Michigan c/o 2015 Applicants (2011-2012 cycle) Forum

[03121202698008]

Edit: I agree out website isn't that bad. What were you looking for that you didn't find? Part of the problem may be that it's set up more for current students than admits.

Thanks! This is really helpful.

Yes, the website isn't that bad, but it is totally set up for current students IMO. I am sure it has a lot of info. Its the navigation that is tricky for me. Some pages have 18 or so tabs on the left, none of which pertain to me. I didn't get the PI heavy interest reading through alot of the information either. I just gave it a cursory look last night and found it difficult to sift through the overload of options. I plan to revisit tonight.

Eh, everything I wrote is on the prospective students/JD Admissions page. I'm sure part of it is seeing if you actually take the time to research. If you go through all of the prospective student tabs, you'd have a pretty clear picture of the school.

[freestallion]

I found the website to be really helpful, on the contrary. Especially all this info convinced me to apply and made a GREAT case for Michigan, IMO:
http://www.law.umich.edu/prospectivestu ... sions.aspx

* Michigan’s Legal Practice Program will mold you into an excellent legal researcher and writer by the end of your 1L year. Full-time faculty, not adjuncts or fellow students, will meet with you one-on-one to give meaningful feedback on your work. Employers report that Michigan students reliably deliver high-quality research and drafting in their first summer jobs, performing as well as or better than 2Ls and recent grads from other schools. Want specialized expertise? Michigan offers upper-level writing courses in transactional drafting, negotiation, appellate practice, bankruptcy, dispute resolution, and securities regulation; most schools offer no upper-level writing instruction at all.

* In our 12 different clinical programs, doing both transactional and litigation work, you can represent real clients beginning in your 2L year, allowed by law in only one other state. Under court rules in 48 states, only 3L students can represent clients in court; 2Ls who participate in clinics at most other schools can have only research and supporting roles. At Michigan, you can get an early start working with clients, and you’ll have time to try out more than one practice area, or take an advanced clinic to work on more complex cases. Hands-on experience in high-profile clinics tackling issues as diverse as exonerations for the wrongly accused, human trafficking, and micro-lending is useful training for a wide variety of career paths.

* In a recent survey by New York Law Journal, 70% of employers surveyed said they think law schools should focus more on transnational studies and offer study-abroad opportunities. Michigan was the first top law school to require that all students study transnational law, and our opportunities to study and work abroad are unparalleled. Michigan students can spend a semester-long externship at one of 18 international agencies in Geneva, research European Union legal issues at the European University Institute in Florence, or spend a semester at Waseda University Law School in Tokyo, to name only a few.

* In the same survey, every single responding employer said they’d like law grads to have a better understanding of the practice of law as a business. Michigan offers several courses to help you do just that: sign up for Law Firms and Legal Careers to gain understanding of law firm management, from profitability and marketing to governance and partnership considerations; learn how to read corporate financial statements in Accounting for Lawyers; or take one of our more specialized courses on the Law and Management of IP Organizations, In-House Counsel, the Law of Managing Money, and more. Or walk across the street to the world-famous Ross School of Business, and consider a completely different array of possibilities!

* Which leads nicely to this point: Michigan Law is unusually interdisciplinary among top law schools. Thirteen professors hold joint appointments in other schools or departments, and both their colleagues and the curriculum are enriched by this diverse expertise. Law students may take up to 12 credits of coursework throughout the University of Michigan’s other excellent graduate programs, or participate in one of 14 established dual degree programs (or create your own). Law doesn’t arise in a vacuum; it arises in the context of a multiplicity of settings, each with its own distinct influences and assumptions. Learning how to approach legal problems through the lens of diverse intellectual and professional perspectives is key to success as an advocate and counselor.

You’ll have the connections you need to find and land the job you want, where you want.

* In the past five years, Michigan graduates have gone to an average of 31 states each year. It is rare for a law school to be so truly national, and it means that no matter what employment market you are interested in, you are likely to find a significant number of Michigan Law alumni to connect with.

* For those who plan to work in the public interest, enrolling at Michigan Law means becoming part of an impressive tradition. Whether it’s government service at the highest levels or nonprofit work in the trenches, our graduates pursue important paths in the public sector. Michigan graduates one of the largest percentages among top schools for people going into public interest or government work—on average, 10%—and is one of only 3 law schools whose graduates have received a coveted Skadden Fellowship each year for the past 10 years (not to mention the almost 60 graduates who have earned other prestigious post-graduate public interest fellowships since 2007 alone). Our voluntary Pro Bono Pledge ensures that interested students get exposed to relevant work and start building their network at an early stage, and the considerable funding we provide (through our post-graduate Debt Management Program, our 2L Public Service Guarantee, and institutional support for 1L Student Funded Fellowships) means tangible financial aid to allow students to seek employment in these lower-paying fields.

