Missouri Class of 2015 Forum

[thelawschoolproject]

Checking in. This is most likely where I'm headed if I don't hit 168+.

[rachelkatelyn]

This looks great! Though it's a college town, it seems like that it offers a lot of big city amenities. Am I wrong in saying this?

Not at all. I'd definitely characterize it that way. You can't compare it to a big city- "college town" is the right term, but there are so many great places and I never felt bored or felt like I needed to drive to STL or KC for something.

Seriously, some of my all-time favorite bars and restaurants are in downtown CoMo!

I should also add that everyone is really friendly!

[CPM723]

Do you feel like it'll be hard to gain access to internships because of Columbia's size?

[thelawschoolproject]

Do you feel like it'll be hard to gain access to internships because of Columbia's size?

Depends on what kinds of internships you want. Governmental internships? Easy. Jefferson City (the state's capital) is only 30 minutes away. STL/KC? Probably pretty easy. The alumni at Mizzou is unbelievable. The entire state is very pro-Mizzou. Of course, in STL you're competing with WUSTL and SLU people, but the loyalty to Mizzou is overwhelming. In KC, I find that Mizzou lawyers tend to do better than UMKC lawyers. Just an observation.

As for CoMo's size, it's not a large city, but it is decently sized. There are many law offices there. Big business, not so much.

[CPM723]

Do you feel like it'll be hard to gain access to internships because of Columbia's size?

Depends on what kinds of internships you want. Governmental internships? Easy. Jefferson City (the state's capital) is only 30 minutes away. STL/KC? Probably pretty easy. The alumni at Mizzou is unbelievable. The entire state is very pro-Mizzou. Of course, in STL you're competing with WUSTL and SLU people, but the loyalty to Mizzou is overwhelming. In KC, I find that Mizzou lawyers tend to do better than UMKC lawyers. Just an observation.

As for CoMo's size, it's not a large city, but it is decently sized. There are many law offices there. Big business, not so much.

I would be looking for a Public Defender's or a District Attorney's Office. Doable?

[rachelkatelyn]

Do you feel like it'll be hard to gain access to internships because of Columbia's size?

Depends on what kinds of internships you want. Governmental internships? Easy. Jefferson City (the state's capital) is only 30 minutes away. STL/KC? Probably pretty easy. The alumni at Mizzou is unbelievable. The entire state is very pro-Mizzou. Of course, in STL you're competing with WUSTL and SLU people, but the loyalty to Mizzou is overwhelming. In KC, I find that Mizzou lawyers tend to do better than UMKC lawyers. Just an observation.

As for CoMo's size, it's not a large city, but it is decently sized. There are many law offices there. Big business, not so much.

I would be looking for a Public Defender's or a District Attorney's Office. Doable?

I'd say definitely do-able. My friend who graduated in May from MU law interned with the Public Defender's Office in Moberly and is currently working there!

[CPM723]

That's very encouraging to hear. I would prefer a DA's office, but I would love experience in either place. So getting a job in STL or KC would be fairly painless given Mizzou's alumni?

[rachelkatelyn]

That's very encouraging to hear. I would prefer a DA's office, but I would love experience in either place. So getting a job in STL or KC would be fairly painless given Mizzou's alumni?

I wouldn't use the word "painless". While it's true that the alumni network is great, you're going to be competing with people from SLU and Wash U, and getting certain kinds of jobs in STL could be tough.

I'm from STL and feel comfortable in that assessment, I can't say either way for KC- but I think it'd be an easier time than STL...

[CPM723]

Gotcha. Do you know about prospects outside of the state? I had a talk with admissions and they said that they had a large amount of alumni in Texas. Will those alumni be helpful?

[rachelkatelyn]

Gotcha. Do you know about prospects outside of the state? I had a talk with admissions and they said that they had a large amount of alumni in Texas. Will those alumni be helpful?

I'd say yes- those alumni will be helpful. Honestly, for the most part, I haven't heard great things about placement out of state, just because the legal market in general isn't wonderful- and again, you're competing with more people from other schools out-of-state. But, Mizzou alumni will be helpful no matter where you end up I think. I'd just say in general you have a better shot in-state!

[CPM723]

I'm sure that's true, but my ties in Texas are strong.

My main concern is the ability to get experience while in school.

[rachelkatelyn]

I'm sure that's true, but my ties in Texas are strong.

My main concern is the ability to get experience while in school.

With ties in Texas, that surely changes things a bit.

I'm not sure where else you are looking at applying, but it seems like Mizzou could be a good fit for you!

If you decided on MU for sure and have questions about apartments or anything else you can think of, feel free to ask!

[thelawschoolproject]

That's very encouraging to hear. I would prefer a DA's office, but I would love experience in either place. So getting a job in STL or KC would be fairly painless given Mizzou's alumni?

