Brooklyn Law School C/O 2015 Forum

[ajax]

Congratulations to all the people in this thread who have snagged big scholarships (30K plus per year) to Brooklyn for Class of '15! You're going to spend three years in the greatest city in the world, pick up a JD at a bargain price, and hopefully graduate into an improving economy. Pretty shrewd!

Obvious shill.

[sd5289]

Re. 1TLStudent:

a) RBG = Ruth Bader Ginsberg, aka my favorite Supreme Court justice mainly because she drives Antonin Scalia bonkers (though they are ironically pretty good buddies outside of work).

b) You took what I said about UG (e.g. securing a job may be far more difficult for those straight out of UG compared to those who are not) and exploded it into "sd5289 thinks that only students who took years off after UG will be successful." That's not what I said, but that's what you spent the length of your post attacking.

c) We shall have to see on that one.

d) Fair enough.

It seems we're mainly in agreement on the bigger issues here (with some misreading of intent on both sides, thank you internet), but as to your point on "the ugly," dude, it's RBG. She's a BAMF.

[sadsituationJD]

If we're content with going to Brooklyn, then why should it really bother you that much?
Sure, we're "oversaturating" the market, but I think that's more true of NYLS, Touro, etc.
Regardless, if whichever school you are attending is really that much better than Brooklyn and we'll always be passed over by employers so they can hire from your school, then the fact that we're trying to get jobs in the same market shouldn't matter at all.
If we're "bringing salaries down" because there are more of us, then that means that employers must not think you are as irreplaceable as you think you are; if they wouldn't consider hiring us, then using us as a tool to justify lower salaries is simply a bluff. Care to call them out on it? It seems like you're pretty damn sure of yourself.

The market in NYC is already saturated above and beyond all reason. Why not just go to CUNY if you're hell bent on lawschool, since at least its dirt cheap?

As an attorney who worked in several small to mid-sized NYC firms, I can tell you that employers make no distinction whatsoever between Brooklyn, 'Bozo, NYLS, Touro, Pace, or CUNY. Once you get below Fordham, all the other dumps are kind of lumped together as the TTT's and "feeders" to rinky-dink shitlaw firms/solos which run craigslist ads. A lot of Brooklyn grads also worked as temps at the big firms doing doc review for $25 to $30 an hour, but those jobs are pretty much long gone now since the judges allow software and "predictive coding" to scan the docs rather than TTT grads. Also a lot of that work was/is outsourced to India.

My last NYC firm (insurance defense, about 15 attorneys) had associates from all of these schools. These type firms hire more on personality and "fit" than what school one went to, since the work these places do (personal injury, insurance defense, landlord tenant) is cookie cutter and could basically be done by an 8th grader. These places just want a law license to cover the shitlaw appearances and stip out the garbage motions and other slop they churn. FYI as someone with 4 years exepreince/admission to NY & NJ bars, I made 60 K plus a crappy Oxford HMO and a 1000 "bonus" for about 50-55 hours a week of court & paper churning.

The odds of getting proper NYC biglaw out of Brooklyn now are so small as to be laughable and a non-factor in your decision making. At best you might end up at WEMED or a similar insurance defense mill, making less than 1/2 biglaw pay for the same hours and stress/misery. I have about a half dozen Brooklyn grads among my friends, and most are already out of law altogether, except one ex-GF who now works for Brooklyn Children's Services for like 55 K a year and is an 2004 grad. She only does the job to get the health benefits for her kids, since her hubby is self-employed as a restaurant owner. She also has no debt (parents paid tution), and her grandmother left her a nice condo in Carroll Gardens.

There's a ton of hatred for this school from alumni, an infamous dean named Joan King took a lot of heat a few years ago for lying about salary/employment data and having the gall to take a limo to work every morning from her apartment on Park Avenue.

[Robespierre]

10% of 2011 Brooklyn grads got either Biglaw or a federal clerkship that sets you up for Biglaw. And that was the worst hiring year in a generation. So if you're near the top of the class, you're in great shape.

