IOWA 2012 Forum

typ3 · Post by **typ3** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:21 pm

40_Minus_1 wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:
To completely ignore your classmates and your surroundings for three years is very short sighted.
Come on, I never said anything like that!

Have you read all my comments? I have said that going to bars is indeed beneficial for success. I believe it. I have submitted to that advice and have no arguments. My only differing opinion is in regards to actually drinking alcohol while at the bars.
This is all kind of a moot point, anyway. By the end of your first year you're going to have a serious drinking problem, just like everyone else.

Unfortunately there is a lot of truth to this. The profession and law schools have reputations for this-- it is definitely warranted. Work hard, play harder.

shredderrrrrr · Post by **shredderrrrrr** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:26 pm

Onto a (hopefully) less controversial topic...what about Boyd Law Building? For current students, what do you think about the building? I have toured Wisconsin, Georgetown, Virginia, Marquette, and Minnesota, and the Iowa law building seemed pretty bad (UMN wasn't much better). Don't get me wrong, I love Iowa City and think the University sounds great, but the actual building facilities themselves seemed pretty dreadful. I know it doesn't really matter, but what do you guys think about the building?

neeko · Post by **neeko** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:28 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:Onto a (hopefully) less controversial topic...what about Boyd Law Building? For current students, what do you think about the building? I have toured Wisconsin, Georgetown, Virginia, Marquette, and Minnesota, and the Iowa law building seemed pretty bad (UMN wasn't much better). Don't get me wrong, I love Iowa City and think the University sounds great, but the actual building facilities themselves seemed pretty dreadful. I know it doesn't really matter, but what do you guys think about the building?

It's as bad as UMN?

nickjive · Post by **nickjive** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:28 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:Onto a (hopefully) less controversial topic...what about Boyd Law Building? For current students, what do you think about the building? I have toured Wisconsin, Georgetown, Virginia, Marquette, and Minnesota, and the Iowa law building seemed pretty bad (UMN wasn't much better). Don't get me wrong, I love Iowa City and think the University sounds great, but the actual building facilities themselves seemed pretty dreadful. I know it doesn't really matter, but what do you guys think about the building?

Iowa is worse than Wisconsin's facilities???

40_Minus_1 · Post by **40_Minus_1** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:41 pm

I've been in Boyd to use the library, but haven't toured any other law schools. Compared to some other Iowa buildings (I'm in Westlawn right now), I think Boyd is fantastic.

sebastian0622 · Post by **sebastian0622** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:53 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:Sebastian: Once again, I was referring to success in law school, not my career. I believe it was chrisbru that pointed out the importance of networking in a firm and I agreed he was right. So your point about needing to be comfortable in bars is right on. The part about drinking still seems weak though. A client will feel uncomfortable if their lawyer isn't drinking with them? ... Are you telling me that a guy socializing in a bar with water will bring in less business than the same guy socializing in a bar with alcohol?

Yes. Here's an anecdote: my wife is a professional (manager) in a client-oriented financial field. It is common knowledge (and not the least bit controversial, frankly) among her peers that it's best to order a glass of wine at dinner with the client. First, by ordering a glass, you signal to the client that it's ok if they want to drink. Second, a stupidly high proportion of senior executives in finance drink alcohol, and they tend to distrust those who don't for a number of reasons (feel they are being judged, feel the non-drinker is insecure and afraid to let go and socialize, they have more fun when they drink and think the non-drinker will be boring, etc.). All of these factors are amplified in any sales context, because people are reluctant to buy things from people they don't trust. And your post earlier about how stupid it is to go to a bar just to listen to loud music and be around drunk people shows that their concerns are justified: you probably are judging them, and you're probably not interested in socializing with them because you'd rather be home playing MW3 with your girlfriend, as you also stated! As you can see, it's not the non-drinking that's so much an issue as the other comments you made betraying how you feel about those who drink and about your aversion to socializing. Those characteristics tend to go along with non-drinkers, and drinkers know that. They react accordingly, and that reaction is arguably rational.

shredderrrrrr wrote:What about non-drinkers feeling uncomfortable having drinkers drink in front of them? I really don't see it being a major problem.

