Advice for Calling the Dean of Admissions Forum

[AVBucks4239]

I am currently on the waitlist at Case Western. My numbers are right where they need to be, but as the days go by, it is becoming less and less likely that I actually get off the waitlist.

With that said, however, I was fortunate enough to get the Dean of Admission's number. I am incredibly nervous about calling her personally so I would like some advice.

So, if you are trying to get to get off the waitlist by calling the dean of admissions, what are the do's and do nots?

Should you let them know that you would unequivocally attend if they pick you off the waitlist?
Should you ask how many seats are over-deposited?
Should you ask for your odds of getting in this year?

Any others?

Thanks in advance,
AVB

[03121202698008]

How did you get her number? Unless she (or her asst) gave it to you specifically so you could call...not a good idea at all. Not one of your ideas is something I would tell the Dean of Admissions. Write that in a LOCI and let the cards fall where they may.

[3ThrowAway99]

EDIT: after further consideration I have changed my position on this (I do now agree that given it is the Dean and not just an assistant dean it is probably not appropriate to call about this).

[3ThrowAway99]

...

[03121202698008]

How did you get her number? Unless she (or her asst) gave it to you specifically so you could call...not a good idea at all. Not one of your ideas is something I would tell the Dean of Admissions. Write that in a LOCI and let the cards fall where they may.

I disagree with this (obviously if you read my post, but still thought it was worth directly addressing). I just don't see the call causing a problem unless you were really rude in the process.

Do you have any ideas how many calls they get every day asking this exact same question? Deans are busy people and not normally the one who makes the decision anyhow. It is usually a committee. I think it will destroy any chance he/she had of getting off the waitlist.

I was fortunate enough to meet and talk to a few Adcomms AFTER being admitted. Each time was at their request and usually in response to my resume or to discuss schollys. Two of them received one of these calls/emails in my presence, got the person off the line while looking visibly pissed off, and then wrote the persons name on a notepad. One Dean in particular (who I won't identify since it was basically said in confidence) voiced how much he hates people trying to end-run the system and how much it makes him NOT want to admit them.

If you read any of the admissions blogs such as Dean Z's at Michigan...you get the impression they really hate this.

Anyone still riding a waitlist at this point fits every one of the points the OP considered saying...

[AVBucks4239]

These radically different opinions are making me pretty apprehensive about calling, haha.

[kalvano]

Don't call someone who is busy doing other stuff and can't do much to help you anyway.

Calling and pissing him/her off will not help you.

[03121202698008]

Don't call someone who is busy doing other stuff and can't do much to help you anyway.

Calling and pissing him/her off will not help you.

This is my point. If you had something life-changing to say...maybe. As in, just wanted to let you know the President just asked Congress to give me a medal... Or even, my published graduate dissertation was just foot-noted in a Supreme Court decision and Chief Justice Roberts mentioned that it was a life-changing read in his concurring opinion.

[AVBucks4239]

I edited the original post to include a poll. All of your opinions are greatly appreciated, no matter how different they are.

Thanks,
AVB

[03121202698008]

I edited the original post to include a poll. All of your opinions are greatly appreciated, no matter how different they are.

Thanks,
AVB

The problem is, your poll assumes that calling could in any way help you get off the waitlist. Maybe add that as an option.

[AVBucks4239]

I edited the original post to include a poll. All of your opinions are greatly appreciated, no matter how different they are.

Thanks,
AVB

Edit...think I took care of it.

[lsathelp]

I did this and got accepted off the waitlist with half tuition scholarship. My numbers were a little below thier median. In the acceptance email she mentioned my interest in the school and that they appreciate it. It was a very quick call, I told her as eloquently as possible how much I'm interested in the school and that I would accept an offer without hesitation,she explained that the class was full but that she appreciated my call and will make a note of it on my file. I refuse to believe that a dean would reject you because you call once to emphasize just how much your interested in the school. OP it's up to you.