If you're not near the top of the class, well, 40K plus health insurance isn't the end of the world. In fact, in a deep recession, it's all you can hope for.

I think you're dissatisfied more with the practice of law and the bad economic times than with Brooklyn Law School.

BLS is still a good bet if you are taking on 50K or less in debt, are totally committed to being a lawyer in NYC, and don't expect to be handed a job at Cravath just for graduating.

[thomas7669]

Im going to a school similar ranking wise to Brooklyn on a full scholarship(no living expenses either besides books). The way I see it a full scholarship or something close is the only thing that makes sense for most law students these days.

If you go to a t-14 and get big law, chances are you will last just long enough to pay back your loans if you are lucky. After that it is a crap shoot where you end up. I know of some ex biglaw dudes doing doc review.

The real winners are those who get big law with no debt. Even those who miss out on big law can still have a good life as a lawyer if they have little/no debt. DA/AUSA/JAG/non elite plaintiff firms/compliance can all provide rewarding careers. Yes they are all very competitive but school ranking isnt the big factor. In fact the only thing rank matters for is big law and clerkships maybe it plays a factor in the bigger DA/ausa districts.

So I say props to those who have the balls to go against the conventional wisdom and sacrifice prestige in the name of not having to stare down a 250,000 dollar loan payment.

[blsingindisguise]

10% of 2011 Brooklyn grads got either Biglaw or a federal clerkship that sets you up for Biglaw. And that was the worst hiring year in a generation. So if you're near the top of the class, you're in great shape.

I graduated 2011. I don't know where you're getting your stats from, but I have actually gone person by person in the summa, magna and cum laude grads in the grad program to see what they were doing (using personal knowledge, linkedin, etc. -- yes, I'm that much of an obsessive and competitive dork), and there is no way 10% of the class have biglaw or federal clerkships. And I like BLS, I'm not out to diss it, I just don't like misinformation.

[Robespierre]

Here's the data, my friend: http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/

38 grads in firms of 100+ lawyers and 10 in federal clerkships equals 48, which is a bit more than 10% of the 455 total grads.

[BlaqBella]

Here's the data, my friend: http://employmentsummary.abaquestionnaire.org/

38 grads in firms of 100+ lawyers and 10 in federal clerkships equals 48, which is a bit more than 10% of the 455 total grads.

So having 100+ lawyers now means your firm is BIGLAW offering the 160k BIGLAW salary?

[Robespierre]

Who said anything about 160K? I'm just using 100+ lawyers as a signifier for big law firms. That's pretty standard. See, for example, the first couple of posts in this thread, from one of the founders of Law School Transparency: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=186905

[venzhlev]

Im going to a school similar ranking wise to Brooklyn on a full scholarship(no living expenses either besides books). The way I see it a full scholarship or something close is the only thing that makes sense for most law students these days.

If you go to a t-14 and get big law, chances are you will last just long enough to pay back your loans if you are lucky. After that it is a crap shoot where you end up. I know of some ex biglaw dudes doing doc review.

The real winners are those who get big law with no debt. Even those who miss out on big law can still have a good life as a lawyer if they have little/no debt. DA/AUSA/JAG/non elite plaintiff firms/compliance can all provide rewarding careers. Yes they are all very competitive but school ranking isnt the big factor. In fact the only thing rank matters for is big law and clerkships maybe it plays a factor in the bigger DA/ausa districts.

So I say props to those who have the balls to go against the conventional wisdom and sacrifice prestige in the name of not having to stare down a 250,000 dollar loan payment.