Regarding your question of whether it's the same thing as non-drinkers being uncomfortable around drinkers: yeah, it's probably the same. Unfortunately for you, most people in this profession are drinkers. If most were non-drinkers, and these social events occurred at, like, the YMCA instead of at bars, then it would probably be the case that those who drink would make others uncomfortable and be at a disadvantage. That's simply not the case, however.

sebastian0622 · Post by **sebastian0622** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 2:55 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:Onto a (hopefully) less controversial topic...what about Boyd Law Building? For current students, what do you think about the building? I have toured Wisconsin, Georgetown, Virginia, Marquette, and Minnesota, and the Iowa law building seemed pretty bad (UMN wasn't much better). Don't get me wrong, I love Iowa City and think the University sounds great, but the actual building facilities themselves seemed pretty dreadful. I know it doesn't really matter, but what do you guys think about the building?

You're right about this one; Boyd sucks. The architecture is atrocious, the thermodynamics are mediocre, the lighting is annoying (lacking in some areas and present in other areas where it shouldn't be), there is no parking, the elevator scares me, and the little food market closes at 2 p.m. (wtf?). I accompanied a friend from undergrad to a couple tier-3 schools (including Drake), and they had better facilities.

shredderrrrrr · Post by **shredderrrrrr** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:02 pm

Let me clarify what I've said. I am just referring to purely aesthetic preference. Wisconsin's law building is in a wonderful location, has modern architecture, and has LOTS of light. GULC has a wonderful campus, gorgeous moot courtroom and is very professional. Virginia has, in my opinion, the most beautiful library I've seen. Marquette's new building is fantastic.

Minnesota has very old architecture and is very dark. It feels like an outdated building.

Iowa, for me, seemed very drab. The library felt dark and secluded. It has been a while since I was there, but if I recall correctly, there were few windows. The classroom's weren't bad, but nothing spectacular either. I'm not a huge fan of the location of the building (again just my preference) and I think the exterior looks very strange. I am a fan of either modern (like Marquette) or classical (like Virginia) design. Boyd looks, to me, like it was a modern building when it was made, but now looks outdated.

Just to reiterate, this is just a discussion about aesthetic opinions. I'm not saying Iowa's law building IS bad, just that I THINK it looks bad. I'm curious if others like it. I, for one, like natural light in a library, while others may like seclusion. To each their own!

typ3 · Post by **typ3** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:13 pm

sebastian0622 wrote:
shredderrrrrr wrote:Onto a (hopefully) less controversial topic...what about Boyd Law Building? For current students, what do you think about the building? I have toured Wisconsin, Georgetown, Virginia, Marquette, and Minnesota, and the Iowa law building seemed pretty bad (UMN wasn't much better). Don't get me wrong, I love Iowa City and think the University sounds great, but the actual building facilities themselves seemed pretty dreadful. I know it doesn't really matter, but what do you guys think about the building?
You're right about this one; Boyd sucks. The architecture is atrocious, the thermodynamics are mediocre, the lighting is annoying (lacking in some areas and present in other areas where it shouldn't be), there is no parking, the elevator scares me, and the little food market closes at 2 p.m. (wtf?). I accompanied a friend from undergrad to a couple tier-3 schools (including Drake), and they had better facilities.

It grows on you after awhile. However, the library is ranked #1 overall and is the 6th largest of all law schools. I will say that part of Boyd is pretty kick ass.

But, your critiques are valid. There are few windows, lots of artificial lighting, and the circulation within the building sometimes sucks. However after spending a few months in the building it feels like home. (Never thought I would say that about a building that looks like its straight from a George Lucas set..

)

sebastian0622 · Post by **sebastian0622** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:22 pm

typ3 wrote:It grows on you after awhile. However, the library is ranked #1 overall and is the 6th largest of all law schools. I will say that part of Boyd is pretty kick ass.

But, your critiques are valid. There are few windows, lots of artificial lighting, and the circulation within the building sometimes sucks. However after spending a few months in the building it feels like home. (Never thought I would say that about a building that looks like its straight from a George Lucas set.. )

I'm a 2L. It hasn't grown on me one bit. I actually went from ambivalence about the building to strong dislike. At this rate, I'll outright hate it by April.

Opie · Post by **Opie** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:23 pm

I wasn't impressen with the building either, but it seems functional.

Drake's library is prettier, but of course not as functional.

typ3 · Post by **typ3** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:35 pm

sebastian0622 wrote:
typ3 wrote:It grows on you after awhile. However, the library is ranked #1 overall and is the 6th largest of all law schools. I will say that part of Boyd is pretty kick ass.