[03121202698008]

I did this and got accepted off the waitlist with half tuition scholarship. My numbers were a little below thier median. In the acceptance email she mentioned my interest in the school and that they appreciate it. It was a very quick call, I told her as eloquently as possible how much I'm interested in the school and that I would accept an offer without hesitation,she explained that the class was full but that she appreciated my call and will make a note of it on my file. I refuse to believe that a dean would reject you because you call once to emphasize just how much your interested in the school. OP it's up to you.

Was it this late in the game though? 2 months ago says you waitlisted me but I really like your school. Now seems desperate...begging them to admit you even though they are likely already over-enrolled and not touching the WL.

[lsathelp]

I did this and got accepted off the waitlist with half tuition scholarship. My numbers were a little below thier median. In the acceptance email she mentioned my interest in the school and that they appreciate it. It was a very quick call, I told her as eloquently as possible how much I'm interested in the school and that I would accept an offer without hesitation,she explained that the class was full but that she appreciated my call and will make a note of it on my file. I refuse to believe that a dean would reject you because you call once to emphasize just how much your interested in the school. OP it's up to you.

Was it this late in the game though? 2 months ago says you waitlisted me but I really like your school. Now seems desperate...begging them to admit you even though they are likely already over-enrolled and not touching the WL.

Credited. I got wailisted in April i believe and got accepted in June.

[northwood]

its too late in the game to let them know that you would accept and are itching to go. You will come off as desperate, and worse, be a pain. If you really want to go to that school, call an admissions person and ask for their opinions on how to make your applicaiotn stand out. then do what they say. Tell the admissions rep that you will be re applying ( if its lsat, or personal statement, or you have done some volunteer work over the summer) and have it sent in as early as possible. Its Mid July, 4 weeks until the start of school. You still would have to find housing, move, get loans approved, find health insurance, and get all medical stuff taken care of. Thats not a lot of time, and you will be rushing the process.

Take the year, apply early again, and spend next may apartment hunting.

[knsmdjd]

its too late in the game to let them know that you would accept and are itching to go. You will come off as desperate, and worse, be a pain....Its Mid July, 4 weeks until the start of school. You still would have to find housing, move, get loans approved, find health insurance, and get all medical stuff taken care of. Thats not a lot of time, and you will be rushing the process.

Take the year, apply early again, and spend next may apartment hunting.

I do not agree with this - I think that if you really want this school you should call and give some indication of how highly you favor them. A year is a long time to wait. Of course it would help if you had some sort of update to offer (like you were awarded some prestigious scholarship or you just finished three months of charity work abroad). I am in the same situation - I have been accepted to two schools and paid the deposit at one, but I am waiting to hear from the third because its my first choice. If they sent me an acceptance I would dump the other one immediately (even if I did have only a week or two to move). And I know that others are still being taken off of waitlists and forfeiting deposits - so there is still hope until classes start.

[lsathelp]

its too late in the game to let them know that you would accept and are itching to go. You will come off as desperate, and worse, be a pain....Its Mid July, 4 weeks until the start of school. You still would have to find housing, move, get loans approved, find health insurance, and get all medical stuff taken care of. Thats not a lot of time, and you will be rushing the process.

Take the year, apply early again, and spend next may apartment hunting.

I do not agree with this - I think that if you really want this school you should call and give some indication of how highly you favor them. A year is a long time to wait. Of course it would help if you had some sort of update to offer (like you were awarded some prestigious scholarship or you just finished three months of charity work abroad). I am in the same situation - I have been accepted to two schools and paid the deposit at one, but I am waiting to hear from the third because its my first choice. If they sent me an acceptance I would dump the other one immediately (even if I did have only a week or two to move). And I know that others are still being taken off of waitlists and forfeiting deposits - so there is still hope until classes start.

I agree. I dont see how calling once to express your interest will make you come off as desperate and be a pain. I did this with most of the schools that waitlisted me and have since received very favorable responses.

[03121202698008]

its too late in the game to let them know that you would accept and are itching to go. You will come off as desperate, and worse, be a pain....Its Mid July, 4 weeks until the start of school. You still would have to find housing, move, get loans approved, find health insurance, and get all medical stuff taken care of. Thats not a lot of time, and you will be rushing the process.

Take the year, apply early again, and spend next may apartment hunting.

