Well, thanks,dude~I wanna practice in NY in the future.tmon wrote:Need more info. Mainly: where do you want to work, and what are the total costs for both?t14retaker wrote:guys~now I get 25% scholly from UIUC, and $20,000 from Cardozo, and which one should I choose?
You'll want to calculate the total amount of loans you'll be taking out. If you're taking a lot out and banking on biglaw you might want to rethink both of these options. I don't think anyone would recommend picking UIUC for NYC biglaw. NLJ rank comparison can be useful for some schools, but in this case it's better to consider what happens if you don't place into the top 10%, because that's the most likely scenario. If that happens, your chances of getting back to the east coast at a place that will service your loans seems unlikely. Cardozo's really not that much better, they just probably have a better in for NYC firms.t14retaker wrote:Well, thanks,dude~I wanna practice in NY in the future.tmon wrote:Need more info. Mainly: where do you want to work, and what are the total costs for both?t14retaker wrote:guys~now I get 25% scholly from UIUC, and $20,000 from Cardozo, and which one should I choose?
according to UIUC website: for non-residents, the tution is $44,520, while Cardozo is $47,800
but as to the expenses, I think Cardozo is higher.
also, according to NLJ 250 rank, they seems to have similar results.
agreed nyctmon wrote:You'll want to calculate the total amount of loans you'll be taking out. If you're taking a lot out and banking on biglaw you might want to rethink both of these options. I don't think anyone would recommend picking UIUC for NYC biglaw. NLJ rank comparison can be useful for some schools, but in this case it's better to consider what happens if you don't place into the top 10%, because that's the most likely scenario. If that happens, your chances of getting back to the east coast at a place that will service your loans seems unlikely. Cardozo's really not that much better, they just probably have a better in for NYC firms.t14retaker wrote:Well, thanks,dude~I wanna practice in NY in the future.tmon wrote:Need more info. Mainly: where do you want to work, and what are the total costs for both?t14retaker wrote:guys~now I get 25% scholly from UIUC, and $20,000 from Cardozo, and which one should I choose?
according to UIUC website: for non-residents, the tution is $44,520, while Cardozo is $47,800
but as to the expenses, I think Cardozo is higher.
also, according to NLJ 250 rank, they seems to have similar results.
...At least COL can be cheap. I'm still thankful, it's a top school and in my home state. Still, I don't like that the big dogs, NW and UC, are just up the road.This decision is quite easy because under no circumstance should you consider Cardozo without a full ride. Your yearly tuition payment is ~28k, let's say by the end that's 90k in tuition + 75k in living exepnses, to a grand total of $165,000 in debt for a 10% shot at BigLaw (assuming you want that), and maybe a 1/3 shot at just like a JOB that requires a JD. Also, I assume there is a stip on that 20k? Not even an option, IMO. Also, it is very very unlikely that you would get to NYC from UIUC.t14retaker wrote:Well, thanks,dude~I wanna practice in NY in the future.tmon wrote:Need more info. Mainly: where do you want to work, and what are the total costs for both?t14retaker wrote:guys~now I get 25% scholly from UIUC, and $20,000 from Cardozo, and which one should I choose?
according to UIUC website: for non-residents, the tution is $44,520, while Cardozo is $47,800
but as to the expenses, I think Cardozo is higher.
also, according to NLJ 250 rank, they seems to have similar results.
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He said he wants to be in NY, why would he possibly come to UIUC, to go back to NYC big time he would have to be top 15%tennisking88 wrote:This decision is quite easy because under no circumstance should you consider Cardozo without a full ride. Your yearly tuition payment is ~28k, let's say by the end that's 90k in tuition + 75k in living exepnses, to a grand total of $165,000 in debt for a 10% shot at BigLaw (assuming you want that), and maybe a 1/3 shot at just like a JOB that requires a JD. Also, I assume there is a stip on that 20k? Not even an option, IMO. Also, it is very very unlikely that you would get to NYC from UIUC.t14retaker wrote:Well, thanks,dude~I wanna practice in NY in the future.tmon wrote:Need more info. Mainly: where do you want to work, and what are the total costs for both?t14retaker wrote:guys~now I get 25% scholly from UIUC, and $20,000 from Cardozo, and which one should I choose?
according to UIUC website: for non-residents, the tution is $44,520, while Cardozo is $47,800
but as to the expenses, I think Cardozo is higher.
also, according to NLJ 250 rank, they seems to have similar results.
I thought his/her point was closer to "don't go" than UIUC. Or at least, that's what their evidence suggests.hoosierball wrote:He said he wants to be in NY, why would he possibly come to UIUC, to go back to NYC big time he would have to be top 15%tennisking88 wrote: This decision is quite easy because under no circumstance should you consider Cardozo without a full ride. Your yearly tuition payment is ~28k, let's say by the end that's 90k in tuition + 75k in living exepnses, to a grand total of $165,000 in debt for a 10% shot at BigLaw (assuming you want that), and maybe a 1/3 shot at just like a JOB that requires a JD. Also, I assume there is a stip on that 20k? Not even an option, IMO. Also, it is very very unlikely that you would get to NYC from UIUC.