But, your critiques are valid. There are few windows, lots of artificial lighting, and the circulation within the building sometimes sucks. However after spending a few months in the building it feels like home. (Never thought I would say that about a building that looks like its straight from a George Lucas set.. )
I'm a 2L. It hasn't grown on me one bit. I actually went from ambivalence about the building to strong dislike. At this rate, I'll outright hate it by April.

Does your hate of Boyd correlate with your growing dislike for law school?

chrisbru · Post by **chrisbru** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:36 pm

Unless there are really strong reasons for not drinking, Sebastian's anecdote makes sense. Maybe it's worth learning to drink a glass of wine with dinner, or how to order a scotch. Drinking one or two drinks socially is not the same as getting hammered and streaking through the quad.

shredderrrrrr wrote:Onto a (hopefully) less controversial topic...what about Boyd Law Building? For current students, what do you think about the building? I have toured Wisconsin, Georgetown, Virginia, Marquette, and Minnesota, and the Iowa law building seemed pretty bad (UMN wasn't much better). Don't get me wrong, I love Iowa City and think the University sounds great, but the actual building facilities themselves seemed pretty dreadful. I know it doesn't really matter, but what do you guys think about the building?

I kinda like Boyd, but I'm in the minority. It's goofy looking, but endearing in a sense. We call it the Death Star, which you'll understand if you've seen it. The interior is nothing to write home about, but I've seen much worse. It's better than 90% of the buildings I spent my UG in, though far worse than our business building was.

I'm a study-at-home kinda guy though, so I might dislike it if I spent more time here. I'm 15-20 hours a week here, not 40-50.

Agreed that TTT schools usually have nicer facilities... But its because they have to.

sebastian0622 · Post by **sebastian0622** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:38 pm

typ3 wrote:
sebastian0622 wrote:
typ3 wrote:It grows on you after awhile. However, the library is ranked #1 overall and is the 6th largest of all law schools. I will say that part of Boyd is pretty kick ass.

But, your critiques are valid. There are few windows, lots of artificial lighting, and the circulation within the building sometimes sucks. However after spending a few months in the building it feels like home. (Never thought I would say that about a building that looks like its straight from a George Lucas set.. )
I'm a 2L. It hasn't grown on me one bit. I actually went from ambivalence about the building to strong dislike. At this rate, I'll outright hate it by April.
Does your hate with Boyd correlate with your growing hate for law school?

No, my semester is really easy, so I don't mind school.

typ3 · Post by **typ3** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 3:41 pm

sebastian0622 wrote:
typ3 wrote:
sebastian0622 wrote:
typ3 wrote:It grows on you after awhile. However, the library is ranked #1 overall and is the 6th largest of all law schools. I will say that part of Boyd is pretty kick ass.

But, your critiques are valid. There are few windows, lots of artificial lighting, and the circulation within the building sometimes sucks. However after spending a few months in the building it feels like home. (Never thought I would say that about a building that looks like its straight from a George Lucas set.. )
I'm a 2L. It hasn't grown on me one bit. I actually went from ambivalence about the building to strong dislike. At this rate, I'll outright hate it by April.
Does your hate with Boyd correlate with your growing hate for law school?
No, my semester is really easy, so I don't mind school.

Sounds like our 3 class 1L first semester.

shredderrrrrr · Post by **shredderrrrrr** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 4:46 pm

Sebastian: I completely understand and appreciate your argument. It is the first logical reason why actually drinking can make a difference. While I think the consequences of not drinking can potentially be mitigated, the perceptions it creates are important to keep in mind. I suppose I can be overly judgmental with some drinkers, so it makes sense that drinkers judge non-drinkers. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not the type to get pissed off when people break out the alcohol and start drinking, i just hate the sloppy drunken nonsense (which I'm sure is an issue moreso with college rather than a professional setting). Alcohol with dinner, or something of the sort, is not a big deal at all. Nevertheless, I really should work on it. Thanks for the helping me out!

Unless there are really strong reasons for not drinking, Sebastian's anecdote makes sense. Maybe it's worth learning to drink a glass of wine with dinner, or how to order a scotch. Drinking one or two drinks socially is not the same as getting hammered and streaking through the quad.

That is an important distinction. My complaints are with the latter form of drinkers rather than the former. And I think your comments about ordering a drink with dinner make a lot of sense.