* If you’re planning a career in academia, you will receive additional support: a faculty member will review your CV, which will then be included in a CV book sent to hiring committees at schools across the country, and you can participate in our annual Michigan Aspiring Academics Camp where you can practice your job talk in front of faculty and alumni. You’ll also be in good company, as Michigan Law counts among its alums more than 309 current law professors, ranking 3rd out of all law schools, and consistently places in the top five for the number of new tenure-track hires each year.

[MumofCad]

Eh, everything I wrote is on the prospective students/JD Admissions page. I'm sure part of it is seeing if you actually take the time to research. If you go through all of the prospective student tabs, you'd have a pretty clear picture of the school.

Yeah, I've just started looking into it. Its not on my original list of schools and I just started considering it a few days ago. I've got good reasons for the rest of the schools, but this is my last one to get acquainted with. I'll click through more tonight when the kids are in bed. I think what initially turned me off was the historical page you get when you click "about" the school. This one: http://www.law.umich.edu/historyandtrad ... fault.aspx

When I think "about," I'm expecting some of the current information you just gave. I was a little thrown by the facts given - like I'm interested in it being an international law school, but I am given an example of admitting Japanese students in 1871. Then on the tabs I've got a bunch more history, listings of the SC Justices, etc. Then across the top I have tabs with things like students that list with photographs the students from each graduating class, etc. Clearly, I took the wrong path to the useful information for prospective applicants lol. Should have looked at the tabs on the left, not across the top. But that's what I mean by its a little difficult to navigate. Once you take that wrong step, you actually have to back-track through your browser to get back on the right track. The left tabs like prospective students disappear, and it takes a little to figure that out that you had initial options that you missed with your first wrong choice and that the new left tabs you have are actually different from the initial ones that are more in-line with what you are looking for.

[MumofCad]

I found the website to be really helpful, on the contrary. Especially all this info convinced me to apply and made a GREAT case for Michigan, IMO:
http://www.law.umich.edu/prospectivestu ... sions.aspx

Yeah, I knew it had to have something more applicable to prospective students. This stuff is great. I'll look through it tonight. I didn't realize last night that I had gotten off track with my first wrong click. You go down that wrong track and you start wondering if you are going to have to visit to get information about the school. If I was creating the webpage, I would flip the top highlighted tabs with the ones along the left side which are small and hard to notice on a tablet computer (they are actually positioned off screen on my computer). I would also assume traffic-wise that they apply to 90% of the people visiting the site versus the very few who will be looking for historical facts about the law school.

Oh and I'm not stressing over the cycle. Just trying to look thoroughly into and really consider every law school. I'm not going to share on here which school, but before really starting my research I had one of the top 3 in my head as "the" school for me. Since talking to alum, looking at its offerings, etc. it is now last among the top 3. I'm not sure if it was the one of the three I got into, whether I would choose it over some lower-ranked T-14s with significant cash that were a better fit for me KWIM? I just want to make sure I get all my bases covered and put in strong applications to all of the places I am seriously considering going, so I can put it all together next spring. I don't want to miss out on a great school!

[sanguar]

Hi MumofCad!

I'm posting from my husband's account (he's starting at UMich in just under two weeks). I'm finding that doing a lot of reading and research was very important to insure the law school he chose to attend was the best for our family all-around. Michigan fit pretty well for us as we already lived close by, have family near, and I didn't have to leave my job, even if I now have to commute.

I must say I agree with you on the website. The info is all there, but I end up hitting the back button most of the time to get around when those side menus disappear. I did a lot of reading on the various school sites we were exploring. The UC's are awful.

We bought a house in Ann Arbor in early July and have been enjoying exploring the city so far. We have two children--2 and 3 years old--and have found it all very family friendly. I agree with you on NYC. I lived there for a year right out of undergrad and DH did for two years for his first MA. He didn't even apply to a few schools just based on geography.

We're "older" as well--both 29, though I don't feel all that old. So far the other students he's met have been pretty amazing---PhD's, MA. Peace Corps, Non-profits, etc., etc...

It's very different trying to make these decisions when there's an entire family to consider. Another point in Ann Arbor's favor was the affordability of a house. It was cheaper for us to buy than rent for our family size and needs. School district was also a factor.

I must say I'm pretty jealous of everyone with the opportunity to head to such a great school. The only place my LSAT would get me is a TTTT.

[Yeshia90]

So how long are these optionals supposed to be? One page single-spaced, or double?