I do not agree with this - I think that if you really want this school you should call and give some indication of how highly you favor them. A year is a long time to wait. Of course it would help if you had some sort of update to offer (like you were awarded some prestigious scholarship or you just finished three months of charity work abroad). I am in the same situation - I have been accepted to two schools and paid the deposit at one, but I am waiting to hear from the third because its my first choice. If they sent me an acceptance I would dump the other one immediately (even if I did have only a week or two to move). And I know that others are still being taken off of waitlists and forfeiting deposits - so there is still hope until classes start.

No offense...but you know shit about law school admissions.

[03121202698008]

its too late in the game to let them know that you would accept and are itching to go. You will come off as desperate, and worse, be a pain....Its Mid July, 4 weeks until the start of school. You still would have to find housing, move, get loans approved, find health insurance, and get all medical stuff taken care of. Thats not a lot of time, and you will be rushing the process.

Take the year, apply early again, and spend next may apartment hunting.

I do not agree with this - I think that if you really want this school you should call and give some indication of how highly you favor them. A year is a long time to wait. Of course it would help if you had some sort of update to offer (like you were awarded some prestigious scholarship or you just finished three months of charity work abroad). I am in the same situation - I have been accepted to two schools and paid the deposit at one, but I am waiting to hear from the third because its my first choice. If they sent me an acceptance I would dump the other one immediately (even if I did have only a week or two to move). And I know that others are still being taken off of waitlists and forfeiting deposits - so there is still hope until classes start.

I agree. I dont see how calling once to express your interest will make you come off as desperate and be a pain. I did this with most of the schools that waitlisted me and have since received very favorable responses.

OP isn't talking about calling the Admissions office (where you would generally express your interest) but calling the Dean directly. OP never answered how he/she got the dean's phone number. If it's not advertised, this is an even worse idea. At this point in the cycle, it's going to come off desperate.

[northwood]

calling the office is one thing.. calling the dean is another. Once you were waitilisted, calling hte office would be a good idea, as long as you call only once because it would portray the image that the school is number 1 on your list. Waiting a couple months after being notified that you were on the waitlist can portray yourself as being desperate. Calling the dean now makes you seem even more desperate. IF that is your top school, call admissions and ask them for how to make your application more attractive. Then re apply.

How others perceive you is a big thing, especially when its an admissions office. You dont want to come off as desperate, or whiney. ( its the same thing as when you call a firm trying to get an interview. Calling once soon after sending in your resume and application makes it seem that you are very intersted, but waiting a long time then calling makes you sound desperate to get in anywhere)

I'm not in admissions, but I am oin the hiring committee at the company where I currently work.

[3ThrowAway99]

This has been an interesting thread.. In further consideration, I think the proper answer to the question as a categorical imperative is 'no' (in that if everybody took the action in question it would have the undesirable result of flooding the Dean with calls that will probably just be a nuisance and won't really solve anything). I also think that calling the actual Dean about this (rather than an assistant dean of admissions) probably isn't really appropriate. I still somewhat doubt that the call would significantly hurt OP's chances (if the Dean is capricious enough to blacklist someone for a follow-up call about waitlist status that would concern me, unless the school explicitly forbid it or advised against it, which some schools- such as Yale and Michigan- do in fact warn against certain types of follow up calls); then again, I tend to be fairly impatient and fairly direct in my approach to dealing with these types of things (which isn't always helpful).

The one waitlist I got in my cycle I responded to on the same day by email saying that they should take me off, so I don't have experience trying to wait out a school I really want to go to but have been waitlisted at. I think there are some unanswered questions (such as where OP got the number and what the overall scenario of OPs application cycle looks like) that could have some bearing on whether OP may be able to afford some degree of risk with this particular school, but it is clear that the general consensus at this point is not to call the Dean and I think that is the best advice. I still cringe at the idea that adcomms would penalize someone for calling the school (even if it is annoying)- that just seems petty to me and not very professional. On the other hand I'm sure it can happen, and in this specific case OP is not just talking about calling a normal channel (e.g. assistant dean of admissions), but rather the Dean of the law school (which, again, for this matter probably is not really appropriate).