To all of you guys with awesome scholarships, congrats. As a 3L let me tell you how scholies work in midrange schools. I know most of you are not math people so I will go slowly. Schools usually stip that you need to finish top 40% or higher for the scholarship to be renewed. The school then puts a majority of the students with scholarships in the same sections. Students in each section are competing with each other on the same grading curve. Algebra tells us that only 45-55% of student with scholarships could retain those scholarships when they are competing with mostly other students with scholarships. In summary, the prognosis for retaining your scholarship is as certain as a flip of a coin (2:1 ratio). Remember who is tossing the coin right, a very smart individual who like you will study 50 hours a week in hopes of getting into the top 10% (1:10 ratio) in order to land a biglaw job. Aside from that, what is certain is that living in a large city, even with a full scholarship, you will go into 20k debt on top of the tuition.

[zor]

To all of you guys with awesome scholarships, congrats. As a 3L let me tell you how scholies work in midrange schools. I know most of you are not math people so I will go slowly. Schools usually stip that you need to finish top 40% or higher for the scholarship to be renewed. The school then puts a majority of the students with scholarships in the same sections. Students in each section are competing with each other on the same grading curve. Algebra tells us that only 45-55% of student with scholarships could retain those scholarships when they are competing with mostly other students with scholarships. In summary, the prognosis for retaining your scholarship is as certain as a flip of a coin (2:1 ratio). Remember who is tossing the coin right, a very smart individual who like you will study 50 hours a week in hopes of getting into the top 10% (1:10 ratio) in order to land a biglaw job. Aside from that, what is certain is that living in a large city, even with a full scholarship, you will go into 20k debt on top of the tuition.

Google is your friend--there's no reason to make assertions that can be disproved with a search engine. Brooklyn changed its stips to require top 80%. It's the main reason why I chose BLS over some competitors. Of the others I've met who have full schollys, only one is in my section, so they don't seem to be pulling stacking shenanigans either--at least, not anymore. It used to be top third.

Anyway, I don't know why people are dropping in this thread--a thread for ENROLLED STUDENTS--to tell us we've made a bad choice. Whether you agree or not, we're people who've long ago made our decisions. Scare off the 0Ls if you care so much.

[venzhlev]

To all of you guys with awesome scholarships, congrats. As a 3L let me tell you how scholies work in midrange schools. I know most of you are not math people so I will go slowly. Schools usually stip that you need to finish top 40% or higher for the scholarship to be renewed. The school then puts a majority of the students with scholarships in the same sections. Students in each section are competing with each other on the same grading curve. Algebra tells us that only 45-55% of student with scholarships could retain those scholarships when they are competing with mostly other students with scholarships. In summary, the prognosis for retaining your scholarship is as certain as a flip of a coin (2:1 ratio). Remember who is tossing the coin right, a very smart individual who like you will study 50 hours a week in hopes of getting into the top 10% (1:10 ratio) in order to land a biglaw job. Aside from that, what is certain is that living in a large city, even with a full scholarship, you will go into 20k debt on top of the tuition.

Google is your friend--there's no reason to make assertions that can be disproved with a search engine. Brooklyn changed its stips to require top 80%. It's the main reason why I chose BLS over some competitors. Of the others I've met who have full schollys, only one is in my section, so they don't seem to be pulling stacking shenanigans either--at least, not anymore. It used to be top third.

Anyway, I don't know why people are dropping in this thread--a thread for ENROLLED STUDENTS--to tell us we've made a bad choice. Whether you agree or not, we're people who've long ago made our decisions. Scare off the 0Ls if you care so much.

Didnt mean to say it was a bad choice. I obv made the same one. I am just saying, glorifying your scholarship might be short-lived. Please show me where it says top 80%, maybe my understanding is outdated.

[TopTopham]

To all of you guys with awesome scholarships, congrats. As a 3L let me tell you how scholies work in midrange schools. I know most of you are not math people so I will go slowly. Schools usually stip that you need to finish top 40% or higher for the scholarship to be renewed. The school then puts a majority of the students with scholarships in the same sections. Students in each section are competing with each other on the same grading curve. Algebra tells us that only 45-55% of student with scholarships could retain those scholarships when they are competing with mostly other students with scholarships. In summary, the prognosis for retaining your scholarship is as certain as a flip of a coin (2:1 ratio). Remember who is tossing the coin right, a very smart individual who like you will study 50 hours a week in hopes of getting into the top 10% (1:10 ratio) in order to land a biglaw job. Aside from that, what is certain is that living in a large city, even with a full scholarship, you will go into 20k debt on top of the tuition.