[MumofCad]

Hi MumofCad!

I'm posting from my husband's account (he's starting at UMich in just under two weeks). I'm finding that doing a lot of reading and research was very important to insure the law school he chose to attend was the best for our family all-around. Michigan fit pretty well for us as we already lived close by, have family near, and I didn't have to leave my job, even if I now have to commute.

I must say I agree with you on the website. The info is all there, but I end up hitting the back button most of the time to get around when those side menus disappear. I did a lot of reading on the various school sites we were exploring. The UC's are awful.

We bought a house in Ann Arbor in early July and have been enjoying exploring the city so far. We have two children--2 and 3 years old--and have found it all very family friendly. I agree with you on NYC. I lived there for a year right out of undergrad and DH did for two years for his first MA. He didn't even apply to a few schools just based on geography.

We're "older" as well--both 29, though I don't feel all that old. So far the other students he's met have been pretty amazing---PhD's, MA. Peace Corps, Non-profits, etc., etc...

It's very different trying to make these decisions when there's an entire family to consider. Another point in Ann Arbor's favor was the affordability of a house. It was cheaper for us to buy than rent for our family size and needs. School district was also a factor.

I must say I'm pretty jealous of everyone with the opportunity to head to such a great school. The only place my LSAT would get me is a TTTT.

Thanks so much for sharing your perspective! Its hard to find families that have made this leap. People without children have such certain ideas about how easy these decisions should be, and I remember having such self-assured ideas too back before I was actually a mother. I learned to weigh these issues carefully when I won my Marshall scholarship and saw how radically different the experience was for those who were single moving into downtown London schools and those of us scrambling to find something, anything, hours from our schools that we could afford to settle in with our respective others. Blah. Not doing that again in New York with 2 young children (we have a 4 year old and 2 year old and another on the way). So yes, school districts and affordable housing is important for us too (Palo Alto and Cambridge, MA housing can make your eyes bleed lol). So is finding work for my husband! I need to have options!

Glad to know Michigan attracts other "oldies." It cracks me up to consider myself old for anything! I jokingly told my friend who is 40 that law school may send me into a mid-life crisis, and she scoffed, "What are you only planning to live till 60?" Hahaha.

[descartesb4thehorse]

Sorry mumofcad, I was sleeping all day and missed your q. Seems like loads of people jumped up though.

tbh, if I wasn't sure about Michigan when I got the call, I was within the next 24 hours. I really only have acquaintances there now, no one I would call a close friend or even a friend really, although a few are on my fb friends list. And they all came out of the woodwork when I posted a status update about it. It wasn't just that they did that not having talked to me in 2-3 years, though, but they were all so forthcoming and offered me any help I'd need in making my decision, etc. Not to say that Michigan isn't competitive, but I just got the impression that it's a very - as another poster put it - collegial type of competitiveness. I think a lot of people get the impression that the lower in the rankings you go, the easier it is to get top 1% because your competition is less stiff. However, it seems to me (and being a 0L, obviously take no stock in my opinion as fact) that at Michigan and some of the tippy-top law schools, there's still competition, but there's also the idea that there are jobs to be had for most of the class, and a lot of people aren't just gunning for biglaw, but they want to do clerkships or a number of different things so it almost seems to lessen the pressure? I have friends at TTTs and they have to gun for top 10% to have any shot at a legal job. It seems like at the higher ranking institutions, it would be great to be top 10% and there's a lot of people trying to get there, but if you're top 25% it's not dismal, and even top 50% means you'll just have to put in a little more effort in your job search than the others.

I suppose none of this is entirely unique to Michigan, as it can be said about most of the top schools. I guess I also felt more comfortable about going sticker to Michigan because the COL loans aren't going to be as painful as they are in NY or Chi. In fact, with the depressed real estate market, my mom has talked with me about actually buying a condo as opposed to renting. My SO was a bit hesitant when I told him about it because he wanted to live in NY or Chi because it will be easier for him to find a job in one of those places. (He's going to be switching careers since he works in UK gov't now, and when he moves to the States with me, he's going to try to get into IT.) He's really happy for me though (he said all of the mums in his office were comparing A-Level results of their kids today and he mentioned how I'm going to Michigan... don't think any of them really knew what it meant, but it was cute nonetheless) so I think these were fears that would have come out no matter where I moved.

