going to toss an application due to insufficient suffering in the diversity statement?

Seriously would they? If the grammar and everything else is fine, has anyone heard of diversity statements killing or leading to underperformance of numbers?

Muiraquita · Post by **Muiraquita** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:44 am

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darlenealderson · Post by **darlenealderson** » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:54 am

Elexica wrote:I just finished my DS on my sexuality even though I am a white lesbian and a resident of the bay area in CA so it's not like I have faced a lot of oppression, but I just sort of wrote about how knowing the shame made me a more empathetic person and how coming out was still hard? In retrospect, I'm concerned that it will sound sort of pathetic on my applications, but in another respect how much could it hurt? Like are they going to toss an application due to insufficient suffering in the diversity statement?

Seriously would they? If the grammar and everything else is fine, has anyone heard of diversity statements killing or leading to underperformance of numbers?

I can't imagine it hurting. It's a Diversity Statement, not an Oppression Statement. Can it be a really effective place to discuss systemic oppression an applicant has faced in order to better contextualize an application? Sure. Does it have to be that? No. Law schools are looking not only to fit the numbers they need, but also to compose an interesting body of students, and if you bring something different to the table, a DS can really just be a reflection of that, in my opinion. That being said, I didn't write one so I'm certainly not an expert!

Elexica · Post by **Elexica** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 1:54 am

Thanks y'all! I think I will submit it-- it would probably add to the diversity of the student body, and they need people to go to their queer networking events anyway!

Ahh after I finish these applications I am going to marathon how to get away with murder...

jwwoodma · Post by **jwwoodma** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:43 pm

Hey everyone -- checking in! I noticed that the OUTLaw group at UCLA gave me a fee waiver, and I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience with T20 schools giving out queer-related fee waivers?

GrayGamut · Post by **GrayGamut** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 4:31 pm

jwwoodma wrote:Hey everyone -- checking in! I noticed that the OUTLaw group at UCLA gave me a fee waiver, and I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience with T20 schools giving out queer-related fee waivers?

Also checking in! I haven't gotten a fee waiver from any OUTLaw group so far.

How many folks are planning on being super involved with an LGBTQ student org?

ltbenn · Post by **ltbenn** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:44 pm

GrayGamut wrote:
jwwoodma wrote:Hey everyone -- checking in! I noticed that the OUTLaw group at UCLA gave me a fee waiver, and I was wondering if anyone had a similar experience with T20 schools giving out queer-related fee waivers?
Also checking in! I haven't gotten a fee waiver from any OUTLaw group so far.

How many folks are planning on being super involved with an LGBTQ student org?

I also haven't gotten any queer waivers - sounds a little odd to me, but hey, a waiver's a waiver.

I dont know about "super involved" - but I certainly plan to be involved... The degree of involvement will probably depend a lot on where I end up, the culture on campus, and how isolated the campus is (ie, at a school like UVA/Michigan/Cornell, I'll probably be more campus-focused than at, say, NYU or GULC...) but OUTLaw/Lamda will definitely be a part of my law school experience.

GrayGamut · Post by **GrayGamut** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:52 pm

ltbenn wrote:I dont know about "super involved" - but I certainly plan to be involved... The degree of involvement will probably depend a lot on where I end up, the culture on campus, and how isolated the campus is (ie, at a school like UVA/Michigan/Cornell, I'll probably be more campus-focused than at, say, NYU or GULC...) but OUTLaw/Lamda will definitely be a part of my law school experience.

That makes sense to me. I've been out of UG for awhile, and I've gotten used to being part of a larger, urban queer community, which has actually impacted where I've chosen to apply. I know I'll be involved in OUTlaw, but it would be cool if the group had aspects that were community-oriented and not just campus-oriented. Seems plausible, especially at a school like NYU.

ltbenn · Post by **ltbenn** » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:59 pm

GrayGamut wrote: That makes sense to me. I've been out of UG for awhile, and I've gotten used to being part of a larger, urban queer community, which has actually impacted where I've chosen to apply. I know I'll be involved in OUTlaw, but it would be cool if the group had aspects that were community-oriented and not just campus-oriented. Seems plausible, especially at a school like NYU.

I get the sense that at schools with a lot of LGBT stuff going on in the area (NYC, DC, SoCal) that the OutLaw groups are more of a professional interest group with the occasional social outing, whereas at more isolated schools (big campuses in the middle of nowhere) it tends to be more of a social community... but that's totally a personal, not-too-researched perception.

I've also been out of UG for a while, living overseas and haven't had much of a queer community to speak of... I'm looking forward to the opportunity to get more tied-in during lawl school

zot1 · Post by **zot1** » Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:19 am

I'm gonna make a shameless plug for UCI. Great community. Consider it. Ask questions if you have any.

ltbenn · Post by **ltbenn** » Sun Nov 08, 2015 12:29 am

gobears!! wrote:Out of curiosity, have any applicants that selected LGBTQ on LSAC received any mailings from schools regarding LGBTQ recruitment? I've gotten emails which are fine and I feel like most schools try to avoid physical mail to not out individuals, but I am curious. I live at home and am out to one parent and not the other. So an influx of recruitment mailings might make me have to explain myself.

I got a letter yesterday from CLS OutLaw to my parents' address (my "permanent" address and not my current one...) encouraging me to apply... but it came as just a regular envelope, so they had to open it to know it was a gay thing (no big rainbows or HRC symbols on the outside

)
But that's the only one.