The reason getting a placement in STL is easier as a Mizzou alum is that, for all intents and purposes, Mizzou is considered preferable to SLU and many WUSTL students don't stay in STL. Most WUSTL students aren't actually from STL, whereas SLU students are. However, Missouri is very pro-Mizzou and I feel the connections you'll make at Mizzou will tend to favor you over your SLU-peers. This is by no means true in every case, but I lived in Missouri until I graduated high-school, and I feel fairly confident in ranking the preference of Missouri Law Grads in the eyes of the state as a whole as follows:

1). WUSTL/Top Tier Mizzou grads
2). All other Mizzou Grads
3). SLU
4). UMKC

[CPM723]

Do you think this ranking is true in just BigLaw, or all types?

[thelawschoolproject]

Do you think this ranking is true in just BigLaw, or all types?

IMO it's overall. In smaller-rural areas, Mizzou will probably always trump every other school, unless a graduate has a particular tie to a small town. For Big Law as in STL, KC, or Springfield WUSTL/SLU/UMKC will have more influence and pull. It's a similar effect between U of Tennessee and Vanderbilt. Although one school definitely has more national prestige, within the state the loyalty to the school (even if those people are alumni) is so strong that it overcomes a lot. Now, there will be very prestigious, Big Law jobs in KC and STL that will definitely prefer students from WUSTL, and they will attract graduates from other top-tier midwestern schools like Vandy, Northwestern, Notre Dame, and Illinois. But those are definitely in the minority.

As a resident of MO, I wouldn't go to school anywhere but WUSTL or Mizzou. (Even though SLU throws some nice schollys.)

[CPM723]

Yeah that makes sense. I am not looking for BigLaw. I am looking for more governmental positions. Where else are you applying?

[thelawschoolproject]

Yeah that makes sense. I am not looking for BigLaw. I am looking for more governmental positions. Where else are you applying?

I'm applying to all of the T14, plus a few T30 to get some schollys. Annnd Mizzou. Where else are you looking at?

[beachbum]

That's very encouraging to hear. I would prefer a DA's office, but I would love experience in either place. So getting a job in STL or KC would be fairly painless given Mizzou's alumni?

The reason getting a placement in STL is easier as a Mizzou alum is that, for all intents and purposes, Mizzou is considered preferable to SLU and many WUSTL students don't stay in STL. Most WUSTL students aren't actually from STL, whereas SLU students are. However, Missouri is very pro-Mizzou and I feel the connections you'll make at Mizzou will tend to favor you over your SLU-peers. This is by no means true in every case, but I lived in Missouri until I graduated high-school, and I feel fairly confident in ranking the preference of Missouri Law Grads in the eyes of the state as a whole as follows:

1). WUSTL/Top Tier Mizzou grads
2). All other Mizzou Grads
3). SLU
4). UMKC

Eh, I'm not sure this is accurate. In my experience with the St. Louis market (native, lived there my entire life, stuck around for undergrad), SLU has the edge over Mizzou, if only because SLU's network within the city is much more extensive than Mizzou's.

I'd say if you're dead-set on STL and WUSTL isn't an option, then SLU is probably your next best bet. But it's not so far ahead of Mizzou that you should take it at substantially greater cost. Basically, with STL (or Missouri) connections: WUSTL>>>SLU>Miz

I'm not overly familiar with Mizzou's placement in other markets, but I've heard it does well in KC. Don't attend Mizzou hoping to work outside of the state, though.

Otherwise, Mizzou seems like a great place to spend 3 years. A lot of my friends attended for undergrad and loved it, and Como is a great college town. And hopefully Pinkel gets that football team rolling again, because this state needs some sort of watchable football on the weekends.

[CPM723]

Yeah that makes sense. I am not looking for BigLaw. I am looking for more governmental positions. Where else are you applying?

I'm applying to all of the T14, plus a few T30 to get some schollys. Annnd Mizzou. Where else are you looking at?

I'm applying to Notre Dame, Fordham, Washington and Lee, Marquette, Loyola-Chicago, SLU, DePaul, and Case Western

[rachelkatelyn]

That's very encouraging to hear. I would prefer a DA's office, but I would love experience in either place. So getting a job in STL or KC would be fairly painless given Mizzou's alumni?

The reason getting a placement in STL is easier as a Mizzou alum is that, for all intents and purposes, Mizzou is considered preferable to SLU and many WUSTL students don't stay in STL. Most WUSTL students aren't actually from STL, whereas SLU students are. However, Missouri is very pro-Mizzou and I feel the connections you'll make at Mizzou will tend to favor you over your SLU-peers. This is by no means true in every case, but I lived in Missouri until I graduated high-school, and I feel fairly confident in ranking the preference of Missouri Law Grads in the eyes of the state as a whole as follows:

1). WUSTL/Top Tier Mizzou grads
2). All other Mizzou Grads
3). SLU
4). UMKC

Eh, I'm not sure this is accurate. In my experience with the St. Louis market (native, lived there my entire life, stuck around for undergrad), SLU has the edge over Mizzou, if only because SLU's network within the city is much more extensive than Mizzou's.