On a personal level, I am one of those people aspiring for the elusive international law, but by that I just mean getting to move back to the UK with my SO so we can live near his family and our friends. (All of my college friends dispersed after UG, so I'd say I have more close friends in London proper than any other city in the world - NY is a close second). Harvard and Columbia would give me the best crack at this because they have English dual-degrees, but I am in no way getting into Harvard and probably not getting into CLS without a retake, either. I think NYU would open up international law as a concept better, but probably not England specifically, and Michigan has great externships and study abroad opportunities that I'm pretty excited about. *insert crack about bird law here*

And lastly, Michigan has a highly-derided feminist scholar on tenure who I've admired for quite some time. In fact, I love pretty much all highly-derided feminists the world over. It's hard for me to like anyone who isn't hated by a ton of people. That's my personal connection with the UM faculty, but they have so many that I think if you do some research, you'll find someone that you're equally excited to study with. That was like 90% of my LOCI if I remember correctly.

If you want me to look over your Why Mich, I have suddenly come into some free time, so don't be afraid to share! I'm not in competition anymore, so I promise to be fair and brutal.

[MumofCad]

If you want me to look over your Why Mich, I have suddenly come into some free time, so don't be afraid to share! I'm not in competition anymore, so I promise to be fair and brutal.

Thanks for such a thorough answer and the offer! If I can get my 4 year old to stop begging to cuddle every night, I might get on with this in the next few minutes and hopefully have something by the end of the weekend.

What brought you to the UK? I did my masters at Uni of London- SOAS and should be finishing my PhD this spring at St. Andrews. So we lived in the UK for several years. Our son was actually born in the UK, with all my pre-natal done at Elizabeth Gaskill in downtown London. It was a very interesting experience versus having my daughter here in the States. Michigan will certainly be a change of pace from London, but the COL is a huge factor. The debt from law school is high enough with just tuition costs.

My husband is in IT. Its still a fairly good field to be in during the downturn. We came back to the US right after the financial collapse when jobs were shedding, and he had several offers within weeks. Of course, that was DC. I am hoping his current employer will let him telecommute while they replace him to give us some flexibility. And of course that I might get lucky and hear earlier one way or the other from my top choices. It would be nice to have 8 months to re-locate rather than having to relocate in 3 months and being up in the air for 5 months.

[JamMasterJ]

Sorry mumofcad, I was sleeping all day and missed your q. Seems like loads of people jumped up though.

tbh, if I wasn't sure about Michigan when I got the call, I was within the next 24 hours. I really only have acquaintances there now, no one I would call a close friend or even a friend really, although a few are on my fb friends list. And they all came out of the woodwork when I posted a status update about it. It wasn't just that they did that not having talked to me in 2-3 years, though, but they were all so forthcoming and offered me any help I'd need in making my decision, etc. Not to say that Michigan isn't competitive, but I just got the impression that it's a very - as another poster put it - collegial type of competitiveness. I think a lot of people get the impression that the lower in the rankings you go, the easier it is to get top 1% because your competition is less stiff. However, it seems to me (and being a 0L, obviously take no stock in my opinion as fact) that at Michigan and some of the tippy-top law schools, there's still competition, but there's also the idea that there are jobs to be had for most of the class, and a lot of people aren't just gunning for biglaw, but they want to do clerkships or a number of different things so it almost seems to lessen the pressure? I have friends at TTTs and they have to gun for top 10% to have any shot at a legal job. It seems like at the higher ranking institutions, it would be great to be top 10% and there's a lot of people trying to get there, but if you're top 25% it's not dismal, and even top 50% means you'll just have to put in a little more effort in your job search than the others.

I suppose none of this is entirely unique to Michigan, as it can be said about most of the top schools. I guess I also felt more comfortable about going sticker to Michigan because the COL loans aren't going to be as painful as they are in NY or Chi. In fact, with the depressed real estate market, my mom has talked with me about actually buying a condo as opposed to renting. My SO was a bit hesitant when I told him about it because he wanted to live in NY or Chi because it will be easier for him to find a job in one of those places. (He's going to be switching careers since he works in UK gov't now, and when he moves to the States with me, he's going to try to get into IT.) He's really happy for me though (he said all of the mums in his office were comparing A-Level results of their kids today and he mentioned how I'm going to Michigan... don't think any of them really knew what it meant, but it was cute nonetheless) so I think these were fears that would have come out no matter where I moved.

On a personal level, I am one of those people aspiring for the elusive international law, but by that I just mean getting to move back to the UK with my SO so we can live near his family and our friends. (All of my college friends dispersed after UG, so I'd say I have more close friends in London proper than any other city in the world - NY is a close second). Harvard and Columbia would give me the best crack at this because they have English dual-degrees, but I am in no way getting into Harvard and probably not getting into CLS without a retake, either. I think NYU would open up international law as a concept better, but probably not England specifically, and Michigan has great externships and study abroad opportunities that I'm pretty excited about. *insert crack about bird law here*

And lastly, Michigan has a highly-derided feminist scholar on tenure who I've admired for quite some time. In fact, I love pretty much all highly-derided feminists the world over. It's hard for me to like anyone who isn't hated by a ton of people. That's my personal connection with the UM faculty, but they have so many that I think if you do some research, you'll find someone that you're equally excited to study with. That was like 90% of my LOCI if I remember correctly.