Glad we got that all taken care of!

apeopleshistory · Post by **apeopleshistory** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 6:51 pm

neeko · Post by **neeko** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:01 pm

There is a lot of herpderp in this thread today.

Someone tl;dr it for me? Did I miss anything important?

typ3 · Post by **typ3** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 7:19 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:Sebastian: I completely understand and appreciate your argument. It is the first logical reason why actually drinking can make a difference. While I think the consequences of not drinking can potentially be mitigated, the perceptions it creates are important to keep in mind. I suppose I can be overly judgmental with some drinkers, so it makes sense that drinkers judge non-drinkers. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not the type to get pissed off when people break out the alcohol and start drinking, i just hate the sloppy drunken nonsense (which I'm sure is an issue moreso with college rather than a professional setting). Alcohol with dinner, or something of the sort, is not a big deal at all. Nevertheless, I really should work on it. Thanks for the helping me out!

Unless there are really strong reasons for not drinking, Sebastian's anecdote makes sense. Maybe it's worth learning to drink a glass of wine with dinner, or how to order a scotch. Drinking one or two drinks socially is not the same as getting hammered and streaking through the quad.
That is an important distinction. My complaints are with the latter form of drinkers rather than the former. And I think your comments about ordering a drink with dinner make a lot of sense.

Glad we got that all taken care of!

It can be just as bad if not worse in law school. Law school is like high school with booze.

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/10/william- ... t=FaceBook
http://abovethelaw.com/2011/02/drunk-an ... -law-prom/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mdHHtMRldo

Opie · Post by **Opie** » Tue Nov 22, 2011 8:51 pm

And Iowa already has a reputation as a party school.

chrisbru · Post by **chrisbru** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 2:44 am

neeko wrote:There is a lot of herpderp in this thread today.

Someone tl;dr it for me? Did I miss anything important?

One guy has never drink or been to a bar except to see live music. People gave him shit, he rebutted, repeat, repeat, repeat. Banter trying to justify our alcoholism. The end.

typ3 wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mdHHtMRldo

This video is hilarious.

Opie wrote:And Iowa already has a reputation as a party school.

NUMBER FOUR BABY!

sebastian0622 · Post by **sebastian0622** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:07 am

shredderrrrrr wrote:Sebastian: I completely understand and appreciate your argument. It is the first logical reason why actually drinking can make a difference. While I think the consequences of not drinking can potentially be mitigated, the perceptions it creates are important to keep in mind. I suppose I can be overly judgmental with some drinkers, so it makes sense that drinkers judge non-drinkers. Don't get me wrong though. I'm not the type to get pissed off when people break out the alcohol and start drinking, i just hate the sloppy drunken nonsense (which I'm sure is an issue moreso with college rather than a professional setting). Alcohol with dinner, or something of the sort, is not a big deal at all. Nevertheless, I really should work on it. Thanks for the helping me out!

Unless there are really strong reasons for not drinking, Sebastian's anecdote makes sense. Maybe it's worth learning to drink a glass of wine with dinner, or how to order a scotch. Drinking one or two drinks socially is not the same as getting hammered and streaking through the quad.
That is an important distinction. My complaints are with the latter form of drinkers rather than the former. And I think your comments about ordering a drink with dinner make a lot of sense.

Glad we got that all taken care of!

No problem man, I've enjoyed the conversation. You'll see some sloppy drunkenness in law school, just less than undergrad. And you might see some in the professional world, but less than law school. Casual drinkers (e.g. people who can hold their liquor) are annoyed by sloppy drunks too.

Opie · Post by **Opie** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 3:38 pm

Well, it's looking doubtful that we'll get any movement this week. Any predictions? I'm thinking first Monday of December.

shredderrrrrr · Post by **shredderrrrrr** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 4:51 pm

Well, it's looking doubtful that we'll get any movement this week. Any predictions? I'm thinking first Monday of December.

Why not Mon. the 28th? Am I just being too optimistic?

Opie · Post by **Opie** » Wed Nov 23, 2011 5:04 pm

shredderrrrrr wrote:
Well, it's looking doubtful that we'll get any movement this week. Any predictions? I'm thinking first Monday of December.
Why not Mon. the 28th? Am I just being too optimistic?

I think I read somewhere that the committee meets on Saturdays. I'm assuming that they'll take this Saturday off.

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