Correct. Neither Cardozo nor UIUC would be a wise decision. Only go to UIUC if you would be comfortable in the Midwest. Only go to Cardozo if you do not have to pay for Cardozo.tmon wrote:I thought his/her point was closer to "don't go" than UIUC. Or at least, that's what their evidence suggests.hoosierball wrote:He said he wants to be in NY, why would he possibly come to UIUC, to go back to NYC big time he would have to be top 15%tennisking88 wrote: This decision is quite easy because under no circumstance should you consider Cardozo without a full ride. Your yearly tuition payment is ~28k, let's say by the end that's 90k in tuition + 75k in living exepnses, to a grand total of $165,000 in debt for a 10% shot at BigLaw (assuming you want that), and maybe a 1/3 shot at just like a JOB that requires a JD. Also, I assume there is a stip on that 20k? Not even an option, IMO. Also, it is very very unlikely that you would get to NYC from UIUC.
Even then, top 15% is probably a little generous. There is a person in the top 5% from NY who mass mailed every NYC firm and only got 1 screener (rejected) and 1 callback (also rejected). A few people did get NYC, but it's not realistic to rely on.hoosierball wrote: He said he wants to be in NY, why would he possibly come to UIUC, to go back to NYC big time he would have to be top 15%
MBZags wrote:Even then, top 15% is probably a little generous. There is a person in the top 5% from NY who mass mailed every NYC firm and only got 1 screener (rejected) and 1 callback (also rejected). A few people did get NYC, but it's not realistic to rely on.hoosierball wrote: He said he wants to be in NY, why would he possibly come to UIUC, to go back to NYC big time he would have to be top 15%
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I don't think anyone overstepped their boundaries in this discussion. Going to either of those schools and getting big law is an uphill battle and chances are it wont happen. This isn't 0L speculation, it's supported by employment statistics and current/former students' accounts. If you aren't comfortable with not getting big law/not working in NYC/taking much more than 10 years to repay your loans if you don't have monetary support from family, then both of those options are pretty poor.illini22 wrote:Ok so 0Ls shouldnt be giving direct advice as to how easy or hard it will be to get to NYC. I only know of one person that wanted NYC that didnt get it... Quite the opposite, I know people who wanted another market and ended up in NYC because it was easier.... Unlike markets like Texas, Seattle, etc, NYC doent care AT ALL if you have connections there.
Top 20% at U of I will go further than top 20% at Cardozo, EVEN for NYC. It will be a gamble both ways, a big one. However, I think the only thing Cardozo will be better is for small/midsize in nyc as those jobs are mostly through connections which being in NYC will be a must to get.
If you are going to be top 5% at Cardozo, Great, I go for it. But the most likely scenario, that even if you work your tail off, you will end up outside of the top 20%, I much rather be top 20-30% at U of I and have a good shot at a big law in Chicago with a chance at NYC big than top 20% at Cardozo. Also, take into account that this is just for your FIRST job, the average associates doesnt stay in its firm for most than 2 years. You can always lateral within the same firm to a different office or just to a different firm.
Point is, if Big Law is your goal, easier to do big law UIUC--> chicago big law 2 years -> NYC Big law; than Cardozo-> Big Law.
I agree. My thought process, and perhaps an unfair one, is that I see too many people who dont put 100% for school work nor 100% for getting a job, and are pissed thereafter when they do not get that 160k job. They are both "poor" choices for his specific goal (which i must say so many people change their mind about), but he must decide within his choices, unless he is willing to wait out a year.tmon wrote:I don't think anyone overstepped their boundaries in this discussion. Going to either of those schools and getting big law is an uphill battle and chances are it wont happen. This isn't 0L speculation, it's supported by employment statistics and current/former students' accounts. If you aren't comfortable with not getting big law/not working in NYC/taking much more than 10 years to repay your loans if you don't have monetary support from family, then both of those options are pretty poor.illini22 wrote:Ok so 0Ls shouldnt be giving direct advice as to how easy or hard it will be to get to NYC. I only know of one person that wanted NYC that didnt get it... Quite the opposite, I know people who wanted another market and ended up in NYC because it was easier.... Unlike markets like Texas, Seattle, etc, NYC doent care AT ALL if you have connections there.
Top 20% at U of I will go further than top 20% at Cardozo, EVEN for NYC. It will be a gamble both ways, a big one. However, I think the only thing Cardozo will be better is for small/midsize in nyc as those jobs are mostly through connections which being in NYC will be a must to get.