[AVBucks4239]

I never thought such minimal details would have such an impact (ignorant of me, I know). So here is the incredibly detailed version of my application history to Case Western...

I took the September LSAT and got a 152. I took the February test and got a 146 (no sleep at all). Immediately after the test, I applied to four schools: Capital, Ohio State, Case Western, and Cleveland State. I almost immediately heard from three of them--deferred by OSU, accepted into Capital, and waitlisted at CSU.

However, in mid-April, a Case Western adcomm contacted me and asked if I was planning on taking the June test. I had discussions with several adcomms and confirmed that they would put my application on hold until I received my June LSAT score. I called the law school and set up a tour with an adcomm to make sure I wasn't wasting my time taking the LSAT again. I felt like I made a good impression on them (well dressed, articulate, asked a lot of specific questions about the law school) and let them know that I would take the June test.

I took the June test and got a 158. That is one point below their median and my GPA is a 3.63, .25 above their median.

Four days after I got my score, I emailed an adcomm with this email:

Dr. XXXXXXX:
In late April, I was given a tour of the law school by Darlene Shuler. The tour was excellent and cemented Case Western Reserve University as my number one choice for law school. Although she could not guarantee anything, she encouraged me to take the June LSAT to improve my score.

I just received my June score and I earned a much improved 158.

I have no doubt that, if admitted, I will become a successful student and ambassador of the Case Western University School of Law. If accepted by the admissions staff, I will unequivocally accept and be a proud member of the Class of 2013.

Thank you for your time,
XXXX X XXXXXX

I got this email in reply:

XXXX XXXXXX:

Congratulations on improving your LSAT scores. Once we receive your formal scores from LSAT, your file will be completed. As all applicants were previously advised, we’re currently over-deposited, therefore at this point, applicants are either being denied or waitlisted. If waitlisted, there’s no guarantee if/when we’ll admit anyone from off our waitlist.

Sincerely,
XXXXXX X XXXXXXX
Assistant Dean of Admissions

Between now and then, I have sent a supplemental "Why Case?" essay (they encourage this a lot) and had a Letter of Recommendation sent to the law school.

I called about my status on July 16th and that day it changed to "Application Complete." Thus, I am not even technically on the waitlist.

Side note: I apologize for not being more clear about this in the original post. I have had to explain to so many non-law school people that the language of the OP was the only way they could understand it, and I stupidly used the same language for a board full of law school applicants.

I did all of the above because I received advice from several people (people attending the law school, accepted applicants to CW on this board, etc.) that the admissions office absolutely love people who really show why they want to attend Case Western. Now, after reading all of the back-and-forth in this thread, I really feel I may have made myself appear desperate.

So, with all of that said, do I call the Dean? And, do I have any chances whatsoever to get in?

[3ThrowAway99]

I don't think anyone can really say what your chances are given the somewhat unusual circumstances.. but I think waitlist-type situations are not usually very promising (and even less so predictable). However, you indicated that you may not even be on the waitlist, so in that sense you are just waiting for a primary decision with some special circumstances that are applicable...

Calling the Dean for this (and I know I changed my position on this) is probably not appropriate- however, continued follow up with law school staff who are assigned specifically to handle admissions may well be appropriate if done with tact.

[JusticeHarlan]

I voted no.

You already visited. What takes a greater effort, and thus proves a greater devotion: taking the time to physically go to the school, spend time there, etc, or just picking up the phone from home and calling? I can't see them giving extra points above and beyond what you've already demonstrated.

Continue to send regular LOCIs. You can even call the admissions office, if you have a burning desire to, and politely enquirer about how things are going there/if they have any indication of a timeline on when they might be able to move on the waitlist. You want your name to be on their minds if they have enough withdrawals to warrant going to the waitlist. But I don't think bypassing normal channels and bugging the dean will have the desired effect.

[03121202698008]

Wait, so you haven't even been waitlisted yet? This is called a stealth rejection. They are already sitting on a waitlist that is probably huge. If you haven't heard by now, you aren't going there. Sorry...