I'd say if you're dead-set on STL and WUSTL isn't an option, then SLU is probably your next best bet. But it's not so far ahead of Mizzou that you should take it at substantially greater cost. Basically, with STL (or Missouri) connections: WUSTL>>>SLU>Miz

I'm not overly familiar with Mizzou's placement in other markets, but I've heard it does well in KC. Don't attend Mizzou hoping to work outside of the state, though.

Otherwise, Mizzou seems like a great place to spend 3 years. A lot of my friends attended for undergrad and loved it, and Como is a great college town. And hopefully Pinkel gets that football team rolling again, because this state needs some sort of watchable football on the weekends.

+1

[molazapuku]

+1...Mizzou 1L here.

From everything I have seen and read (keep in mind I just started here) the WUSTL>>>STL>MO statement is accurate. Its logistics and math. Mizzou's class size is only about half the size of SLU's and they are generally pretty attached to the StL area. Mizzou spreads out across the state. So, STL alumni presence is greater in StL by a significant margin. But Mizzou alums seem to be almost rabid...that makes up some ground. I see big firms doing OCI here from St. Louis, but its just logistically easier to walk to SLU than drive to Columbia.

SLU has a pretty significant advantage for Big Law because of that, at least in St.L. I know less about KC but my understanding is Mizzou is stronger there. Weight SLU heavier if you are determined to get the big law job. But if looking at government type work...Mizzou is a whole lot stronger there. And the price difference makes a lower paying job a lot more doable. But getting ANY job, right now, is not what I would call "painless".

If dead set on St.L, SLU may be a leg up. But the equation is more complicated that. I simply didnt LIKE SLU when I visited. Totally different feel, older building felt very claustrophobic and the law students just didn't seem all that friendly. Its in a not-so great neighborhood. And while SLU may throw more money at you...they cost twice as much as Mizzou. I got a much bigger scholarship from SLU but financially Mizzou was still a TON cheaper. And the Mizzou admissions folks are just flat out amazing (and they are hiring a bunch of employment people that so far seem good).

Do yourself a favor and visit both schools before you decide between them. You may find that makes the decision easier, it did for me and my family. I love St. Louis, it's home...but I really like it here in Columbia. I will be happy to answer whatever questions you may have about the school and the city (as best I can).

EDIT...and I do see and hear a lot about Texas here. Mostly involves spitting and curse words right now. =) But, seriously, you probably have a BETTER chance in Texas with Mizzou than you do with SLU. But I would still say its an uphill climb (not knowing the nature of your ties to the Lone Star state).

[beachbum]

If dead set on St.L, SLU may be a leg up. But the equation is more complicated that. I simply didnt LIKE SLU when I visited. Totally different feel, older building felt very claustrophobic

Ha, yeah. The SLU law building leaves MUCH to be desired. There were talks of building a new one (and even a fundraising campaign), but those talks seem to have stalled indefinitely due to the economy (even as SLU builds a new student center on the med campus...).

I'd say personal fit and relative cost should play major roles in deciding between SLU and Mizzou. Neither school is appreciably stronger than the other to justify sucking it up in a less-than-stellar situation for three years.

Another point on SLU, though: its location gives you more opportunity to network with attorneys. And with the relatively small and tight-knit legal community in STL, this could make a big difference. Though Mizzou probably gives you a materially better shot at landing in the KC market. But again, I don't think either advantage is worth major sacrifices in cost or fit.

(Go Cardinals).

[molazapuku]

And whenever you read that Mizzou's building needs an update...what that REALLY means is "needs more outlets." I really dont get why that is such an issue, but it is. you will not be able to plug in during classes or finals. I bought an external battery the first week of classes so it is never an issue for me but others complain. Often. Heck, we had campus facilities out at the building the other day setting up for homecoming and they were shocked they couldnt find outlets. Other than that, its comfortable and open.

SLU had a very nice model of a new building when I visited. Talked about the new building a lot, but it wasnt going to be there while I was there. I kept thinking of the Monty Python song about Camelot...it's only a model.

[CPM723]

Molaz,

Do you feel like you will have the same opportunities to intern at places as a school in a city?

[thelawschoolproject]

SLU has the edge over Mizzou, if only because SLU's network within the city is much more extensive than Mizzou's.

I'd tend to agree with you that SLU has a more substantial network in STL than Mizzou, but I'd also state that once you start heading west on I-70 SLU's reputation plummets.

Also, had Mizzou's ranking not substantially decreased over the last few years (they went from 76th to 107th in 3 years time) they would have better out-of-state appeal. (Although, their reputation is still better than SLU's.)