If you want me to look over your Why Mich, I have suddenly come into some free time, so don't be afraid to share! I'm not in competition anymore, so I promise to be fair and brutal.

can I just quote your post verbatim as my Why Mich? But really, that sounds so cool and I may be hitting you up for a Why Mich review in October if your up for it

[descartesb4thehorse]

can I just quote your post verbatim as my Why Mich? But really, that sounds so cool and I may be hitting you up for a Why Mich review in October if your up for it

JMJ, I'll be offended if you don't send me your Why Mich.

[JamMasterJ]

can I just quote your post verbatim as my Why Mich? But really, that sounds so cool and I may be hitting you up for a Why Mich review in October if your up for it

JMJ, I'll be offended if you don't send me your Why Mich.

sounds good, and have fun with not having to do a cycle

[Yeshia90]

So how long are these optionals supposed to be? One page single-spaced, or double?

bump.

[Tiago Splitter]

In this thread,

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8&t=126048

Bildungsroman says one page, double spaced. I tend to agree, since the PS is typically two pages double-spaced.

Edit: Also: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=1950

Poster says he called the office and they said he could go down to 1.5 spacing if necessary.

[JamMasterJ]

In this thread,

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 8&t=126048

Bildungsroman says one page, double spaced. I tend to agree, since the PS is typically two pages double-spaced.

Edit: Also: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... start=1950

Poster says he called the office and they said he could go down to 1.5 spacing if necessary.

where are you applying Tiago?

[Tiago Splitter]

Most of Columbia to USC, with maybe a token app to Harvard to satisfy my curiosity. Not a fan of the cold weather but probably gonna have to suck it up for law school.

[JamMasterJ]

Most of Columbia to USC, with maybe a token app to Harvard to satisfy my curiosity. Not a fan of the cold weather but probably gonna have to suck it up for law school.

You will end up at CCN

[Tiago Splitter]

Most of Columbia to USC, with maybe a token app to Harvard to satisfy my curiosity. Not a fan of the cold weather but probably gonna have to suck it up for law school.

You will end up at CCN

I think so too but when the rubbers hit the road and the scholarship cash is laid out there, the decision might not be that easy.

[Yeshia90]

Most of Columbia to USC, with maybe a token app to Harvard to satisfy my curiosity. Not a fan of the cold weather but probably gonna have to suck it up for law school.

You will end up at CCN

Seriously. If you don't, then I shouldn't bother applying.

[JamMasterJ]

Most of Columbia to USC, with maybe a token app to Harvard to satisfy my curiosity. Not a fan of the cold weather but probably gonna have to suck it up for law school.

You will end up at CCN

I think so too but when the rubbers hit the road and the scholarship cash is laid out there, the decision might not be that easy.

umm...?

[Tiago Splitter]

Most of Columbia to USC, with maybe a token app to Harvard to satisfy my curiosity. Not a fan of the cold weather but probably gonna have to suck it up for law school.

You will end up at CCN

I think so too but when the rubbers hit the road and the scholarship cash is laid out there, the decision might not be that easy.

umm...?

Have a few drinks and my pluralization gets all messed up. It happens.

[Entchen]

Does anyone know if summer starters are still eligible for Darrow?

Yes, I know of at least 3 (non-ED) summer starters who were offered Darrows.



As to the Why Michigan, mine basically said in the first sentence that it wasn't about academics -- there are a lot of good law schools out there, but it's the non-academic stuff (sense of community, summer start, college town atmosphere, etc.) that made it my first choice (and it was, honestly, my first choice for those reasons -- I turned down Columbia because I'm fairly certain I would have been really unhappy there, and didn't even apply to Chicago/NYU).

Also, I have ZERO PI background. At all. In between college and law school, I worked at a law firm. During my summers in undergrad, I did internships at a publishing company and translating at a museum. I also made if fairly clear in my PS that I was interested in law for the process, not the results. None of this appears to have hurt me.


ETA: Good luck, '15s! Feel free to PM me if you have any questions.

[lsatisevil]

Do we know how many people apply ED on average?

[03121202698008]

Do we know how many people apply ED on average?

Not very many and it's absolutely no benefit at Michigan. Dean Z has a blog entry discussing how she hates the practice at other schools.

[chem]

Checking in