If you are going to be top 5% at Cardozo, Great, I go for it. But the most likely scenario, that even if you work your tail off, you will end up outside of the top 20%, I much rather be top 20-30% at U of I and have a good shot at a big law in Chicago with a chance at NYC big than top 20% at Cardozo. Also, take into account that this is just for your FIRST job, the average associates doesnt stay in its firm for most than 2 years. You can always lateral within the same firm to a different office or just to a different firm.
Point is, if Big Law is your goal, easier to do big law UIUC--> chicago big law 2 years -> NYC Big law; than Cardozo-> Big Law.
illini22 wrote:
Completely forgot about this person. However, lets be honest, we both know why he didnt get NYC. It was not U of I, and it was not grades, shit he got a call back with Vault top 5 in NYC (if you get a callback, it means you already pass the barrier of school/grades) but even if he was from Columbia he would have had similar problems. For instance, he didnt do well in Chicago either, everyone else top 5% was swimming in callbacks...
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It is like musical chairs at this place, between the presidents office, their coaching staffs, and the law schoolmrjohnsterman wrote:U of I just fired their President (errr...he "resigned")
They have had a few interesting years...
Yeah, my point was more that it's pretty difficult to get NYC interviews from Illinois even with top grades whereas OCI takes care of Chicago. Also, the CB was V50; I think the other interview was through that program Illinois had in New York.illini22 wrote:MBZags wrote:Even then, top 15% is probably a little generous. There is a person in the top 5% from NY who mass mailed every NYC firm and only got 1 screener (rejected) and 1 callback (also rejected). A few people did get NYC, but it's not realistic to rely on.hoosierball wrote: He said he wants to be in NY, why would he possibly come to UIUC, to go back to NYC big time he would have to be top 15%
Completely forgot about this person. However, lets be honest, we both know why he didnt get NYC. It was not U of I, and it was not grades, shit he got a call back with Vault top 5 in NYC (if you get a callback, it means you already pass the barrier of school/grades) but even if he was from Columbia he would have had similar problems. For instance, he didnt do well in Chicago either, everyone else top 5% was swimming in callbacks...
Thank you guys~thanks for all your informative posts.illini22 wrote: Point is, if Big Law is your goal, easier to do big law UIUC--> chicago big law 2 years -> NYC Big law; than Cardozo-> Big Law.
True. OCI was mostly Chicago firms. He will need to do his own work. What I was trying to get at is that, yes, it will be difficult, but I dont think firms in NYC will see his resume and go, "Illinois? Nah, too far." The Illinois NYC Interview Program was OK, I heard mixed feelings about it. But hey, at least we got one... Also, we just hired a person from NYC at the career service office with the particular intention to tap the NYC market. What impact this will have, we are yet to see...MBZags wrote:Yeah, my point was more that it's pretty difficult to get NYC interviews from Illinois even with top grades whereas OCI takes care of Chicago. Also, the CB was V50; I think the other interview was through that program Illinois had in New York.illini22 wrote:MBZags wrote:Even then, top 15% is probably a little generous. There is a person in the top 5% from NY who mass mailed every NYC firm and only got 1 screener (rejected) and 1 callback (also rejected). A few people did get NYC, but it's not realistic to rely on.hoosierball wrote: He said he wants to be in NY, why would he possibly come to UIUC, to go back to NYC big time he would have to be top 15%
Completely forgot about this person. However, lets be honest, we both know why he didnt get NYC. It was not U of I, and it was not grades, shit he got a call back with Vault top 5 in NYC (if you get a callback, it means you already pass the barrier of school/grades) but even if he was from Columbia he would have had similar problems. For instance, he didnt do well in Chicago either, everyone else top 5% was swimming in callbacks...
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If you want to work in Chicago, Illinois seems like the must better choice.diegoforlan10 wrote:Scholly increased from 25% to 33%. I'm happy about it, but I was really hoping for 50%! Had they given me the 50% I would attend no questions asked. Now I'm still torn between Illinois and Maryland (my home state). Before I was leaning towards Maryland because of the price difference. Now I'm split right down the middle.
Maryland's in-state tuition is $23,744. UIUC OOS with a third scholly is $29,680. What do you think, TLSers? Where do you think I should go?
Background: lived in Maryland about a half hour north of Baltimore my entire life, attended UMD undergrad. Obviously have strong ties to the area but I have no qualms about starting a new life in the midwest. I would love to work in Chicago. So no personal region preference.
Basically, all things are equal to me except for tuition cost and "prestige" (read: chance for a good job - I believe UIUC has the upper hand in this, am I wrong?). Which school do you all recommend? I am kind of sick of Baltimore, but I am worried about the issues UIUC law has been dealing with and am worried that it's on the decline.
Any advice you could give would be greatly appreciated.
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