Google is your friend--there's no reason to make assertions that can be disproved with a search engine. Brooklyn changed its stips to require top 80%. It's the main reason why I chose BLS over some competitors. Of the others I've met who have full schollys, only one is in my section, so they don't seem to be pulling stacking shenanigans either--at least, not anymore. It used to be top third.

Anyway, I don't know why people are dropping in this thread--a thread for ENROLLED STUDENTS--to tell us we've made a bad choice. Whether you agree or not, we're people who've long ago made our decisions. Scare off the 0Ls if you care so much.

Didnt mean to say it was a bad choice. I obv made the same one. I am just saying, glorifying your scholarship might be short-lived. Please show me where it says top 80%, maybe my understanding is outdated.

http://www.brooklaw.edu/Admissions/fina ... AD710.ashx

You may want to erase your earlier post.

[ajax]

To all of you guys with awesome scholarships, congrats. As a 3L let me tell you how scholies work in midrange schools. I know most of you are not math people so I will go slowly. Schools usually stip that you need to finish top 40% or higher for the scholarship to be renewed. The school then puts a majority of the students with scholarships in the same sections. Students in each section are competing with each other on the same grading curve. Algebra tells us that only 45-55% of student with scholarships could retain those scholarships when they are competing with mostly other students with scholarships. In summary, the prognosis for retaining your scholarship is as certain as a flip of a coin (2:1 ratio). Remember who is tossing the coin right, a very smart individual who like you will study 50 hours a week in hopes of getting into the top 10% (1:10 ratio) in order to land a biglaw job. Aside from that, what is certain is that living in a large city, even with a full scholarship, you will go into 20k debt on top of the tuition.

Google is your friend--there's no reason to make assertions that can be disproved with a search engine. Brooklyn changed its stips to require top 80%. It's the main reason why I chose BLS over some competitors. Of the others I've met who have full schollys, only one is in my section, so they don't seem to be pulling stacking shenanigans either--at least, not anymore. It used to be top third.

Anyway, I don't know why people are dropping in this thread--a thread for ENROLLED STUDENTS--to tell us we've made a bad choice. Whether you agree or not, we're people who've long ago made our decisions. Scare off the 0Ls if you care so much.

Didnt mean to say it was a bad choice. I obv made the same one. I am just saying, glorifying your scholarship might be short-lived. Please show me where it says top 80%, maybe my understanding is outdated.

http://www.brooklaw.edu/Admissions/fina ... AD710.ashx

You may want to erase your earlier post.

This is straight up pathetic:

"Given this uncertainty, it is possible in any year that the number of merit
scholars enrolling could exceed the maximum number for whom it is mathematically possible to
renew their scholarship for the second year."

Also, say you had your scholarship revoked. How would the school prove that you were in the bottom 20%?

[vanwinkle]

Anyway, I don't know why people are dropping in this thread--a thread for ENROLLED STUDENTS--to tell us we've made a bad choice. Whether you agree or not, we're people who've long ago made our decisions. Scare off the 0Ls if you care so much.

This is a good point. A point so good, in fact, it's in the rules for this forum: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 7&t=146613

Next person to try discussing whether folks in this thread should attend Brooklyn gets the banhammer.

[Lawdible]

Hi Brooklyn 2015ers,

I'm a 1L at UCLA and I have Professor James Park as a professor for Civ Pro. I understand that he previously taught at Brooklyn Law, so I'm wondering if any of you had him for Civ Pro, and if you still have your outlines that you'd be willing to share.

Thanks,
Jeff